How do you keep from going crazy?!?

[sparassidae]

Well here is an update. Things have continued to be great. I thank God for it. I am actually looking forward to tommorrow because I can just spend time with them instead of cleaning all day. They have been helping maintain the house which means less for me to do and that equates to less stress and more time with them. I am excited! Praise God!

That's great. Don't worry, I took your initial comments the right way, I don't think you are abusing your children. For a start, it's great that you could recognise there was a problem in the way you were relating to each other, and look for solutions. Secondly,

We can admit that we totally 'lost it' with our children, and know we will find support, sympathy and prayer, not condemnation or judgement. That helps a lot.

 

[RedTulipMom]

First off, I do not abuse my children. I really hope that you do not think that spanking your children is abuse. If you do then I would highly recommend reading the Word of God on the matter. Remember we are supposed to "not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God."(Matt 4:4)
The Word of God is the Bible.

Pro 22:15
Foolishness [is] bound in the heart of a child; [but] the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

Pro 23:13

Withhold not correction from the child: for [if] thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.

Pro 29:15

The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left [to himself] bringeth his mother to shame.

YOUR WORDS were:
there have not been many days that the kids are around that I have not at some point during the day been so stressed that I started yelling and/or spanking hard or excessively.

That is NOT discipline..its abuse. YOU are the one that used the word EXCESSIVELY. and you even said there arent many Days YOU DONT do it! you also said your doing it out of STRESS..not to discipline. READ WHAT YOU WROTE ABOVE...you can kid yourself and say it isnt abuse..but you KNOW it IS! i am just saying STOP IT! what..ya want me to read those scriptures and be like "OH YA ..your RIGHT..hitting on little kids almost daily out of STReSS is the right thing to do!" sorry..but those scriptures you gave dont apply to people who hit their kids almost daily and out of stress..they just DONT. i am not hiding my head in the sand and pretending and allowing you to dismiss it with some scriptures. Grow up and be an adult and admit your doing something WRONG!

 

[BlessingsROnMe]

YOUR WORDS were:
there have not been many days that the kids are around that I have not at some point during the day been so stressed that I started yelling and/or spanking hard or excessively.

That is NOT discipline..its abuse. YOU are the one that used the word EXCESSIVELY. and you even said there arent many Days YOU DONT do it! you also said your doing it out of STRESS..not to discipline. READ WHAT YOU WROTE ABOVE...you can kid yourself and say it isnt abuse..but you KNOW it IS! i am just saying STOP IT! what..ya want me to read those scriptures and be like "OH YA ..your RIGHT..hitting on little kids almost daily out of STReSS is the right thing to do!" sorry..but those scriptures you gave dont apply to people who hit their kids almost daily and out of stress..they just DONT. i am not hiding my head in the sand and pretending and allowing you to dismiss it with some scriptures. Grow up and be an adult and admit your doing something WRONG!

Yes I know what I wrote. But I think there is a problem in the interepretation of my post or purhaps I just stated it in a bad way. If that first post's sentence came out wrong, then I appologize for it. Looking back at it, I suppose that it could be interpreted different than I meant it.
Here is what I was meaning rather or not it came out that way....
I have and do spank my kids when needed.
But I did not say that I spanked my kids for no reason....which spanking without cause would be abuse. They got spanked when they did something wrong. When I say "excessively", I mean more than I should have too....meaning they continuely did things wrong and got spanked over and over. They were not stopping the incorrect actions that they were doing....so they got spanked again. They were spanked more than I should have had to.....Not that they did not deserve each spanking.
Yes I was stressed. I do not like having to repeatedly dicipline my children over and over especially for the same wrong act,.... THAT is what caused me to be stressed. I was not stressed before that. I don't just walk around stressed for no reason. I have a great life, I just do not like it when my kids are not obedient. I personally would be more worried about a parent that enjoys diciplining their children than one that gets stressed about it.

You say that I need to grow up, be an adult, and admit that I am doing something wrong. I would like to point out a few things here. First off, I am a lot more "grown up" than you realize. It would probably be a good idea for you to look at YOUR personal state of maturity and the things in YOUR own life that need to be changed. That reminds me of more scriptures.
Mat 7:3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Mat 7:4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam [is] in thine own eye? Mat 7:5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.


Secondly, if you look back, I started this thread to try to get some help on how to remedy my stressful situations. That is as good as you are going to get for "admitting that I did something wrong". You are not going to get me to admit to doing something that I do not do such as beating my children.


P.S.
It is not wise to add things to the Bible. Deu 12:32What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.Those scriptures in my last post do not specify any of the details that you stated. It is not your place to say which scriptures "apply" to which person.

 

[RedTulipMom]

alright, if you want to take back your statements in the first post, thats your perogative. i was simply responding to the statements you originally made. Why you keep throwing scriptures at ME i have no idea. Sorry..when i hear about children being abused, i dont sit by and watch. I guess theres no more to say.

 

[Leanna]

I just want to say that To Train Up A Child is written by a strange family in rural Tennesee and their practices have been linked to at least one death of a child. Their book is very dangerous as they emotionally manipulate you into believing their way is right but they twist scripture and even their belief about salvation is poor-- we are responsible for raising children with knowledge of God but it is ultimately up to them whether or not they accept Him. It is not the using of physical punishment that leads to salvation. Best wishes!

 

[seamonster]

But I did not say that I spanked my kids for no reason....which spanking without cause would be abuse. They got spanked when they did something wrong. When I say "excessively", I mean more than I should have too....meaning they continuely did things wrong and got spanked over and over. They were not stopping the incorrect actions that they were doing....so they got spanked again. They were spanked more than I should have had to.....Not that they did not deserve each spanking.

If they don't get it the first time, obviously spanking isn't working and it's time to try a different approach.

 

[BlessingsROnMe]

I just want to say that To Train Up A Child is written by a strange family in rural Tennesee and their practices have been linked to at least one death of a child. Their book is very dangerous as they emotionally manipulate you into believing their way is right but they twist scripture and even their belief about salvation is poor-- we are responsible for raising children with knowledge of God but it is ultimately up to them whether or not they accept Him. It is not the using of physical punishment that leads to salvation. Best wishes!

I appreciate your post and I thank you that you are trying to help but I have a couple questions for you and I do not mean any disrespect by them......
Since when was it your place to judge them to be strange? Or their book to be dangerous?
Have YOU read the book?
Where did YOU hear that they are linked to a death of a child? Did you see it on the news or did you hear it from a friend? I can not see how that is so.
I am not sure what you mean by salvation....are you meaning salvation of the soul or are you talking about dicipline? Because I have not seen them talk about salvation of the soul in this book...but of course I still have a little left to read.
In what I have read, I have not noticed them twisting scripture any. And I have not read their philosophy on salvation but I can say it is not our place to judge someones salvation...that is Gods. It is just our job to make sure that they know about it. To my knowledge they are not preaching salvation in this book, but how to get your kids to be obedient. And I know they have other books and I have read some and are working on others....so far I like them all.
But in reguards to this book....
What they do is "train". The only time they use "physical punishment" is when they are training. And that is no more than light spanking. Once they are trained they should rarely need to be diciplined by spanking anymore. And the way I understand it is that training does not take long. I personally find the book very insiteful and helpful. If when finishing the book, I find that I was incorrect about any thing that I said about the book, I will let you know. So far the only thing that I have not liked about the book is that he judges so many parents. I have often thought, I wonder what their friends think of them putting them in their book as a negative example.

I totally agree with the last 4 and half lines of you post.

 

[BlessingsROnMe]

alright, if you want to take back your statements in the first post, thats your perogative. i was simply responding to the statements you originally made. Why you keep throwing scriptures at ME i have no idea. Sorry..when i hear about children being abused, i dont sit by and watch. I guess theres no more to say.

I am not "taking back" what I said in the first post. The only thing that should probably be reworded would be the statement about stress and that would be just to make it more understood that I was not stressed until after their actions.

I keep "throwing" scriptures at you because this is supposed to be a Christian site and Christians are supposed to live by the Word of God, which is the Bible.
I do not like to argue (if that is what this is considered), but even more so than that, I do not like people judging me of things like that.

 

[BlessingsROnMe]

If they don't get it the first time, obviously spanking isn't working and it's time to try a different approach.

Spanking alone probably won't remedy the problem but at some times may be needed along with something like talking it out. A lot of times disobedience problems go deeper than one may think. So things should be dealt with accordingly.
Yes, I do not like having to spank (although I do not think spanking is wrong because it says it is not in the Bible).
Finding out a variety of solutions for dicipline was one of the reason why I started this thread.

 

[BlessingsROnMe]

I just want to say that To Train Up A Child is written by a strange family in rural Tennesee and their practices have been linked to at least one death of a child. Their book is very dangerous as they emotionally manipulate you into believing their way is right but they twist scripture and even their belief about salvation is poor-- we are responsible for raising children with knowledge of God but it is ultimately up to them whether or not they accept Him. It is not the using of physical punishment that leads to salvation. Best wishes!

I believe this probably what you are referring to and I personally think that it would be far pressed to try to say that they were directly connected to the death of the boy. He died by suffication, the book does not say anything about sufficating your children. Obviously this woman had some issues beforehand and people that do not like the book are just trying to put the blame on the Pearls. What is sad is that the adoption agencies did not evaluate her enough to realize that she was a potential danger to the kids.
One thing that people are not realizing is that in the book he talks about a little switch (from a tree) or a small flexable piece of tubing. It is not like he is talking about a 4 in diameter PVC pipe!
Keep in mind that the Pearls wrote their books to help people.....

Here is a reader review that quotes the incident.....
1 of 3 people found the following review helpful:

Dead child's mom sought discipline tips, 29 Mar 2006
Reviewer: A reader

"A few years ago, Lynn Paddock sought Christian advice on how to discipline her growing brood of adopted children.
Paddock -- a Johnston County mother accused of murdering Sean, her 4-year-old adopted son, and beating two other adopted children -- surfed the Internet, said her attorney, Michael Reece. She found literature by an evangelical minister and his wife who recommended using plumbing supply lines to spank misbehaving children."
"Sean died after being wrapped so tightly in blankets he suffocated. That, too, was a form of punishment, Johnston County Sheriff Steve Bizzell said.

The Pearls' advice from their Web site: A swift whack with the plastic tubing would sting but not bruise. Give 10 licks at a time, more if the child resists. Be careful about using it in front of others -- even at church; nosy neighbors might call social workers. Save hands for nurturing, not disciplining. Heed the warning, taken from Proverbs in the Old Testament, that sparing the rod will spoil the child."

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Man it is really quite sad how people have neglected the word of God. Now it is not "right" to spank your kids....even though the word of God says to. It says it right there in black and white.
Sad.

 

[littleton]

We have 14 children. It is challenging, but the blessings are infinitely greater than the challenges. I encourage those struggling with a few children to remember that the younger ones will get bigger and be able to help with the younger ones. God's plan really is perfect. And He doesn't expect us to be perfect. The merit is in the effort and the endurance.

My wife and i just wrote and published a book, Better by the Dozen Plus Two where we go into a lot of detail on this subject. Gd bless you. Jim

 

[Leanna]

Since when was it your place to judge them to be strange? Or their book to be dangerous?
Have YOU read the book?
Where did YOU hear that they are linked to a death of a child? Did you see it on the news or did you hear it from a friend? I can not see how that is so.

Yes it was on the news.

I don't need to say much here as most people upon reading their first chapter online see exactly what kind of people they are, http://www.foche.net/TUAC.htm

I particularly love how it opens with "switch your kids" and compares them to dogs in the second paragraph, "Careful training can make a dog perfectly obedient. If a seeing-eye dog can be trained to reliably lead a blind man through the obstacles of a city street, shouldn't a parent expect more out of an intelligent child? A dog can be trained not to touch a tasty morsel laid in front of him. Can't a child be trained not to touch? A dog can be trained to come, stay, sit, be quiet or fetch upon command. "

How about their brilliant idea of switching a crawling BABY after setting an object where they know the baby will touch it?

"When my children were able to crawl (in the case of one, roll) around the room, I set up training sessions. Try it yourself. Place an appealing object where they can reach it, maybe in a "No-no" corner or on an apple juice table (That's where the coffee table
once sat). When they spy it and make a dive for it, in a calm voice say, "No, don't touch it." They will already be familiar with the "No," so they will pause, look at you in wonder and then turn around and grab it. Switch their hand once and simultaneously say, "No."

Honestly if you don't find that disturbing, its pointless for us to have this conversation.

Their opening paragraph is called emotional manupulation... if you do it our way you will have this result.... haha! There are so many articles out there "where is this joy they speak of" and broken parents with broken and hurting children....

Its abuse. Do a few more searches on google.

 

[littleton]

A lot of prayer and reliance and God's assured grace He is with us. He will never give us more that we can handle even thought it may seem so humanly at times. You might benefit from reading our book.

 

[BlessingsROnMe]

Yes it was on the news.

I don't need to say much here as most people upon reading their first chapter online see exactly what kind of people they are, http://www.foche.net/TUAC.htm

I particularly love how it opens with "switch your kids" and compares them to dogs in the second paragraph, "Careful training can make a dog perfectly obedient. If a seeing-eye dog can be trained to reliably lead a blind man through the obstacles of a city street, shouldn't a parent expect more out of an intelligent child? A dog can be trained not to touch a tasty morsel laid in front of him. Can't a child be trained not to touch? A dog can be trained to come, stay, sit, be quiet or fetch upon command. "

How about their brilliant idea of switching a crawling BABY after setting an object where they know the baby will touch it?

"When my children were able to crawl (in the case of one, roll) around the room, I set up training sessions. Try it yourself. Place an appealing object where they can reach it, maybe in a "No-no" corner or on an apple juice table (That's where the coffee table
once sat). When they spy it and make a dive for it, in a calm voice say, "No, don't touch it." They will already be familiar with the "No," so they will pause, look at you in wonder and then turn around and grab it. Switch their hand once and simultaneously say, "No."

Honestly if you don't find that disturbing, its pointless for us to have this conversation.

Their opening paragraph is called emotional manupulation... if you do it our way you will have this result.... haha! There are so many articles out there "where is this joy they speak of" and broken parents with broken and hurting children....

Its abuse. Do a few more searches on google.

Even if you did hear it on the news does not mean that it is their fault. That is like saying "9-11" is the people's fault that taught the terrorists to fly.

Obviously we do not see eye to eye on this and probably won't. I see it how the Bible says it.
Pro 10:13In the lips of him that hath understanding wisdom is found: but a rod [is] for the back of him that is void of understanding. Pro 13:24He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

Pro 22:15Foolishness [is] bound in the heart of a child; [but] the rod of correction shall drive it far from him. Pro 23:13Withhold not correction from the child: for [if] thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Pro 23:14Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.
Pro 29:15The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left [to himself] bringeth his mother to shame.

 

[Leanna]

Even if you did hear it on the news does not mean that it is their fault. That is like saying "9-11" is the people's fault that taught the terrorists to fly.

Obviously we do not see eye to eye on this and probably won't. I see it how the Bible says it.
Pro 10:13In the lips of him that hath understanding wisdom is found: but a rod [is] for the back of him that is void of understanding. Pro 13:24He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

Pro 22:15Foolishness [is] bound in the heart of a child; [but] the rod of correction shall drive it far from him. Pro 23:13Withhold not correction from the child: for [if] thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Pro 23:14Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.
Pro 29:15The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left [to himself] bringeth his mother to shame.

So we're clear on this, you find nothing disturbing about this? --

"When my children were able to crawl (in the case of one, roll) around the room, I set up training sessions. Try it yourself. Place an appealing object where they can reach it, maybe in a "No-no" corner or on an apple juice table (That's where the coffee table
once sat). When they spy it and make a dive for it, in a calm voice say, "No, don't touch it." They will already be familiar with the "No," so they will pause, look at you in wonder and then turn around and grab it. Switch their hand once and simultaneously say, "No."

 

[Thankful4HIM]

yuck about the statements from the pearls.. i'm hurting just from those words....

 

[BlessingsROnMe]

I think it all depends on the child. They apparently thought she was ready. We started to discipline our daughter around 6 months. At that point she was mobile and talking (not complete sentences, but enough to understand). But my two boys were not like that. We did not start disciplining them until about one. The biggest thing to look at is what the Pearl's kids thought about it. The kids are now grown and do not think that they were abused and mistreated. And chances are they will bring up their children in the same manner. So what does it matter what we think about it. If you do not want to go by their book, then that is fine, but do not judge them and others that go by the book and think that is helps them.
Honestly what I think is disturbing is that you guys are overlooking the scriptures that talk about discipline in the Bible. They do not say what age to start disciplining, but just to do it when they are a child. A 5 month old is as much a child as a 4 year old.
I know several people that had to start disciplining their kids at about 6 months. And I also know several people that discipline according to the book and their kids are obedient and easy to be around. Then I have some friends that did not discipline until about 2 and their kids have had issues with authority and such....and honestly have not been the easiest to be around.
Raise your kids the way you see fit, but do not judge others of how they do it.

 

[Leanna]

I think it all depends on the child.

Like I said, if you don't find that disturbing then there's not much to talk about ...

I do believe in discipline. I disagree that discipline means hitting them with a switch and certain types of piping so that it won't leave marks and CPS can't be called.

 

[Thankful4HIM]

Um... I read some of what they said to do kids... and I'm not trying to be mean by saying this.. but ANYONE who believes that beating their children as described in their book.. is wacked out!!! I was beat for 14 years of my life and let me tell you, I had a lot of what is being taught in that disgusting book to me...
Hitting a 4 month old with a switch for crawling up the stairs, Pulling the hair of a nursing INFANT because it grabs the nipple to hard, Tripping a child who doesn't know how to swim into the deep end of a pool, Using a Karate type chop into a 4 year old causing a wheeze deep inside somewhere, Beating a child until it gives a weak submissive cry.. Come on that's all sick... all i have to say about that... SICK!

 

[BlessingsROnMe]

Like I said, if you don't find that disturbing then there's not much to talk about ...

I do believe in discipline. I disagree that discipline means hitting them with a switch and certain types of piping so that it won't leave marks and CPS can't be called.

so what do you think about the Bible saying use a "rod"?
Is that sick too?
I will throw out my personal experience....
I can not remember really being diciplined(grounded, spanked, rules enforced, ect.) But looking back, it would have helped me out a lot more if I would have been. Then I probably would not have gone through a lot of the problems that I did in my life. I would have understood authority better and probably would not have gotten in trouble so much by thinking that no one can tell me what to do. I probably would have started my marriage out better by knowing about authority and submission...instead of being a hard headed brat. I can go on and on how my life would have been so much better IF I had actual dicipline in my life to were I understood authority. I had no respect for authority and was fine with letting people know that. And the cause of it was because my parents did not enforce teaching about respect for authority and responsibility . They had rules and they would sometimes threaten things (such as you will not be able to do that anymore) but they never put their foot down. They would tell me to be home by midnight and I would come home at 2 or later. They did not want me to have responsibility until I had to (which was atleast 18 or when I moved out). They did not want me to have a job and I had to beg my parents to let me have a job at almost 18. They paid for my car, insurance, cell phone/pager, for gas, clothes, goodies, my entertainment activities and ect. They did not tell me to clean my room or how to do laundry. Basically my only job was to "be a kid while I could" And even though I have finally learned(the hard way) how to be responsible and respect authority, they still try to "carry" me. I have to tell them to let me be an adult. They did everything that they did out of love, but honestly they would have truly loved me more if they would have taught me about responsibility and authority and actually put there foot down. I have two other siblings and all of us went through troubles that probably could have been avoided if we would have been raised a little differently. And one of them is still trying to get it right. Not putting their foot down and disciplining us hurt us more than it helped us....but it was all done in love.
And I have noticed, when I have gotten my kids back from being at my parents, they have been so much harder to control because they did not have discipline while with my parents.
Discipline is needed for kids. And the Bible says to discipline with a rod.....a.k.a. "spank"...not time outs and such.