How do you know if you are of the elect?

[Hammster]

I am asking this in here in hopes of avoiding some of the non-RT thinkers with whom I disagree about their methods.

I am not asking for a debate. I am genuinely curious about your views on this. I may ask some qualifying questions, but will really try to avoid debate.

Thanks,

Chris

 

[Drwhat]

Hi Hammster,
[Any parenthasis in this post is merely mine for emphasis].
Anyone proffessing that they believe in Christ Jesus as their saviour from sin are the 'called'. But only a few are ever chosen from the many 'called' Christians.

Mt 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen[the chosen of the called are the elect].
1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
The chosen elect are chosen by God to an early burning in His spiritual Lake of fire to prepare them for the millenial reign of Christ, this is nothing whatsoever to do with the chosens life style or works but rather everything to do with God's preordained plan. The chosen elect will have to leave the Orthodox Church as she is the harlot that rides the beast and we are the beast. So we have to dismount so to speak.

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her[the false church], my people[the chosen called out elect] that ye be not partakers of her sins[the false church of Babylon], and that ye receive not of her plagues[her false teachings about Christ].
The chosen elect become the christ's of The Christ and the true church of The Christ with him as the head, the whole bible can only ever hope to be understood properly by these chosen few, however much other's hate that fact, usually their lesser light Christian brothers and sistsers, it's a Joseph jealousy thing. The chosen are those who have the greater light over the lesser light 'called'. They have the coat of many colours which is God's truths.

Ge 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light[the true called and chosen church of Christ] to rule the day, and the lesser light[Orthodoxy] to rule the night: he made the stars also.

Anyone who is professing to be of he called out chosen elect of The Christ will definately not believe in the concept of free-will, because free-moral agency is directly against the soverignity of Almighty God and a chosen faithful Christian really believes that God is sovergn, over all, and not as the 'called' do just give that doctrine lip service.

Hope that helps a little. Amen

 

[heymikey80]

I am asking this in here in hopes of avoiding some of the non-RT thinkers with whom I disagree about their methods.

I am not asking for a debate. I am genuinely curious about your views on this. I may ask some qualifying questions, but will really try to avoid debate.

Thanks,

Chris

There're really three points of examination that Scripture holds out for assurance of salvation -- election is really a conclusion based on whether you have the faith that saves, and so it would be a conclusion based on your assurance of salvation.

First is the recognition of the fact. It's that realization that Christ will unfailingly ("infallibly") save you, once He's got you. (John 10, 1 Cor 15:1-2 and its contrary in 1 Cor 15:14).

The second is internal. You can look into your own thoughts and motives and see, "Why do I believe? Is this because I have some vain motive in hoping this is all true, however outlandish it all gets? Is it some pseudo-works system that I think is really still applicable, even though God Himself is saying that it isn't? Or is it something I can hang my hat on in reality, that 2000 years ago this Guy said what would need to happen to save us, then died and then got up out of the grave, and in consequence I had better pay attention to Him." (Heb 3)

The last is practical consistency. John (1 John 2:3, but really ... 1 John) and James (James 2) both say we can get so caught up in this intellectual exercise as to never really apply it, and that's not faith, that's death and deception. Paul also says this (1 Cor 15:2, 2 Cor 6:1). These were arguments against the dualism that said our spirituality didn't need to show itself in the physical world, a common idea among gnostics.

 

[Hammster]

Hi Hammster,
[Any parenthasis in this post is merely mine for emphasis].
Anyone proffessing that they believe in Christ Jesus as their saviour from sin are the 'called'. But only a few are ever chosen from the many 'called' Christians.

Mt 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen[the chosen of the called are the elect].
1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
The chosen elect are chosen by God to an early burning in His spiritual Lake of fire to prepare them for the millenial reign of Christ, this is nothing whatsoever to do with the chosens life style or works but rather everything to do with God's preordained plan. The chosen elect will have to leave the Orthodox Church as she is the harlot that rides the beast and we are the beast. So we have to dismount so to speak.

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her[the false church], my people[the chosen called out elect] that ye be not partakers of her sins[the false church of Babylon], and that ye receive not of her plagues[her false teachings about Christ].
The chosen elect become the christ's of The Christ and the true church of The Christ with him as the head, the whole bible can only ever hope to be understood properly by these chosen few, however much other's hate that fact, usually their lesser light Christian brothers and sistsers, it's a Joseph jealousy thing. The chosen are those who have the greater light over the lesser light 'called'. They have the coat of many colours which is God's truths.

Ge 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light[the true called and chosen church of Christ] to rule the day, and the lesser light[Orthodoxy] to rule the night: he made the stars also.

Anyone who is professing to be of he called out chosen elect of The Christ will definately not believe in the concept of free-will, because free-moral agency is directly against the soverignity of Almighty God and a chosen faithful Christian really believes that God is sovergn, over all, and not as the 'called' do just give that doctrine lip service.

Hope that helps a little. Amen

You said the the parenthesis were merely for emphasis. How do you exegete "church" and "orthodoxy" from greater and lesser lights. How is it that the first readers would have understood this. To my knowledge, this isn't apocalyptic literature that is up for interpretation.

Also, can you back up with Scripture (properly) the idea that the chosen will definitely not believe in free will?

 

[Iosias]

I am asking this in here in hopes of avoiding some of the non-RT thinkers with whom I disagree about their methods.

2 Peter 1:1-11 "Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ."

 

[Hammster]

Okay, then how do you make your calling and election sure, if you have no part in your calling and election?

 

[heymikey80]

Okay, then how do you make your calling and election sure, if you have no part in your calling and election?

Simple. But hard! Not in the sense that you're taking that verse. You don't "make your calling and election real".

Essentially it's the same sense as "saving yourself". You don't save yourself. Yet there are a number of Scripture phrases that might look like this this.

But to the verse, for that's what you're looking at. The verse is essentially saying, "be diligent to make your calling and election strong and dependable [by building on these qualities now available to you]".

"Sure" is a translation (I think a not so good one) from the Greek "strong/dependable".

Note also, Peter's already talked about how calling and promise are actually giving these abilities to Christians, in 1:3-5. So Peter's already set the stage, calling and election are causes, not effects.

His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, .... For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with [all kinds of good qualities] ... For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins. Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to make your calling and election strong/dependable, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall. For in this way there will be richly provided for you [instead of God having to discipline you in view of] an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 2 Pt 1:3-5,8-11
​

Note the key sentence one more time.

Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to make your calling and election strong/dependable, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall.
​

Grammatically, Peter must be mentioning "calling and election" as something he's talking about in context. He can't be in a complete vacuum. The only thing in this sentence that it'd connect with is "these qualities".

In larger context, "calling" and "choice" would be from 1:3-5. From what went on, 5-11, these qualities are the qualities that are a product of God's promises and calling. They're not the cause of calling and election.

In Greek the result in the context of some action like "calling" can be talked about as the action itself. This is hard to describe in English. Our words are often very slicey-dicey in comparison with Greek. The most vivid example I can think of is in Philippians: "though in God's form he thought it wasn't robbery to be equal with God" makes mind-numbing backward sense in English, until you realize "robbery" is the desire for spoils resulting from robbery: "though in God's form he thought it wasn't something to cling to to be equal with God".

Further afield, we also have to deal with a consistent picture of God's calling:

who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace 2 Tim 1:9
​

Ultimately Peter does support Paul's view by his statement. The context would conclude that calling and election made these qualities available to people, not vice versa.

 

[Iosias]

Okay, then how do you make your calling and election sure, if you have no part in your calling and election?

If you are elect then, because the Spirit works within you, you will live a holy life, i.e. one that is marked by the fruit of the Spirit. So instead of dwelling on the question, "Am I elect?" one should realise that this can only be answered based upon the character of your life. Therefore "add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity" knowing that "if ye do these things, ye shall never fall".

 

[tim237]

Read 1 John. It really answers the question. As others have said it's walking in the way of God that gives you assurance that you are in him (although not perfect obedience)

"By this we may know that we are in him: whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked" (1 John 2:5b-6). Then it continues to give examples of how this looks

 

[beloved57]

I am asking this in here in hopes of avoiding some of the non-RT thinkers with whom I disagree about their methods.

I am not asking for a debate. I am genuinely curious about your views on this. I may ask some qualifying questions, but will really try to avoid debate.

Thanks,

Chris

God the Holy Ghost gives the elect faith in their newbirth to know of their election..titus 1:

1Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

The Holy Spirit will bear witness with our human spirit we are the children of God or elect..rom 8:

16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

 

[GodsElect]

Matthew 7:13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because[a] narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!

24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.
26 “But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.”


Do you bear fruit?

Has God irrevocably inclined you unto himself by grace into a saving relationship with Him?

Do the fruits that you produce include honoring God with your life, and NOT just understanding a cloche printed on the back of a "Christian" tee shirt?

DO you know when you have sinned, and how much it OFFENDS a Holy God? Has God revealed to you your own DEPRAVED HEART and exposed it in the mirror of scripture?

Do these fruits include the mortifying of SIN and a LIFETIME of continual repentance?

Have these fruits been produced naturally from the new life that you have been given, the new creation that you've become by the supernatural POWER of God?

Are you continually being sanctified in your walk with Jesus Christ?

Do you love the things of the world that God HATES? Or do you love the things that God loves?

And when you stray from the narrow way, is the Lord, by whatever means necessary, putting you back on that path of righteousness?

EXAMINE YOURSELF to see if you are in the faith!

There are MANY other things to say about this. This is just a fraction of things to know if you are of the elect of God or not.

I pray that you know, for it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of a JUST and Holy God.


Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

 

[Hammster]

Thanks.

 

[gennaoanothen]

Matthew 7:13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because[a] narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!

24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.
26 “But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.”


Do you bear fruit?

Has God irrevocably inclined you unto himself by grace into a saving relationship with Him?

Do the fruits that you produce include honoring God with your life, and NOT just understanding a cloche printed on the back of a "Christian" tee shirt?

DO you know when you have sinned, and how much it OFFENDS a Holy God? Has God revealed to you your own DEPRAVED HEART and exposed it in the mirror of scripture?

Do these fruits include the mortifying of SIN and a LIFETIME of continual repentance?

Have these fruits been produced naturally from the new life that you have been given, the new creation that you've become by the supernatural POWER of God?

Are you continually being sanctified in your walk with Jesus Christ?

Do you love the things of the world that God HATES? Or do you love the things that God loves?

And when you stray from the narrow way, is the Lord, by whatever means necessary, putting you back on that path of righteousness?

EXAMINE YOURSELF to see if you are in the faith!

There are MANY other things to say about this. This is just a fraction of things to know if you are of the elect of God or not.

I pray that you know, for it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of a JUST and Holy God.


Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

good answer

 

[hedrick]

I'm very suspicious about these answers. They cause us to look to ourselves for assurance of our salvation. This seem to contradict basic principles of Calvinism. I would think the answer to how we know we are saved would be that we have confidence in God's Word, that Christ died for us.

I believe that anyone who relies on Christ, as this answer would have us do, is in fact saved.

 

[UnderHisWings1979]

I'm very suspicious about these answers. They cause us to look to ourselves for assurance of our salvation. This seem to contradict basic principles of Calvinism. I would think the answer to how we know we are saved would be that we have confidence in God's Word, that Christ died for us.

I believe that anyone who relies on Christ, as this answer would have us do, is in fact saved.

I agree with this statement, however, I would be careful how far you carry this line of thinking. The logical conclusion would be that there is no room for doubt, and if you have any doubt within you, then you are not saved, which simply is not true. But on the whole, I would agree. Answer the question, "To whom do you look for your salvation?" If the answer is Christ, you're good. If the answer is ever self, you probably need to take a close look at where you have placed your faith.