Discussion how do you know you've been saved by grace ..

[Alithis]

you will note i did not put a question mark on the end of the thread title ..its not a question from me or for me .
but some certainly need to ask it of themselves .

the answer is in the verse following the one about being saved by grace . that favorite one people love to quote and yet seldom read the words that follow it even though they are a continuation of it .


in simplicity- how do you know when you are saved by grace .. when you do the works .

yes i worded it for dramatic effect haha .

 

[4x4toy]

When you search for truth, hear the Word of the Lord, believe it and have faith in it that it is true itself then your faith becomes substance the instant you confess it with your mouth .. From there you may or may not waver but Jesus never will .. Works become in Jesus name from that point no longer in vain ..

 

[Alithis]

When you search for truth, hear the Word of the Lord, believe it and have faith in it that it is true itself then your faith becomes substance the instant you confess it with your mouth .. From there you may or may not waver but Jesus never will .. Works become in Jesus name from that point no longer in vain ..

had to read that twice haha ..but well put . the works are no longer in vain .
im wondering if any one will post that verse in question

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

James puts it well. He says that if one says that he has faith, then he shows his faith by what he does. The Word is quite clear that we are saved by grace through faith. But we stop doing the works of the flesh as shown in Galatians 5 and show that we are truly converted to Christ by showing the development of the fruit of the Spirit shown in the same chapter. So we are saved through the grace of God, but we show that we are saved by the change of behaviour that happens in us. It is not an outward set of rules that brings about the change, but it flows out from the new heart that has been formed in us. If a professing Christian is still doing the works of the flesh, then that could be an indication that he is not truly converted and therefore does not have that new heart in him.

 

[faroukfarouk]

James puts it well. He says that if one says that he has faith, then he shows his faith by what he does. The Word is quite clear that we are saved by grace through faith. But we stop doing the works of the flesh as shown in Galatians 5 and show that we are truly converted to Christ by showing the development of the fruit of the Spirit shown in the same chapter. So we are saved through the grace of God, but we show that we are saved by the change of behaviour that happens in us. It is not an outward set of rules that brings about the change, but it flows out from the new heart that has been formed in us. If a professing Christian is still doing the works of the flesh, then that could be an indication that he is not truly converted and therefore does not have that new heart in him.

Yes, I would agree that the fruit of the Spirit - as well as sound doctrine - is an indicator of the indwelling of the Spirit.

The Lord Jesus said: 'By their fruits ye shall know them' (Matthew 7.16, 20).

 

[Alithis]

James puts it well. He says that if one says that he has faith, then he shows his faith by what he does. The Word is quite clear that we are saved by grace through faith. But we stop doing the works of the flesh as shown in Galatians 5 and show that we are truly converted to Christ by showing the development of the fruit of the Spirit shown in the same chapter. So we are saved through the grace of God, but we show that we are saved by the change of behaviour that happens in us. It is not an outward set of rules that brings about the change, but it flows out from the new heart that has been formed in us. If a professing Christian is still doing the works of the flesh, then that could be an indication that he is not truly converted and therefore does not have that new heart in him.

Yup,
Often if people get hung up on the Word works from Jacob (james) I get them ,just for clarity of point,to insert the Word 'action" for works.

Ie .."I will show you my faith by my actions... '

People see it clearer then . for me ,faith ,is acting like what you say you believe is actually true.

 

[Alithis]

We are saved by Grace.. Unto good works which God has before ordained that we should walk in them.
So I'f we are not walking in those works .. We are not yet saved by Grace .
Which is sort of what Oscar said..reworded

 

[Geralt]

sanctification vindicates justification
justification results in sanctification.

or in simple terms, our re-creation (new nature) as children of God eventually results in likeness of God.

Eph 2:10 For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

When a person is truly converted to Christ, he or she gets filled with the Spirit. Then the actions of that person are described in 1 Corinthians 13 and the fruit of the Spirit in Galatians 5. These actions and attitudes are automatic outcomes of being saved and filled with the Spirit. If we see a person still getting drunk, being riotous, sleeping around, having angry rages, being jealous of others, envious of other's successes or status, then we can have a reasonable doubt that person is actually converted at all. They may be very religious, and such people have caused much discredit to the Christian Church over the centuries, because unbelievers do not have the discerning of spirits and therefore cannot tell the genuine from the false. They wouldn't know the difference between a genuinely converted Christian and one who is unconverted and controlled by a religious spirit. The religious spirit can be very deceptive because it can cause a person to be so close to being a genuine Christian that in severe cases only the gift of discerning of spirits could tell them apart. We have these religious spirits in all denominations, including Pentecostal and Charismatic, so just because a person says they are baptised with the Spirit and even speaks in tongues, it doesn't mean that they are not controlled and motivated by a religious spirit instead of the Holy Spirit. What we have to do is to look carefully at what comes out of that person and compare that with 1 Corinthians 13 and Galatians 5.

 

[Zayin7]

Faith without works ,which ' are action..is dead.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

We are saved by Grace.. Unto good works which God has before ordained that we should walk in them.
So I'f we are not walking in those works .. We are not yet saved by Grace .
Which is sort of what Oscar said..reworded

That's right, the good works that we do which replace the works of the flesh in us, are the evidence that we are saved by grace. We do the works by faith, believing that we are saved. Doing works through fear (and not faith) because we are afraid that we will be lost if we don't do them is the wrong motivation for doing good works and was not James' intention when he spoke about doing them.

 

[Zayin7]

That's right, the good works that we do which replace the works of the flesh in us, are the evidence that we are saved by grace. We do the works by faith, believing that we are saved. Doing works through fear (and not faith) because we are afraid that we will be lost if we don't do them is the wrong motivation for doing good works and was not James' intention when he spoke about doing them.

i think it is both love and fear - fear of god . some where much of the church has lost the fear of god .yet Jesus said FEAR him who hath power (the full right ,justice authority and just reason ) to cast the soul into hell fire .the love of god compels us forward unto good works the fear of god is our rear guard . we would be fools to not love god and fools to not fear him

 

[Alithis]

That's right, the good works that we do which replace the works of the flesh in us, are the evidence that we are saved by grace. We do the works by faith, believing that we are saved. Doing works through fear (and not faith) because we are afraid that we will be lost if we don't do them is the wrong motivation for doing good works and was not James' intention when he spoke about doing them.

Hmm yet if we are not doing them..what faith do we have ?none but a lip service.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I remember Repenting when 18 and later coming to know Christian teaching from Derek Prince. We repent because God apprehends us. Then if we die we go to Heaven. But if we live on, we must apprehend God in return. Or we can flounder in sin. We must be born again, receive the Holy Spirit, or Christ, and then we were saved, are being saved and will be saved.