How do you Interpret?

[TheScottsMen]

How do you Interpret?

We have thousands of denominations on this planet and thousands of different interpretations of scriptures. Not one denomination follows the same rules of interpretations as the next. How do you interpret? Has God given us scriptures to have thousands of different meanings of even a differnet meaning to each of us? I think not. With that, how then shall we interpret? Let us be specific. Three scriptures.Using your interpretion method, interpret these three scriptures including stating your method of interpretion and why you believe as you do.

Mar 11:23 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou taken up and cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that what he saith cometh to pass; he shall have it.

Exo 33:22 and it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a cleft of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand until I have passed by: Exo 33:23 and I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my back; but my face shall not be seen.

Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

 

[Svt4Him]

Well, for the first one, I think if he shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that what he saith cometh to pass; he shall have it. What parts unclear?

Second one-anthropomorphism

Third- there were giants in the earth.


Now I'm going to start a new church called:

The Giant Mountain Church in the Cleft.

In the early 1500s, a German monk named Martin Luther was so conscious of his sins that he spent up to six hours in the confessional. Through study of the Scriptures he found that salvation didn’t come through anything he did, but simply through trusting in the finished work of the cross of Jesus Christ. He listed the contradictions between what the Scriptures said and what his church taught, and nailed his "95 Theses" to the church door in Wittenberg, Germany. Martin Luther became the first to "protest" against the Roman church, and thus he became the father of the Protestant church. Since that split, there have been many disagreements about how much water one should baptize with, how to sing what and why, who should govern who, etc., causing thousands of splinter groups. Many of these groups are convinced that they alone are right. These have become known as Protestant "denominations." Despite the confusion, these churches subscribe to certain foundational beliefs such as the deity, death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. The Bible says, "The foundation of God stands sure, having this seal, The Lord knows them that are his" (2 Timothy 2:19). Thomas Jefferson once wrote of a preacher, Richard Mote, who "exclaimed aloud to his congregation that he did not believe there was a Quaker, Presbyterian, Methodist, or Baptist in heaven, having paused to give his hearers time to stare and to wonder. He added that, in heaven, God knew no distinctions."

 

[Andrew]

TheScottsMan,

The Word of God is living a dynamic. One verse can speak to a person by the Spirit in differing but not contradicting ways.

And when it is difficult to understnd a verse, one can always 'Let the Bible Interpret the Bible". This I find is a very sound principle. eg, Gen 6:4 "sons of God" refers to angels becos the Bible 'says so'. ie whereever "sons of God" appears elsewhere in the OT, it refers to angels. So why shld it be differed in Gen 6:4? Becos our mind and logic cannot accept it?

 

[Charlesinflorida]

You have asked a good question ScottsMan. Most wrong interpretation that become doctrine happen because there is a strong individual with an idea of what a scripture means and he is able to convince others who do not have the gumption or initiative to prove it out for themselves. You might say there are leaders and there are followers more of the latter than the former.

Marcion is a perfect example of a heretic that was able to sway a great number of people with the idea that the God in the old testament was not the same God that was in the new testament. He canoned a bible with only the letters of Paul, with some of those letter re-edited a bit to make his case. Eventually he was discredited as a Heretic. But not until after swaying perhaps hundreds of thousands of people. And to top it all of, many of his heretical teaching became permanent features of todays accepted church doctrine. If you have not studied this Marcion issue it is worth the time.

Why does this not take place so much in Judaism? Because there is no one man who is in charge, who is "infalable" like the pope is considered to be. All Scripture and all new writings had to be compared to what God gave in the written Torah and it had to be approved by a council of men. Even at the local synagogue level there is a group of men who share responsibility rather than one man (a minister) who is hired to do it all. The religious ritual mistakes that came along in Judaism were because they placed too much importance on the Oral Tora, thereby deviating from the written Torah.

Charles in Florida

 

[SavedByGrace3]

How do you Interpret?

We have thousands of denominations on this planet and thousands of different interpretations of scriptures. Not one denomination follows the same rules of interpretations as the next. How do you interpret? Has God given us scriptures to have thousands of different meanings of even a differnet meaning to each of us? I think not. With that, how then shall we interpret? Let us be specific. Three scriptures.Using your interpretion method, interpret these three scriptures including stating your method of interpretion and why you believe as you do.

Ok dude.

Mar 11:23 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou taken up and cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that what he saith cometh to pass; he shall have it.

Before I worry about interpretations, I first I check out the literal versions for accuracy of translation and correctness of tense (most modern translations are notorious for having the tenses wrong).

Mar 11:23(LITV)
23 For truly I say to you, Whoever says to this mountain, Be taken up and be thrown into the sea, and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says will happen, it will be to him, whatever he says.

Looks pretty good. Some minor differences but the same message.
I also have a look at Vines, Roberts, and Vincents word studies. Sometimes what you are reading is an "idiom" like the camel through the eye of the needle thing.

Then I attempt to rightly divide the word by determining the context of the message. I might look at a Commentary, but these are also notorious for waxing threological on you. But they do have some good insight into translation sometimes. Most of the translations don't want to take this verse at face value so they "spiritualize it" i.e. this is not talking about a real mountian. But the passage in question was talking about the cursing of a fig tree... that tree was not symbolic or spiritual, so we must take this verse also to mean a literal mountian.
Next, just read it. In this particular verse I pay special attention to the "believe and not doubt in his heart"... it does not say "think and not be confused in his head", nor does it say "desire and not weaken in his body". He is specifically talking about the heart and believing. Thoughts passing through the mind is not belief. Desires coursing through the body is not beleif. Faith is the word of Christ abiding in the heart.
At some point I try to determine if the verse applies to us, as believers. Who is it talking to? In what context. This verse is definately talking to us.
I try to find a way to apply it. In this particular verse, the message is not just for a mountian... this is the extreme example. It is for anything that you can believe and articulate with your mouth. You have what you say. Not you "can" have what you say... but you do have what you say. If you believe something (anything!) and say it with your mouth... you do have what you say.

Exo 33:22 and it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a cleft of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand until I have passed by: Exo 33:23 and I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my back; but my face shall not be seen.

The OT is a completely different animal. There are considerations to be made and before you can assume you know what it is saying, you must do a lot of research and meditating. The NT can be taken at face value most of the time... but the OT is so full of types, shadows, symbolism, styles, methods, and degrees that very often people can get tripped up when extracting truth.
I always look into the NT to see what if anything is said about the verse. I then apply the same rules of study listed above for the NT. In the OT we see that the rules of strict contextualism are not followed. If you read the NT where the OT is quoted, you will find that the OT passage is being quoted "out of context" the majority of the time! It is a bad idea to try and extract NT truth from OT text. The average Joe just does not know enough about it.
There are numerous scriptures that say that no man has seen God, while at the same time there is at least 2 that say they have.
Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Jdg 13:22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God.

Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him]

1Jo 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

So for one thing, since the NT says no man has seen God, then we would have to interpret the OT in the light of what the NT says. Another thing in this case is to apply the above mentioned rule of strict contextualism. What is the point the author is trying to make? If it is clear, then take the point and go with it.

Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

I am fairly sure these were exactly what the scripture says. Angels + females = giants, or some other wierd offspring. Aliens? I don't think so.
Peace
Didy

 

[Jim B]

TheScottsMen asked (rhetorically, I think):

We have thousands of denominations on this planet and thousands of different interpretations of scriptures. Not one denomination follows the same rules of interpretations as the next. How do you interpret? Has God given us scriptures to have thousands of different meanings of even a differnet meaning to each of us? I think not.

But it all boils down to whose interpretation is correct. The only anwer to a question like this is, “Why, MY (or my denomination’s) interpretation, of course.” And then we’re deadlocked again. If you and I differ on a particular interpretation of scripture, one of us has to be right and one of us has to be wrong (at least by your 'interpretation'). So who is which? And who decides? Why I do, of course.

Take for example, Svt4Him’s interpretation of Mark 11.23 (where Jesus said, “Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou taken up and cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that what he saith cometh to pass; he shall have it.”) S. asks,

What parts unclear?

I think, Svt4Him, it’s the mountain part. Have you every seen someone’s faith actually move a mountain? A LITERAL mountain? Or was Jesus using hyperbole or figurative language here? There seems to be some “unclear”-ness here and it is open to interpretation.

I tend to agree with Andrew who said

The Word of God is living a dynamic. One verse can speak to a person by the Spirit in differing but not contradicting ways.

But, hey, that’s just my interpretation.

Jim
\o/

PS - I think this is a very important issue and I will be interested in posts that show up here.

 

[Trish1947]

I think, Svt4Him, it’s the mountain part. Have you every seen someone’s faith actually move a mountain? A LITERAL mountain? Or was Jesus using hyperbole or figurative language here? There seems to be some “unclear”-ness here and it is open to interpretation.

I guess if a litereal mountain needs to be moved, God will move it.. I understand that a certain television ministry was first starting out, their signal was being blocked by a mountain, they got together and prayed, and as I understand the story, the mountain was moved by 6 inches. Just enough to get the signal through. They confessed that scripture, because thats what they needed. Has anyone else heard this story?

 

[Svt4Him]

Jim, actually I have never met someone with faith to move mountains, much less actually try to do it. But if my father was involved in an avalanche, and spoke to the mountain to move, and it missed him totally, would that count? But I think the verse was focused on faith, not the mountain.

Trish, I have heard a similar story, but couldn't cite it. I tend to not trust them totally, although I believe it could happen.

 

[Theophilus7]

There are numerous scriptures that say that no man has seen God, while at the same time there is at least 2 that say they have.

Gen 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Jdg 13:22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God.

Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him]

1Jo 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

So for one thing, since the NT says no man has seen God, then we would have to interpret the OT in the light of what the NT says. Another thing in this case is to apply the above mentioned rule of strict contextualism. What is the point the author is trying to make? If it is clear, then take the point and go with it.

I don't think you should see this as an "either/or" choice, didaskalos. The OT's testimony of people seeing God and the NT's declaration of God's impenetrable invisibility are not contradictory. It is true that no one has seen God as He is in His invisible essence, but people have seen manifestations of God. Let me borrow an illustration from R.A. Torrey. You have only ever seen yourself in a mirror or some other device. You could say say, I have seen myself, quite truthfully. Then again, you could say, I have not really seen myself, because all I actually saw was a reflection, not the real me.

 

[Jim B]

Trish wrote:

I guess if a litereal mountain needs to be moved, God will move it.. I understand that a certain television ministry was first starting out, their signal was being blocked by a mountain, they got together and prayed, and as I understand the story, the mountain was moved by 6 inches. Just enough to get the signal through. They confessed that scripture, because thats what they needed. Has anyone else heard this story?

Svt4Him commented:

Trish, I have heard a similar story, but couldn't cite it. I tend to not trust them totally, although I believe it could happen.

Trish, I will have to side with Svt4Him on this. At the risk of being cynical, I think these kind of statements need some sort of verification. People can claim anything. Even the Bible requires two or three witnesses before anything is confirmed.

My first encounter with what I considered an outlandish story was in my first year as a Christian. I was, in those days (c.1965), a junior at a university who had just come to the Lord and was intellectually inclined (though, as it turned out, I am not as intellectual as I once thought) and heard an evangelist in revival at our home church baldfacedly tell us one night that astronomers had sighted an object in space coming toward the Earth at terrific speed. They had scientifically measured the object and whattayaknow, it was 1,200 miles square, amazingly the exact same dimensions as the New Jerusalem, hallelujah!, and by traveling at the estimated rate of speed it would arrive within the next two years. Hallelujah! Then he lapsed into shouting over and over again, “He’s coming soon! . . . etc.” Well, pandemonium broke out and we had one of those "Pentecostal services." I was totally dumbfounded. I was full of skepticism but, surely, I kept telling myself, a man of God would not invent an outlandish thing such as that. It must be true if the man of God said it. Certainly he would not lie.

But I just could not believe it and, sure enough, time proved evangelist was wrong. Either he had invented the story for evangelistic effect or he gullibly believed a lie and passed it on to equally gullibe people. Who knows? There was no such astronomical discovery and to this day I cannot believe he said it except for the fact that, over the past 40 years in my service to the Lord, I have heard equally bizarre statements spoken as truth and today I just prefer to ask for verification.

So, can you provide some proof about the fact that a literal mountain actually moved in answer to prayer.

I am not saying it couldn’t happen (I believe all things are possible with God) but I am not sure it ever has. At least, apart of urban myth tylpe stories, I don't think I know of a proven instance where it has. And I am not sure Jesus was speaking literally. Personally, I think he was using figurative language to drive home a point that prayer can accomplish even impossible things.

Jim
\o/

 

[Svt4Him]

So back to my question about the avalanche, if you think about it, it is moving a mountain. Not the way you think, but why would it be any less of a miracle. My father works for the Minstry of Environment, or at least did until it closed, so he was always doing snow serveys.

 

[LynneClomina]

i think moving a mountain, for day to day christians, means the mountains in our lives, what ever they may be.

that being said, God had water come from a rock and a sea part among other things, at the hand of a man.... obviously that man had a special conviction that he had truly heard from God, which then gave him such faith as to believe that when he did it it would happen...

i think there are lots of little miracles that are not witnessed by two or three that nevertheless really happened, we just dont hear about them. and i think sometimes we doubt too easily...i know i do.

Lynne

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I don't think you should see this as an "either/or" choice, didaskalos. The OT's testimony of people seeing God and the NT's declaration of God's impenetrable invisibility are not contradictory. It is true that no one has seen God as He is in His invisible essence, but people have seen manifestations of God. Let me borrow an illustration from R.A. Torrey. You have only ever seen yourself in a mirror or some other device. You could say say, I have seen myself, quite truthfully. Then again, you could say, I have not really seen myself, because all I actually saw was a reflection, not the real me.

Thanks brother T7, I value you thoughts very much!

 

[Theophilus7]

Hi,

How do you Interpret?

I find that common sense usually suffices. I don't think you need a Seminary education to be able to exegete the majority of Bible passages. When we read the Bible holistically, "comparing spiritual things with spiritual", the correct meaning will generally become apparent.

You are correct in saying that interpretive methods vary somewhat, but there is a much greater consensus than you allow. Having worked through the main part of three systematic theologies from a Calvinist, Pentecostal and Presbyterian perspective, I can verify that we agree more than we disagree.

Mar 11:23 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou taken up and cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that what he saith cometh to pass; he shall have it.

The broader context of Christ's teachings qualify this verse to include only those things in the will of God. The immediate context of this statement is Jesus' cursing of the fig tree. He assures the disciples that they can duplicate this behaviour if they have faith (assurance of God's will). The substance is this: a man of faith, when inspired and directed by the Holy Spirit, may issue authoritative commands to something opposing or obstructing the work of the kingdom. The command of faith is one way in which God authorises human beings to manifest His revealed will into different situations.

Exo 33:22 and it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a cleft of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand until I have passed by: Exo 33:23 and I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my back; but my face shall not be seen.

First, the broader theological context demands that we recognise God's appearance to Moses as a theophany - a manifestation of God. Moses was not seeing God's actual being. Whether or not God appeared in the form of a man or this was purely anthropomorphic language is a secondary issue.

Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

There is a theory that explains "the sons of God" as a righteous line of human descent, rather than angelic beings. This fits in more comfortably with what we learn about angelic spirit beings in the New Testament. However, it doesn't seem to sit very well with Genesis 6 itself. Both Gen. 6:4:, the immediate context and the book of Jude are more supportive of the older theory that angelic beings did copulate with human beings, spawning a hybrid race. It is a problematic passage, though, I must agree. Certainly Christians disagree about this one.

 

[Theophilus7]

Personally, I think he was using figurative language to drive home a point that prayer can accomplish even impossible things.

I think your position (if I have understood it correctly) is weakened somewhat by the immediate context. The kind of faith Jesus is encouraging is the faith that He Himself exercised when He commanded the fig tree to wither. It was not a figurative fig tree! This event provided the springboard for Christ's command. As I understand Him, Christ is saying,

"You see what I did to that fig tree? That's nothing. If you have assurance of God's will and are moving in obedience to His Holy Spirit - nothing is too big for you. Size isn't an issue with God. If it was God's will for this mountain over here to get out of the way, He could do that. Nothing is impossible with God."
​

Granted, it is unlikely that God would wish the Pennines in England to be scooped up and thrown into the ocean. But God is saying that anything from fig trees to mountains and beyond are all subject to Him. An illustration of this kind of faith occurs in the Old Testament.

12Then spoke Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD gave the Amorites over to the men of Israel; and he said in the sight of Israel,
"Sun, stand thou still at Gibeon, and thou Moon in the valley of Ai'jalon." 13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stayed in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day. (Joshua 10)
​

(I don't know about you, but I find it hard to figure this one out!)

The mountain in Mark 11:23 could represent a lot of things. But it could also represent a mountain.

Pip pip.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

The mountain in Mark 11:23 could represent a lot of things. But it could also represent a mountain.
Pip pip.

Quite so T7...
I always thought it must mean a real mountain because it was a real fig tree that He cursed and it was in that context that He was speaking. I find it interesting that very often folks who take this to be a "figurative mountain" are only be able to move "figurative mountains" with their faith.

 

[Jim B]

Well, you might be right didaskalos and T7. I do not doubt the power of God or the efficacy of faith. If Christ could have withered a fid tree He could have moved a mountain and while He said we, too, could move a mountain, then He could very well have meant a literal mountain. I have just never seen proof that this has ever happened in the 2,000 year history of the Church (although it very well may have happened and was just not reported … but who knows?) for that reason, I believe in a more practical sense, Jesus meant the statement figuratively. But, of course, it could be much more than that.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Well, you might be right didaskalos and T7. I do not doubt the power of God or the efficacy of faith. If Christ could have withered a fid tree He could have moved a mountain and while He said we, too, could move a mountain, then He could very well have meant a literal mountain. I have just never seen proof that this has ever happened in the 2,000 year history of the Church (although it very well may have happened and was just not reported … but who knows?) for that reason, I believe in a more practical sense, Jesus meant the statement figuratively. But, of course, it could be much more than that.

Hi Jim,
We could link this verse up with 1 Cor 13:2 "... and if I have all faith so as to move mountains..." and perhaps reason that this is the upper limit of what could be done with faith.

 

[Jim B]

Thanks Didy for your insight:

Hi Jim,
We could link this verse up with 1 Cor 13:2 "... and if I have all faith so as to move mountains..." and perhaps reason that this is the upper limit of what could be done with faith.

That makes a lot of sense.

 

[pmarquette]

How do you Interpret?
mouth of 2-3 witnesses ...
Deu 17:6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; [but] at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.


Deu 19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.


Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear [thee, then] take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.


2Cr 13:1 This [is] the third [time] I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.
We have thousands of denominations on this planet and thousands of different interpretations of scriptures.

Not one denomination follows the same rules of interpretations as the next. How do you interpret? Has God given us scriptures to have thousands of different meanings of even a differnet meaning to each of us? I think not.
context : literature , culture , history , context ,

With that, how then shall we interpret? Let us be specific. Three scriptures.Using your interpretion method, interpret these three scriptures including stating your method of interpretion and why you believe as you do.

beleiver's authority ....
Mar 11:23 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou taken up and cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that what he saith cometh to pass; he shall have it.
same thought as 1 John 5.14-18 speak , believe , expect ; given authority over evil , to go and do : Luke 9.1 & 10.9 ; greater things will you do
1Th 5:24 Faithful [is] he that calleth you, who also will do [it].

2Th 3:4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you.

Exo 33:22 and it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a cleft of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand until I have passed by: Exo 33:23 and I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my back; but my face shall not be seen.
Moses desired to see God , face to face .... but to look upon the face of God is to die ... so god permitted moses to see his back : Matthew 7.7 ; ask and will receive ; Psa 37:4 Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.

Genesis 6:4 There were giants *in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
some say these were the *Nephilim , the giants , the sons of Anack , like Goliath.... others say they were the fallen angels and descendants of Cain ; some say they were the men of means ... like Donald Trumph , Bill Gates ... wealthy sinners ...