How do you handle it....

[ValleyGal]

Link, I think you completely misunderstood my post. I was taking your logic - the use of the verse that says a man who does not provide for his family is worse than a non-believer.

If that logic is applied to an unexpected pregnancy, the mother has no intention of providing for her child, so does that make abortion right, since she has no intention of providing? Of course not.

Or if that same person delivered, still not intending to provide, does it make it wrong to give the child to someone who then chooses of his own volition to raise that child on behalf of the parent/s who did not want it?

By your logic - don't have children (or donate sperm) unless you plan on providing for the child - both of the above scenarios are invalid. And yet we know adoption is perfectly valid - even in biblical times, if one parent was unable to provide (care, nurture, safety, etc) then they would give their children to someone who could, such as Moses. And many would say that abortion is valid as well (even if I disagree and think life starts at conception).

So sperm donation is not passing on your responsibility; rather, it is providing responsibility to those who do desire it. The responsibility is up to the one who receives the sperm - not the donor. In fact, this seems much more responsible than adoption, where children are born with no intention of supporting them - this actually DOES pass along responsibility that should be yours. However, I actually think it's perfectly responsible to put a child up for adoption as opposed to abort.

What I'm saying is that your logic makes no sense when applied to other situations about provision.

BTW, I never said anything about murdering children or deciding one day that you don't want them and won't provide for them anymore. That's simply immoral.

 

[Inkachu]

FWIW I think fertility treatments among the couple themselves are usually OK (though I think we're pushing more and more past ethical boundaries that should not be crossed, like fertilizing multiple eggs and then discarding or "reducing" some of them, which is abortion and murder IMO). But I do NOT think it's OK to bring in outside people (sperm donations, surrogate mothers, etc). I think that's tampering with nature and inserting ourselves into a place that belongs to God. Just my two cents.

 

[ceruleanbutterfly]

Inkachu, that is exactly where my problem lies! We aren't sure we can have our own children. If we can we will in a heart beat. We will not do selective abortion, and we will not fertilize or implant any more than we can handle. But we are feeling like organ donation is ok right? So how is it any different to have the donation of sperm? Versus the donation of blood?

 

[sdmsanjose]

By Inkachu
But I do NOT think it's OK to bring in outside people (sperm donations, surrogate mothers, etc).
I think that's tampering with nature and inserting ourselves into a place that belongs to God.

My father allows other people to be bought in to donate blood and the doctors insert the blood via transfusion. If these other people were not brought in as blood doners and the doctors not insert the blood my father would have been dead long ago.

We allow fertilization treatment. We allow life support systems, we allow birth control measures.

Is that tampering with nature?

 

[akmom]

I have family members who took the long road to adoption and this simply isn't true. Yes, there are many children who need homes, but most are not available for adoption. They're tied up in foster care. The ones who are adoptable are usually older children, have significant medical or emotional problems
Are they not adoptable children?

If everyone wants only the healthy babies, I guess that the non-healthy, non-babies get left in care. :/

Of course not. Older children, special needs children, and children in foreign countries deserve loving homes as much as healthy newborns. But it takes special resources to raise these children, and not every one has the ability. Infertility doesn't make a person specially qualified to raise special-needs children. Having a passion for that responsibility does. For the same reason that you (as far as I know) haven't taken in these kinds of children for adoption, the OP doesn't want to. Just like you and your husband wanted to raise a baby from the start, so does the OP. The fact that her husband has fertility problems does not mean that her dreams for parenthood have to morph into something that is quite different.

I say "fair shot at health," rather than "healthy baby," because no one is guaranteed a healthy baby. But when you have a child of your own, you can at least ensure that they will not suffer from FAS, second-hand smoke, or a host of other problems caused by poor maternal choices. Personally, I would not be up for those challenges, and it doesn't sound like the OP feels called to either.

 

[Hetta]

Of course not. Older children, special needs children, and children in foreign countries deserve loving homes as much as healthy newborns. But it takes special resources to raise these children, and not every one has the ability. Infertility doesn't make a person specially qualified to raise special-needs children. Having a passion for that responsibility does. For the same reason that you (as far as I know) haven't taken in these kinds of children for adoption, the OP doesn't want to. Just like you and your husband wanted to raise a baby from the start, so does the OP. The fact that her husband has fertility problems does not mean that her dreams for parenthood have to morph into something that is quite different.

I say "fair shot at health," rather than "healthy baby," because no one is guaranteed a healthy baby. But when you have a child of your own, you can at least ensure that they will not suffer from FAS, second-hand smoke, or a host of other problems caused by poor maternal choices. Personally, I would not be up for those challenges, and it doesn't sound like the OP feels called to either.

You make a good point that an infertile couple aren't automatically qualified to raise special needs children - but that doesn't mean they can't adopt older children who are not special needs. And I understand that the OP doesn't want to do that, that's why it was just a suggestion. I would not have immediately adopted if I couldn't have had children of my own. I would have absolutely gone the IVF route first - depending of course on the reason for infertility. But I would have adopted, and I would still like to adopt, but I think I may be too old now.

 

[akmom]

You make a good point that an infertile couple aren't automatically qualified to raise special needs children - but that doesn't mean they can't adopt older children who are not special needs.

Raising older children has challenges of its own. Some people are naturals, and really relate to children, and others may not be able to do that. With a newborn you start with a clean slate. With older children, you are working with the personality, expectations, interests, coping skills and standards that someone else instilled in that child. That requires an extreme degree of flexibility, patience, understanding and disappointment from the get-go. With a newborn, you connect and fall in love with them long before confronting these differences. Experience as a foster parent might help. But I would say it is a different experience than parenting a newborn.

 

[ceruleanbutterfly]

It is different. I have fallen in love with and parented both older and younger children and while I love all of my godchildren, nieces and nephews it is different when you know them from infancy.

 

[amyron]

Being in a relationship especially if you married can have so many issues. One of the most problem that couples are experiencing is spending money. There are so many relationship that has been broken because of money. All it takes is just a little concealed money to serve as the monkey wrench that ruins a happy marriage.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

How do you handle it when following the laws of the church destroys your dreams?

A law that has only been made up in the last 100 years is doing so much damage in my life. I want to follow Christ and His Church but it is getting harder and harder lately.

After talking to a priest that isn't our parish priest my husband is doing much better, and our marriage is much better. We are trying so hard to follow Christ and to obey Him.

Maybe if I explain it might help. My husband has azoospermia. That means he will never father a child and it is killing us. We are both ok with the idea of a donor but the church says no. I can't begin to tell you how not having a child is affecting us. It is destroying us. We want a family and we have been trying for almost four years to have our own, we have even made a pilgrimage to a monastery where the abbess has been known to help couples have children we have tried so many things.

We are desperate and at the end of our rope. We are ready to give up and go against our church and get a donor if that is what it takes. We want to stay faithful but at what cost?

As pretty much everybody here can tell you, fertility issues plagued my first marriage and was the start of the fracture that eventually lead to our divorce. It's hard to want to get pregnant and just not have it happen.

The choice of what to do, that's between you, your husband, and God. Think about finances, what you can stand for emotionally, what he can stand emotionally, and how much you're willing to put yourself through. And be willing to have that conversation pretty much daily, because it changes pretty much daily.

And, as hard and as weird as this is to say, think about being OK with no kids. Not because you'll never have them, because I'm sure one way or another, one day you will. But because at some point, the idea of being a parent completely takes over your entire thinking. It's hard to find an identity outside of trying to be a parent. By truly thinking about how you're not a parent right now, and being OK with it, and being OK with the idea that you don't have kids for awhile, you'll be able to put some focus back on the marriage, remove a lot of pressure, and remember why you chose each other to have children with in the first place.

There is no magic fix to what you're going through. No magic prayer. No way to fix the problems tomorrow. But you can get through it if you lean on each other and make the talk about something other than babies, children, and getting pregnant.

 

[CounselorForChrist]

think about being OK with no kids. Not because you'll never have them ... But because at some point, the idea of being a parent completely takes over your entire thinking

I'm going to copy that quote down. Its great.

 

[tall73]

God gave Moses laws for Israel. Iirc, somewhere in those laws, doesn't it state that if a woman is widowed before she has children, her brother in law is supposed to marry her and provide her with children? Even though her husband is dead, it seems to me to be a form of sperm donation. And there was also a social rule or law - I don't know which - whereby Sarai could offer her handmaid to Abraham so that he could have children through her. I'd say that's akin to egg donation and surrogacy. So surrogacy has been allowed by God in the past with his chosen Israel, why would he not allow it today in Canada?

As to the brother of the dead husband you are correct, and partly so that his name would not pass away or his inheritance in the land.

On the Sarah thing however, it was Abraham's attempt to get things done, but not by the way God said they would be, which was through a promise, and the mother specified was Sarah.

Now Abraham, though they were barren, had been promised a son. The OP has not, so I don't think we can really go on the same principle there. But I am not sure I would use the Sarah example.,

However, you should also live according to your beliefs. If you are heart-set on remaining with your church and denomination, you might want to have them provide counselling for you to provide you with ways of coping with your loss, rather than pursue surrogacy/donation. Others here have suggested adoption as an option, and there are a lot of children who have issues such as FAS in the system who need care. If you want a healthy child as an infant, there are likely waiting lists - I have a friend who works in adoption so i could find out how long the wait lists are...unless you can find one who is through a private lawyer.

The other option is foster care. You could open your home to children who have either lost both parents or who have to be removed from their parents' home due to safety issues. Child welfare is always looking for resource homes. The thing about becoming a resource home is that you should be willing to support the children in getting back together with their parents, and work with them to make that happen. This is a hard job when you have to let them either go back to their parents or go to an adoption home. You could even try this to see if it works for you and if not, move on to another option.

Although I am really glad that the church has helped you and your husband in your marriage, I am really sorry that you are struggling in this way and feeling so torn between what your church says and what your gut says.

Good advice.

 

[LinkH]

Inkachu, that is exactly where my problem lies! We aren't sure we can have our own children. If we can we will in a heart beat. We will not do selective abortion, and we will not fertilize or implant any more than we can handle. But we are feeling like organ donation is ok right? So how is it any different to have the donation of sperm? Versus the donation of blood?

You'd be taking another man's sperm into your body, bearing another man's child, giving birth to another man's child, raising another man's child. A man who is not your husband.

 

[Avniel]

Really? "Now go make a baby"? Do you understand how offensive and hurtful that is to someone who cannot do that? Or do you think that because you typed those words, you healed him. OMW.

Mark 9:23
Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

 

[Avniel]

Blind post have you tried any treatments

 

[LinkH]

Ceruleanbutterfly,
Also, there is something I wanted add a long time ago but never did. Making a pilgrimage doesn't heal, but God can heal through faith in Jesus Christ. The woman with the issue of blood touched Jesus' garment. Jesus probably brushed into people in the marketplace who didn't know who He was. They may not have all been healed of their hangnails or cancer if they happened to brush the hem of his garment. But this woman was different. She had faith. She believed she would be healed if she touched the hem of Jesus' garment, and she was healed. It's not the pilgrimages or the touching clothing. It's faith. Jesus felt God's power go out of Him when she believed God and touched His clothes.

 

[ChristianGolfer]

There should be a "no proselytizing" rule in this forum.

 

[Avniel]

There should be a "no proselytizing" rule in this forum.

Passive aggressive comment

 

[LinkH]

There should be a "no proselytizing" rule in this forum.

I don't know what you are talking about but this is Christian Forums.