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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
How do you feel about bigots on your side of the fence?
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vajradhara
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Namaste all,
mod, you can feel free to edit this post as you see fit
i was walking down the street, minding my own business and enjoying the lovely spring sunshine. as i turned the corner there were two ladies, one older (i'm guessing the mother) and one younger (the daughter?) dressed in their Sunday clothes. i say Sunday clothes because it was, well... Sunday.
nevertheless, they asked me if i had accepted Jesus, to which i responded.. well, actually no. we don't subscribe to the whole original sin concept. they were, as you may imagine, interested to hear why that was until i said the word "Buddhist". you would have thought that i had said something disparaging about their race or enthicity or something. nevertheless, we both left the conversation with them going to pray for me and with me promising to help them.
a few weeks later, there was a knock on my door. considering where i lived at the time, it was a bit unusual. nevertheless, upon opening it were two Mormon missonaries. tangent.. i find it quite interesting that they mission in America.. nevertheless, they asked me roughly the same questions and i again politely explained that i was very happy with my faith tradition and that i saw no need to "update" it, as it were. a very good discussion ensued where we, i thought, were able to exchange some views on various topics. in the end, they enjoyed my iced tea but were not successful in acquiring more money for the church coffers.
in both cases, two things really came out to me..
1. how much of an honest and open conversation is one likely to become engaged in whilst walking down the street and being accosted by strangers?
2. er... the second probably should be said... but i will... (mod edit as you see fit). the audactiy of their actions was pretty amazing, all things being equal. of course, i realize that they are compelled to do so by their religious convictions however, even so, it was still surprising to me... and i spent a lot of time in the so-called "Bible belt".
overall, i didn't feel intimidated or threatened by them though their sales tactics were pretty sloppy
mod, you can feel free to edit this post as you see fit
i was walking down the street, minding my own business and enjoying the lovely spring sunshine. as i turned the corner there were two ladies, one older (i'm guessing the mother) and one younger (the daughter?) dressed in their Sunday clothes. i say Sunday clothes because it was, well... Sunday.
nevertheless, they asked me if i had accepted Jesus, to which i responded.. well, actually no. we don't subscribe to the whole original sin concept. they were, as you may imagine, interested to hear why that was until i said the word "Buddhist". you would have thought that i had said something disparaging about their race or enthicity or something. nevertheless, we both left the conversation with them going to pray for me and with me promising to help them.
a few weeks later, there was a knock on my door. considering where i lived at the time, it was a bit unusual. nevertheless, upon opening it were two Mormon missonaries. tangent.. i find it quite interesting that they mission in America.. nevertheless, they asked me roughly the same questions and i again politely explained that i was very happy with my faith tradition and that i saw no need to "update" it, as it were. a very good discussion ensued where we, i thought, were able to exchange some views on various topics. in the end, they enjoyed my iced tea but were not successful in acquiring more money for the church coffers.
in both cases, two things really came out to me..
1. how much of an honest and open conversation is one likely to become engaged in whilst walking down the street and being accosted by strangers?
2. er... the second probably should be said... but i will... (mod edit as you see fit). the audactiy of their actions was pretty amazing, all things being equal. of course, i realize that they are compelled to do so by their religious convictions however, even so, it was still surprising to me... and i spent a lot of time in the so-called "Bible belt".
overall, i didn't feel intimidated or threatened by them though their sales tactics were pretty sloppy
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We're not all like that. You were probably the first buddhist they had ever seen or talked to in their lives. To them buddhism is something they read about somewhere. They know buddhists are in China. That's about it. Now, if they were in the bible belt, to me meaning somewhere in the South, there probably is a good reason why they don't know anything about you. Studying Buddhism in hickville usually isn't going to be a profitable endeavor. Think of a redneck in China. No, I'm not trying to slight the situation. Really, think about it.
The chinese probably only know of cowboys by means of overdubbed John Wayne movies.
It's a culture clash. Everyone needs to have some patience with everyone.
Granted, as a CHristian, I believe we are called to use the best of our abilities on earth. That means your brain too. If you're going to ask someone a religious question, you better be ready to talk religion. Most Christians don't even know what's in the bible much less anything else beyond Christianity. This is sad.
Mormons train the people they send out to do the job they're sent out to do. Me? I could go out right now and start knocking on doors no matter how underqualified or undereducated I am to do such a thing. I'm a grumpy punk with a big mouth. No church in their right minds would look at me and say, "He's our man to evangelize the local hispanic population."
The chinese probably only know of cowboys by means of overdubbed John Wayne movies.
It's a culture clash. Everyone needs to have some patience with everyone.
Granted, as a CHristian, I believe we are called to use the best of our abilities on earth. That means your brain too. If you're going to ask someone a religious question, you better be ready to talk religion. Most Christians don't even know what's in the bible much less anything else beyond Christianity. This is sad.
Mormons train the people they send out to do the job they're sent out to do. Me? I could go out right now and start knocking on doors no matter how underqualified or undereducated I am to do such a thing. I'm a grumpy punk with a big mouth. No church in their right minds would look at me and say, "He's our man to evangelize the local hispanic population."
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vajradhara
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Namaste mr.cheeze,
thanks for the post.
actually, i was in maryland when this occurred... interestingly enough, not once whilst i was living in the American South was i approached or was my door knocked upon.
i completely agree with you, most folks think that Buddhism is something from India... though i'd go with China as well. however, cowboys and Christians are not the same, eh? i can accept that Buddhism is relatively new to the west in general and America in particular, that is slowly changing.
you may be surprised to know of the situation of Christians in China. the underground churchs with the bishops that get many years of forced hard labor.. Red China, as a whole, is not interested in religion of any sort.
thanks for the post.
actually, i was in maryland when this occurred... interestingly enough, not once whilst i was living in the American South was i approached or was my door knocked upon.
i completely agree with you, most folks think that Buddhism is something from India... though i'd go with China as well. however, cowboys and Christians are not the same, eh? i can accept that Buddhism is relatively new to the west in general and America in particular, that is slowly changing.
you may be surprised to know of the situation of Christians in China. the underground churchs with the bishops that get many years of forced hard labor.. Red China, as a whole, is not interested in religion of any sort.
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In studying minor religions I learned that confucianism and taoism took a big hit when the communists moved in. You're right. They have no interest in religion.
Jesus' contemporaries were other Jews for the most part. When he was engaged in conversation with them, he knew what he was talking about. Paul, a diaspora Jew, understood the gentile culture. He understood the surrounding cultures and was well educated. It was he or Peter who said, "Always be ready to give a reason for the hope you have." Most of us, myself included, are anemic in this area, as you have found. I am working on learning as I should have been years ago. I believe it is my duty as a Christian to understand the people around me.
Most of my exposure to Buddhism, oddly enough, was from reading Jack Kerouac. And I know it's founder was a reformer of Brahmanism named Siddharta Gautama.
*edited cause cheese can't type
Jesus' contemporaries were other Jews for the most part. When he was engaged in conversation with them, he knew what he was talking about. Paul, a diaspora Jew, understood the gentile culture. He understood the surrounding cultures and was well educated. It was he or Peter who said, "Always be ready to give a reason for the hope you have." Most of us, myself included, are anemic in this area, as you have found. I am working on learning as I should have been years ago. I believe it is my duty as a Christian to understand the people around me.
Most of my exposure to Buddhism, oddly enough, was from reading Jack Kerouac. And I know it's founder was a reformer of Brahmanism named Siddharta Gautama.
*edited cause cheese can't type
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vajradhara
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Namaste mr. cheese,
thank you for the post.
hehe... "minor" is certainly a matter of perspective nevertheless, the state institutions of religion (China did that kinda thing back in the day) consisting Taoism, Confucianism and Buddhism all suffered greatly during the Cultural Revloution. The unsponsored religions of Christanity, Islam, Hindusim and so forth were brutally oppressed... more so that the ex-state religions.
it would not be correct to say that Buddhism was a reformation of Brahmaisim, though often times that is how it is protrayed in the West. this is mainly due to our familiarity with the Protestant Reformation and the Catholic Church more so than a real divergence of Buddhism and Brahmaism. in a very loose sense, i suppose that a case can be made that it is a "protestant" religion (protesting Brahmaism) however, that is _very_ loose
ahh... yes, the "dharma bums" of the 50's it's an accurate statement that they were responsible for bringing the American awareness to Buddhism (Zen in particular) though, often the writings that they wrote were not doctrinally sound eh, but that's often a technical matter.
thank you for the post.
hehe... "minor" is certainly a matter of perspective
nevertheless, the state institutions of religion (China did that kinda thing back in the day) consisting Taoism, Confucianism and Buddhism all suffered greatly during the Cultural Revloution. The unsponsored religions of Christanity, Islam, Hindusim and so forth were brutally oppressed... more so that the ex-state religions.it would not be correct to say that Buddhism was a reformation of Brahmaisim, though often times that is how it is protrayed in the West. this is mainly due to our familiarity with the Protestant Reformation and the Catholic Church more so than a real divergence of Buddhism and Brahmaism. in a very loose sense, i suppose that a case can be made that it is a "protestant" religion (protesting Brahmaism) however, that is _very_ loose
ahh... yes, the "dharma bums" of the 50's
it's an accurate statement that they were responsible for bringing the American awareness to Buddhism (Zen in particular) though, often the writings that they wrote were not doctrinally sound eh, but that's often a technical matter.
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twosid
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It sounds like what you encountered was a religious jerk. Most likely not a Christian at all and if so a very immature one. God desires for you to know Him and He loves you more than you have the capability to understand. He would never send someone as a representative of His son who would say something like that to you. On the other hand the devil who desires that you never come to know God would absolutely love for someone like this to come to your home and for it to be a stumbling block between you and God. The devil wants nothing more than for you to die an atheist. The battle is spiritual and it is encouraging that you frightened the enemy enough to warrant this visit. If God is drawing you to Him then don't resist it.
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wblastyn
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That guy was a idiot and you have every right to be angry at someone (especially a Christian) who tells you he is going to pray for you to go to hell. Although it may be hard to believe from some of the responses you got *cough*sunstone*cough* we aren't all like that. Oh and believe me, if I ever left Christianity it would most likely be because of other Christians being stupid like this one.
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wblastyn
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Miss the point much? The guy was supposed to be a Christian, therefore he is expected to act with love which he clearly didn't. Oh and anyone spitting on someone else is bad, but then seeing how some Christians act I wouldn't be surprised if he was provoked.SUNSTONE said:
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wblastyn
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I am an "evolutionist" (evolution does not equal atheism) and none of us think animals can talk. I realise this was probably a joke, but it was stupid. Don't give up your day job.SUNSTONE said:Its those darn evolutionists, they had me believing that animals can talk.
Now I'm going back to bed.
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