How do you interpret Acts 10:9-15?

[JewishHeart]

I know others believe Torah should be a foundation, I believe it should be the foundation of the kehilla (church) as in Messianic Jewish apostles and prophets, but our relationship with Hashem begins with Messiah and a relationship. The Holy Spirit teaches the depths of Torah as we mature. We first learn about His love and grace, and then learn the rules. Just like with mom and dad. First the love, protection, and nurture; and then the rules.

 

[JewishHeart]

Basically I believe many of the christian world still eats the milk of the word. This is the stage they allow the Holy Spirit to teach them as of now. We will mature as the body of Messiah. When? dunno.

 

[JewishHeart]

by the way.. i have learned alot from the christian world about how to be led by the Spirit, how to develop character and integrity, and how to operate in the power of the Spirit. These are just the basics of the faith and Torah leads us to deeper maturity.

 

[CharlesYTK]

Quote Yaphet:

"What I believe Ha Shem was showing was that Kepha was to go and make peace with those who were cut off from being called G-d's people. In other words, to make a Zevach Shalamim... or Shalom.
We can also see this as a continual struggle for Kepha, when we read on into Gal. 2. "


So there is no calling of the plain old generic varity Gentile. Yeshua is not a light to the Gentiles as such but is a light to the dispersed Jews only. God leaves the Gentiles out cold, unless they go through the full rabbinical proces of conversion inluding circumcision.

I don't think so Yaphet. But if that is true it is great news for you and a few special people among the billions on this planet.

Charles

 

[simchat_torah]

So there is no calling of the plain old generic varity Gentile.

I did not say that, nor do I appreciate you reading into my words.

While there is a calling for the goy, this particular one is for the Jew and does not apply for the Goy.

Yeshua is not a light to the Gentiles as such but is a light to the dispersed Jews only.

While Y'shua is a light in some contexes, it is Israel who will be a light to the Nations. Y'shua came to restore that light to its proper place. Without Israel, there is no light to the nations.

God leaves the Gentiles out cold,

Again, you have spoken for me. There is a wonderful calling on the Gentile, and it is to be righteous and fulfill that which the "stranger in the land" is called to do. I know you desperately want to reject this calling and say that the Gentiles have replaced the Jews and they now have the Jewish calling... but that isn't so... G-d calls it perverted.

unless they go through the full rabbinical proces of conversion inluding circumcision.

Or by being a Tzaddakim, or by being a stranger in the land, and yes... also via conversion. I will not be the judge and declare which you, or any goy, should do. But I will not let you, or others, pervert the call of the Gentile and declare the calling of the Jew null and void (which in effect is what you're doing).

But if that is true it is great news for you and a few special people among the billions on this planet.

While Y'shua came as HaMoshiach Ben Yossef for the Jews, he will come as HaMoshiach ben David for all.

Shalom,
Yafet

 

[Zacharias]

How do you view this?

Romans 14 (The Complete Jewish Bible)

13*Therefore, let's stop passing judgment on each other! Instead, make this one judgment - not to put a stumbling block or a snare in a brother's way. 14*I know - that is, I have been persuaded by the Lord Yeshua the Messiah - that nothing is unclean in itself. But if a person considers something unclean, then for him it is unclean; 15*and if your brother is being upset by the food you eat, your life is no longer one of love. Do not, by your eating habits, destroy someone for whom the Messiah died! 16*Do not let what you know to be good, be spoken of as bad; 17*for the Kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness, shalom and joy in the Ruach HaKodesh. 18*Anyone who serves the Messiah in this fashion both pleases God and wins the approval of other people. 19*So then, let us pursue the things that make for shalom and mutual upbuilding. 20*Don't tear down God's work for the sake of food. True enough, all things are clean; but it is wrong for anybody by his eating to cause someone to fall away. 21*What is good is not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble. 22*The belief you hold about such things, keep between yourself and God. Happy the person who is free of self-condemnation when he approves of something! 23*But the doubter comes under condemnation if he eats, because his action is not based on trust. And anything not based on trust is a sin.


G-d Bless

 

[CharlesYTK]

Quote Yaphet:

"Again, you have spoken for me. There is a wonderful calling on the Gentile, and it is to be righteous and fulfill that which the "stranger in the land" is called to do. I know you desperately want to reject this calling and say that the Gentiles have replaced the Jews and they now have the Jewish calling... but that isn't so... G-d calls it perverted."



In a word...Hogwash! I do not support any sort of replacement theology. No where do I say that the Gentiles replace Jews, or their calling. Gentiles are called to stand along side with all of Israel, not replace them. Look, I know you are really impressed with Avi Ben Mordecai, but lets not place him on the same level as Moshe or the prophets.


Yaphet:

" But I will not let you, or others, pervert the call of the Gentile and declare the calling of the Jew null and void (which in effect is what you're doing)."



Nohing like that at all. Their calling is never going to change. However, they should open their eyes and step up to the plate instead of trying to erase Messiah Yeshua from history. The sages have been wrong about many things. They were wrong to kill the prophets, they were wrong about Messiah. It has been predominately Gentiles who have kept the testimony of Messiah going out to the world. Yes the Jews have a high calling and I believe that they will one day fulfill that calling. I hope and pray daily that it will be today. Yeshua died so that all men could be saved. Not just scattered Israel. We are all one before Him.

Yaphet, Achi Hari Belle was right.


Charles

 

[simchat_torah]

Look, I know you are really impressed with Avi Ben Mordecai, but lets not place him on the same level as Moshe or the prophets.

Haha... nice try at making a slighting jab under the belt, but it didn't work

Nohing like that at all. Their calling is never going to change. However, they should open their eyes and step up to the plate instead of trying to erase Messiah Yeshua from history.

Ahh... wonderful, now antismetic dogma.

It has been predominately Gentiles who have kept the testimony of Messiah going out to the world.

Of what messiah? A messiah who violates the Torah and teaches others to do the same? A messiah who says the Torah is null and void? A Messiah who institutes paganism into worship? A messiah who replaces the sabbath? etc etc etc?

ahh... yes, they are doing a bang up job.

Yes the Jews have a high calling and I believe that they will one day fulfill that calling.

Its not a matter of who has a 'higher' calling. It is a matter of fitting the shoe on the foot. We each are servants and have a job to fulfill.

Yeshua died so that all men could be saved. Not just scattered Israel. We are all one before Him.

If you want to talk about that, fine... but your garbage that I quoted above has got to go Charles, or our conversations will end.


-yafet

 

[simchat_torah]

Yaphet, Achi Hari Belle was right.

Yes... yes he was.

 

[JewishHeart]

Freak

17*for the Kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness, shalom and joy in the Ruach HaKodesh.

I believe this is the heart of the message of Shaul HaShaliach. I believe and keep Torah wholeheartedly, but these three things (righteousness in Yeshua's blood), shalom despite our circumstances, and joy in the Ruach are main principles of the kingdom of heaven. Yeshua should always be kept at the center. We all fall when it comes to keeping the 613. I only keep the laws I have revelation of myself. But I will never fall at loving my Messiah!!! Any orthodox rabi will say he never keeps all the mitzvot he needs to keep.

 

[Zacharias]

Thanks

 

[Henaynei]

Mod Hat ON​

Gentle Persons..... one (1) more post of a personal attack nature and this thread will be closed and the offender(s) warned.

Mod Hat OFF​

 

[JewishHeart]

I was also going to say that Shaul is teaching us not to judge. You see Romans was written to the Gentile believers. Gentile believers did not have to eat kosher according to Acts 21 ( but can if they choose to identify with Am Yisrael). Unfortunately, there was a lot of judging going on. Yeshua taught against judgement and so did Shaul. Shaul was basically saying here that Messiah is the center for these Gentile bretheren and the judging must stop! Messiah also should be the center for the Jewish believer, also knowing that their calling in Messiah Yeshua is to keep Torah. Either way, we know we have grace to fall back on because none of us can keep all the OT and NT mitzvot 24-7 required of us.

 

[KelsayDL]

Isn't it obvious after reading acts 10 that Yeshuas very disciples never took what happened in Mark to be a release from the dietary "laws".

I think it's readily apparent.

 

[ShirChadash]

*nod* ^ Yeah, that.