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How do we support Israel and not support violence?

OldWiseGuy

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I think I understand you - "promise" being a reference to non-land inheritance whereas promised land being the land itself

Yes. The Abrahamic promises are often called race and grace, part spiritual, part physical. The spiritual promise referred to the messiah and was called the scepter, referring to the future lordship of the messiah. The material promise was called the birthright and referred to material wealth and power. The scepter promise was committed to the tribe of Judah (the Jews), the birthright promise given to the tribe of Joseph.

Genesis 49:10

The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

1 Chronicles 5:1-2

"Now the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel, (for he was the firstborn; but forasmuch as he defiled his father's bed, his birthright was given unto the sons of Joseph the son of Israel: and the genealogy is not to be reckoned after the birthright.

For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and of him (would come) the chief ruler; but the birthright was Joseph's."
 
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HonestTruth

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What makes somebody a Jew and therefore entitled to the land? I'm sure if most people looked back at their genealogy, they could find somebody related to Abraham. So if it was based on blood, then a large amount of the human populates is entitled to the land. If it is religion then denying Christ is acceptable.



see my earlier post which includes quotes from the New Testament which shows that all who acknowledge Jesus as Messiah are fellow heirs to the Promised Land - no one is entitled to usurp the Land as only the Messiah can recreate the Kingdom
 
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Percivale

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If you watch only Fox news, they would have you believe that the Jews in Israel are humble, peaceful and only use force in self defense.

There is a ton of evidence that there is a huge amount of violence towards Palestinians and Muslims in general by the Israeli army.

We as Christians believe that we should support (or bless) Israel, but at the same time, we are compelled to live like Jesus and love all people...even our enemies.

So tell me: how do we support Israel and oppose the violence that is happening? Obviously, we are to pray for peace in Jerusalem, but I am looking at the bigger picture here.
You could plug any people group in here and have the same result: How do we support blacks and not support violence. How do we support police and not support violence. How do we support Palestinians and not support violence, Or America, or in the past either settlers or native americans, and on and on. Every people group has done violence at some time, and in every case we don't have to support everything someone has done to support them.
 
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HonestTruth

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Percivale said:
You could plug any people group in here and have the same result: How do we support blacks and not support violence. How do we support police and not support violence. How do we support Palestinians and not support violence, Or America, or in the past either settlers or native americans, and on and on. Every people group has done violence at some time, and in every case we don't have to support everything someone has done to support them.



You would be very pressed to find any of these others justifying themselves or their actions in the name of the Bible.
 
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HonestTruth

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Percivale

Sam
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You would be very pressed to find any of these others justifying themselves or their actions in the name of the Bible.
So maybe what the op really was saying is, "should we support the things Israel did to regain their land?" I definitely do not support all they did, though I do support the existence of Israel.
 
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peepnklown

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So tell me: how do we support Israel and oppose the violence that is happening?
Are you asking should Christianity support Israel or should The US support Israel?
I will assume since you posted this in the ‘philosophy’ section of the forum you are asking for former.
As a Christian why do you think you should support Israel?
Israel of the bible and the modern day State of Israel are very different things.
If you would like a more detailed explanation please ask.
Thanks a lot.
 
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peepnklown

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We support Israel because they are a consistent ally in the middle east...something that we don't have in other middle eastern countries mainly because of how we treat them.
This seems like a political discussion. I would love to discuss this further with you. If you want to start a topic in the political part of this forum please let me know. Thanks a lot.
 
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Percivale

Sam
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Are you asking should Christianity support Israel or should The US support Israel?
I will assume since you posted this in the ‘philosophy’ section of the forum you are asking for former.
As a Christian why do you think you should support Israel?
Israel of the bible and the modern day State of Israel are very different things.
If you would like a more detailed explanation please ask.
Thanks a lot.
An important distinction, though it's possible for both to have the same answer. If Israel has freedom and civilization in a region those tend to be lacking both Christians and US citizens have a reason to support it. Support of course means not supporting everything they do, but supporting what they do that is good and resisting the bad others do to them.
 
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peepnklown

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An important distinction, though it's possible for both to have the same answer.
As a Christian do you feel you need to support the State of Israel? If you do, then why? I am curious.
 
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Percivale

Sam
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As a Christian do you feel you need to support the State of Israel? If you do, then why? I am curious.
As a Christian I feel a duty to contribute to the improvement of the world, and I think the state of Israel is an improvement on the state of nations in the middle east. I also think God still has some special plan for Israel, though I don't know just what that will look like or how I could contribute to it.
 
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peepnklown

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As a Christian I feel a duty to contribute to the improvement of the world, and I think the state of Israel is an improvement on the state of nations in the middle east. I also think God still has some special plan for Israel, though I don't know just what that will look like or how I could contribute to it.
Thanks for your reply.
How is the state of Israel an improvement on the state of nations in the Middle East?
As a Christian do you think your support for Israel should be something personal and or as something Christianity should support or you do think the US as a nation needs to share such support as well?
 
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lupusFati

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So tell me: how do we support Israel and oppose the violence that is happening? Obviously, we are to pray for peace in Jerusalem, but I am looking at the bigger picture here.

How do you support your own nation but oppose the violence it inflicts? There's your answer, then.
 
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Percivale

Sam
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Thanks for your reply.
How is the state of Israel an improvement on the state of nations in the Middle East?
As a Christian do you think your support for Israel should be something personal and or as something Christianity should support or you do think the US as a nation needs to share such support as well?
Israel has the most freedom of religion and speech, and the most advanced economy. I think those are all important. Being closer to Western values also makes it a more dependable ally to the US than Arab nations, and one that is less likely to allow terrorists to gather and plot against us.
 
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peepnklown

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I think those are all important. Being closer to Western values also makes it a more dependable ally to the US than Arab nations, and one that is less likely to allow terrorists to gather and plot against us.
I have to disagree.
We have no tangible alliance on paper. No legally obligatory document exists. Yet this is a small point.
Look up the Lavon Affair.
Look up the USS Liberty incident.
Israel also spies on us. Yes, they SPY on us. They stole enriched uranium from us.
The US intelligence communities believe that Israel had prior knowledge of some parts relating to 9/11 yet said nothing.
The Mossad used US passports and pretended to be Americans to recruit terrorists to carry out attacks inside Iran.
They have been caught stealing American technology.
These are just a few of what our ‘ally’ has done.
 
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Percivale

Sam
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I have to disagree.
We have no tangible alliance on paper. No legally obligatory document exists. Yet this is a small point.
Look up the Lavon Affair.
Look up the USS Liberty incident.
Israel also spies on us. Yes, they SPY on us. They stole enriched uranium from us.
The US intelligence communities believe that Israel had prior knowledge of some parts relating to 9/11 yet said nothing.
The Mossad used US passports and pretended to be Americans to recruit terrorists to carry out attacks inside Iran.
They have been caught stealing American technology.
These are just a few of what our ‘ally’ has done.
I've never said they are perfect, only that they are better than surrounding nations. China's been stealing tech from us and such too, but we're still on pretty good terms. Israel at least doesn't fund terrorists to fly planes into our buildings and such.
 
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peepnklown

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I've never said they are perfect, only that they are better than surrounding nations. China's been stealing tech from us and such too, but we're still on pretty good terms. Israel at least doesn't fund terrorists to fly planes into our buildings and such.
WOW. First, China is not an ally. Thus, we will have to leave them out of our discussion.
Second, the surrounding nations in the Middle East are not our allies as well.
We are talking about Israel.
It’s not about being perfect.
USS Liberty incident! Israeli armed forces killed 34 Americans and wounded 171.
Lavon Affair! Israeli military intelligence recruited Egyptian Jews to plant bombs inside American civilian targets!
They stole uranium from us! URANIUM. What do you think that is for?
They tried to blame America for attacks inside Iran. If successful would have caused a war which would have cost American lives!
They didn’t even give us the common courtesy of warning us about 9/11 which cost American lives.
Oh well, they are not perfect.
No! This is unacceptable.
 
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