• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

How do we make sustainable environments? Is "Evolution" always the most applicable?

Subduction Zone

Regular Member
Dec 17, 2012
32,629
12,069
✟230,471.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
I think he means your 'faith' in evolution, which hasn't seemed to help the environment very much. It's hard to see the big picture through a microscope.
Then perhaps he should drop the personal attacks. In the world of science no one accepts the theory of evolution on faith. Acceptance is based upon evidence. Those that believe in creationism have to do so by faith and far too often they attack others with the falsehood that they accept evolution on faith. One should never assume that others have the same weaknesses as one has himself.
 
Reactions: Speedwell
Upvote 0

FrumiousBandersnatch

Well-Known Member
Mar 20, 2009
15,405
8,143
✟349,182.00
Faith
Atheist
Mutations, for all intents and purposes, occur randomly - the environment is relevant in selecting which mutations will persist in the population. The environment may significantly influence mutation rate in some organisms due to their response to environmental stress.

You can bite or not bite on whatever you like. My aim here is to point out and/or correct obvious misunderstandings and misinterpretations - such as your presentation of 'straight up' evolution.
 
Upvote 0

Shemjaza

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Apr 17, 2006
6,458
3,994
47
✟1,112,208.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
AU-Greens
I think he means your 'faith' in evolution, which hasn't seemed to help the environment very much. It's hard to see the big picture through a microscope.
Doesn't seem to be what he means.

And that is both insulting and obviously wrong.

The casual scorn that many creationists have for the environment and any attempt to help our protect it leaves your attempt to smear scientists unconvincing as usual.
 
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,976
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟1,005,212.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Doesn't seem to be what he means.

And that is both insulting and obviously wrong.

The casual scorn that many creationists have for the environment and any attempt to help our protect it leaves your attempt to smear scientists unconvincing as usual.

Scientists are in charge of the environment, not creationists. Most creationists would favor saving and improving the environment but have no power to do so. It seems that scientists would rather study the decline of the environment than save it.

Speaking as an observer for the need for local action I can tell you that science is doing little for the environment. As I said they are looking at the world through a microscope. They should get out more.
 
Upvote 0

pitabread

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2017
12,920
13,373
Frozen North
✟344,333.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
Scientists are in charge of the environment, not creationists.

Scientists aren't in charge of the environment. Politicians are.

Speaking as an observer for the need for local action I can tell you that science is doing little for the environment. As I said they are looking at the world through a microscope. They should get out more.

This is an incredibly ignorant comment about scientists. I don't think you know what they actually do.
 
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,976
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟1,005,212.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Scientists aren't in charge of the environment. Politicians are.

Politicians act upon the advice of scientists, not creationists. For example scientists countenance the horrid mess that logging does to our forests. Creationists would 'dress and keep' the forests, which is absolutely necessary in the effort to sequester carbon.

This is an incredibly ignorant comment about scientists. I don't think you know what they actually do.

I guess you'd have to be here (in my 'learning tree') to see what they are not doing. Of course it's not their fault as they aren't trained to deal with the obvious.
 
Upvote 0

Speedwell

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2016
23,928
17,626
82
St Charles, IL
✟347,280.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
Politicians act upon the advice of scientists, not creationists. For example scientists countenance the horrid mess that logging does to our forests.
Scientists are in favor of clear-cut logging??? I find that hard to believe.
Creationists would 'dress and keep' the forests, which is absolutely necessary in the effort to sequester carbon.
There are no fundamentalist Evangelicals involved in clear-cut logging??? I find that even harder to believe, because I know some.
 
Upvote 0

pitabread

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2017
12,920
13,373
Frozen North
✟344,333.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private

Unsupported, sweeping generalizations.

I guess you'd have to be here (in my 'learning tree') to see what they are not doing. Of course it's not their fault as they aren't trained to deal with the obvious.

More sweeping generalizations. You still appear to have no understanding of what scientists actually do.
 
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,976
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟1,005,212.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Scientists are in favor of clear-cut logging??? I find that hard to believe.

I don't see them protesting it where I live. Forest management is a science.

There are no fundamentalist Evangelicals involved in clear-cut logging??? I find that even harder to believe, because I know some.

What are their names?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,976
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟1,005,212.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
More sweeping generalizations. You still appear to have no understanding of what scientists actually do.

It's what they aren't doing that concerns me.
 
Upvote 0

Hans Blaster

Hood was a loser.
Mar 11, 2017
21,592
16,293
55
USA
✟409,899.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politicians act upon the advice of scientists, not creationists.

Why would anyone seek the advice of creationists about anything? (Note, that I'm not talking of those who believe in creationism, but rather the "professionals" like Ken Ham and his ilk.)

Creationism isn't a body of knowledge or a system of studying consequences of actions. It is religion. [While I don't care for it, you are free to have yours, and so is everyone else.]
 
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,976
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟1,005,212.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Is there a lot of clear-cut logging in Dane County?

The Black River State Forest in Jackson county, or as I like to call it the Black River State Clear-cut.
 
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,976
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟1,005,212.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
What should they be doing? What do you think the role of scientists is in society?

They should be effective advocates for the proper use of their discoveries. Perhaps they could start with opioids.
 
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,976
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟1,005,212.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others


Creationism is that part of religion that deals with the physical earth.

What I mean by creationist in this sense is a spirit-led person making spirit-led decisions about the stewardship of the earth. Adam was (to be) the first human creationist/environmentalist, as his job was to 'dress and keep' the garden

Regarding logging practices,

Scientific method: Clear cut tracts using heavy machinery that leaves large permanent ruts in the ground, cuts and cleans logs into uniform lengths, then leaves the slash to decompose above ground releasing it's carbon into the air (the slash often equals the weight of the usable log).

Creationist method: Selective harvesting using machinery that doesn't leave ruts, and intensive hand labor (volunteers from prisons), slash is chipped and buried (carbon is sequestered).
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Hans Blaster

Hood was a loser.
Mar 11, 2017
21,592
16,293
55
USA
✟409,899.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
The Black River State Forest in Jackson county, or as I like to call it the Black River State Clear-cut.

2+ hours away, doesn't sound real close. More importantly, scientists are way to busy to be protesting.
 
Upvote 0

Hans Blaster

Hood was a loser.
Mar 11, 2017
21,592
16,293
55
USA
✟409,899.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private

MOre standard usages really help with comprehension. I've heard people cite the creation story in genesis as inspiration for preserving "god's creation", but I've also heard others cite the same text as an excuse to dominate and exploit natural resources.
 
Reactions: OldWiseGuy
Upvote 0