How do you differentiate the voice of God from the devil?

[Colter]

For some, I think it goes something like this;

If the voice tells you what you want to hear, it is God. If the voice tells you something you don't want to hear, it is the devil.

Its actually often the opposite, Gods way may prove more difficult in the short term but ultimately leads to long term self respect and life eternal. The Atheist way is easier and softer, there is no higher authority.

 

[bhsmte]

Its actually often the opposite, Gods way may prove more difficult in the short term but ultimately leads to long term self respect and life eternal. The Atheist way is easier and softer, there is no higher authority.

Atheist way is easier?

I would assume you have knowledge of the moral compass inside every atheist?

 

[niye]

How about killing unborn people? Do you think this is moral?? Just say they aren't people, because certain scientists say they aren't??????

You're uncomfortable with that whole slavery thing, and I sympathize:

"Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property" Exodus 21:20-21.

Bringing up the unborn does nothing to get rid of passages like this. There are plenty of them in Exodus; if slavery is bad, wait till you hear what the voice of god tells the Hebrews to do to various conquered cities.

The Bible gives guidelines on how to manage a slave owner if he beats someone to death. It does not say he should do it. There is the issue of if and how he needs to be punished. So, it does not directly say it is moral.

The directive is meant to be heard with God's voice of love . . . so the people realize God does not want them to beat slaves to death. There is the purpose of the commandment . . . that it does not happen.

So when God says you can only be punished IF your slaves die within a certain period of time after a beating, but not after (dying after three days is OK; being permanently crippled, scarred is OK, etc.) this means you shouldn't beat your slaves? Sorry, but God is telling you that:
1. It's ok to own slaves; the beating is acceptable because the slave is by definition your property.
2. It's ok to beat slaves, within some limits, because, again, your slave is your property.

There's no other way around that.

Secular morality can include that it's ok to kill the unborn and just say they aren't human and this makes it ok. But not all secular people have the same morals; so it is not ok to try to speak for everyone else!! That's not moral, either.

...

Again, bringing up the unborn does not erase Biblical slavery, or other very nasty stuff in the Bible. God tells you it's ok to keep slaves. God kills all the first-born of Egypt, but not the pharaoh. God orders his people to murder the inhabitants of Canaanite cities. God orders believers to kill children who curse their parents, sorcerers, people who don't worship him. He curses every descendent of Adam and Eve, whether they ate the apple, or not. Read Exodus. Read Leviticus. Read Genesis.


It's a book of its time. Like every book, there are bits that are beautiful and universal--humans are humans, whether Bronze Age or modern. Like every book, there are bits that are culturally specific. The acceptance of slavery, of polygamy, of a curse that moves from parents to children, of an army's right to loot, rape, murder people in besieged cities are all culturally specific, and sound horrifying today.

Whether a Christian, Jew, or Muslim could tell the voice of god from the voice of a devil is dubious, given what they have to work with.

 

[Colter]

Atheist way is easier?

I would assume you have knowledge of the moral compass inside every atheist?

LOL! Why yes I do, it's God your Father, you just don't acknowledge him, rather you plagiarize his emanations, ascribing them to atomic phenomenon.

 

[bhsmte]

LOL! Why yes I do, it's God your Father, you just don't acknowledge him, rather you plagiarize his emanations, ascribing them to atomic phenomenon.

And please explain, how this gives you insight and specific knowledge into the moral compass inside every atheist.

 

[Colter]

And please explain, how this gives you insight and specific knowledge into the moral compass inside every atheist.

Not the specific moral choices, only the source of value perception in the high consciousness, it's made possible by the spirit of the adjutant of worship, the primordial human instinct for Deity.

In short, a persons ability to perceive values is innate in the fact that you are yourself a son of God while you may not yet realize this ennobling truth.

 

[bhsmte]

Not the specific moral choices, only the source of value perception in the high consciousness, it's made possible by the spirit of the adjutant of worship, the primordial human instinct for Deity.

In short, a persons ability to perceive values is innate in the fact that you are yourself a son of God while you may not yet realize this ennobling truth.

Please provide evidence to support how atheists make moral choices, how they perceive value etc. etc.

This is where, some credible psychological sources discussing the same would come in handy.

 

[Colter]

Please provide evidence to support how atheists make moral choices, how they perceive value etc. etc.

This is where, some credible psychological sources discussing the same would come in handy.

Same hiding place, different day.

 

[bhsmte]

Same hiding place, different day.

No evidence then?

Anything besides a book written by celestial beings?

 

[Colter]

No evidence then?

Anything besides a book written by celestial beings?

No more evidence than you have that consciousness is derived from atomic matter.

 

[bhsmte]

No more evidence than you have that consciousness is derived from atomic matter.

Again, no evidence, thanks.

 

[com7fy8]

Sorry, but God is telling you that:
1. It's ok to own slaves; the beating is acceptable because the slave is by definition your property.
2. It's ok to beat slaves, within some limits, because, again, your slave is your property.

There's no other way around that.

It says it is ok to buy a child from a family who voluntarily sells their child. It does not say it is ok to kidnap a man and sell him. Kidnapping and selling is a capital offense in the law of Moses.

And I consider this meant that one could beat a slave if the slave committed something rebellious.

Again, bringing up the unborn does not erase Biblical slavery, or other very nasty stuff in the Bible.

That is right; it does not erase slavery, nor does slavery erase abortion.

God tells you it's ok to keep slaves. God kills all the first-born of Egypt, but not the pharaoh. God orders his people to murder the inhabitants of Canaanite cities. God orders believers to kill children who curse their parents, sorcerers, people who don't worship him. He curses every descendent of Adam and Eve, whether they ate the apple, or not. Read Exodus. Read Leviticus. Read Genesis.

yes yes and yes I am familiar with these, already.

It's a book of its time. Like every book, there are bits that are beautiful and universal--humans are humans, whether Bronze Age or modern. Like every book, there are bits that are culturally specific. The acceptance of slavery, of polygamy, of a curse that moves from parents to children, of an army's right to loot, rape, murder people in besieged cities are all culturally specific, and sound horrifying today.

Well, a country may be ok with killing thousands of noncombatants, rather than have their own soldiers killed. And it this because the leaders value the lives of their soldiers, or are they being practical, knowing how much time and money it takes to train them?

Whether a Christian, Jew, or Muslim could tell the voice of god from the voice of a devil is dubious, given what they have to work with.

Gentle and humble and kind is God's voice, but if you live in sin things are not fair. It can be better, what God has you do, than what will happen if sin's kingdom takes care of things . . . the way it would.

It can be like a forest fire needing a backfire built to stop it. The backfire is destructive, yes yes yes.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

...
Well, a country may be ok with killing thousands of noncombatants, rather than have their own soldiers killed. And it this because the leaders value the lives of their soldiers, or are they being practical, knowing how much time and money it takes to train them?

Do you think 9/11 was morally justified? Because it seems to fit your definition.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

How about killing unborn people? Do you think this is moral?? Just say they aren't people, because certain scientists say they aren't??????

Please don't try to change the subject. We were discussing God's condoning beating defenseless women and children to death.

The Bible gives guidelines on how to manage a slave owner if he beats someone to death. It does not say he should do it. There is the issue of if and how he needs to be punished. So, it does not directly say it is moral.

It says if the slave doesn't die in the first day or two, there shall be no punishment. In other words, it's fine and dandy.

The directive is meant to be heard with God's voice of love . . . so the people realize God does not want them to beat slaves to death. There is the purpose of the commandment . . . that it does not happen.

That makes no sense.

If that's what God meant, why couldn't He just say "Thou shall not beat slaves to death!"?

You are making God out to be mentally deficient.

 

[com7fy8]

No, it does not say it is "fine and dandy" for a slave owner to beat a slave woman or slave child to death.

The intention of the laws is that people be kind to each other, so that punishments will not be necessary.

And we have seen that some number of people have not been changed by being punished. One's character is not going to be changed by a punishment. What I believe can work is family way of sharing and communicating to correct a person . . . using a family setting to help a person become a family and kind person.

But this can work only with Jesus. And in the early scripture time Jesus had not yet come to die for us and bring us to God. And we see how nothing worked really right, then . . . not even God's own interventions, with kindness or with slaughtering enemy people. Even God Himself without His Son Jesus could not make things really right.

People need how Jesus in us makes us become kind, in our character, His nature shared with us > Galatians 4:19.

I think this is part of the point of the early scriptures. Nothing worked, in the early scriptures, to get people to become loving and kind. Without Jesus, nothing works.

"For without Me you can do nothing," He says in John 15:5.

So, yes we need to understand things with the voice of His kindness making His word clear. You say to stay with the subject. The subject if this thread is not slavery, but how to know the voice of God. And we know His voice by having His kind understanding of the scriptures, using each scripture to help us become kind with any and all people, however this works. Every scripture has this application, directly or indirectly.

 

[com7fy8]

Also, using the quoted slavery scripture for just one example, for how to hear God's voice in reading scripture . . .

Yes, it does not say to punish a slave owner if his slave dies of a beating more than a day after the beating.

We see how we can be tempted to judge this and criticize this.

But we need to be humble in how we evaluate and understand what God says. So, I can see this rule is a set-up to help us learn how to be humble in how we read and understand God's word. God knows ones would make themselves the judges of His word; and He knows how ones would love to punish the man; so He has things in His word, to resist how prideful people are. "It is an opening to show that God would rather have people learn how to love, than only punish people who do what is wrong."

The "missing punishment" shows that God has something better in mind . . . how Jesus would take all our punishments on Himself, rather than hurt us and make us suffer and die for our sins.

I am not God's judge!! There are those with a double standard. They say it is ok to kill an unborn person, yet they make a big stink about a man killing a slave child or slave woman and not being punished.

And then, on top of this, ones will say God is unfair and unkind. This is not coming from God's voice.

There are plenty of sins which are not named in the early scriptures. There are therefore no punishments given for these sins. For example, arguing (Philippians 2:14) is not named as a sin to be punished. Gossip can be very harmful and cruel; yet, gossip is not named with a punishment, in the early scriptures. Yet, arguing and gossip can be more destructive than death, because it can cause harm worse than only your body dying. But there is no punishment in the Old Testament for arguing or gossip.

So, the fact that a wrong thing does not have a punishment in the Bible does not mean it is ok to do that wrong thing. Like this, then, even if a wrong thing does not have a punishment for it, this does not mean God is ok with that wrong thing.

Our example of not punishing a man for killing a slave is possibly such an example.

It is wrong, yes, but no punishment for it does not mean it is ok. There is always a built-in punishment for any sin, actually. In such a case, the person loses a slave which he paid for. Also, he loses out by not having self-control. He will suffer in his relationships with family members and friends, because of his bad self-control.

But punishing him will not make him become real in love. Ones reading this commandment can realize that God is showing that punishment is not enough. If one will be allowed to not be punished, this means others in his family and community are needed to help him in a family way of relating, to help him find out how to love. This can be done before he gets to the point of killing a slave. Others can hear this rule and realize they need to help each other, in order to prevent such a thing from happening.

So, like with this commandment, we need to hear the voice of love and humility in how we understand each commandment

And this manner of approaching God's word can help us in how to deal with things of our lives. Hear His voice of compassion, first, with humility. And seek how we can handle things best in a family caring and sharing approach with wrong things and wrong people . . . so that our example can help to win wrong people to our Father's family caring and sharing and forgiving way of taking care of problems.