How do we KNOW knowledge?

[DerelictJunction]

When you use the term; "Christian worldview" does that include humans being created by the Christian God?

No. It has to do with the belief of such.

Springboarding from that belief, OnceDeceived can make other claims without having to prove the existence of a creator God.

Is it true that the logic and reason that humans are equipped with is more logical in the Christian worldview than the view that anti-theists hold? I don't think so.

 

[bhsmte]

We have gotten to the same point as we have before.

A Christian, who can simply not say they believe what they do on faith, but must convince themselves and others, they are following a sound logic in their beliefs.

 

[Oncedeceived]

But do we have flawless logic?

WE have innate logic that is universal. It is true no matter where we are, if we are here or not, it is the same for everyone.

A is A is true no matter where we are, if we are here or not, is the same for everyone and will always be true in the future. The principles we use to form conclusions are based on this flawless logic. Our conclusions can be different but the principles themselves can never be.

True is true and false is false. We know that this is a true statement no matter whether or not we believe the same thing. If we have opposing views we know that one must be true and the other false. That is the flawless logic we are equipped with.

 

[DerelictJunction]

And this would be the same innate logic the majority of the worlds population uses to not believe in Christianity.

Irrelevant. She never said that the logic would necessarily lead everyone to be Christians or even theists.

It is entirely possible that given the evidence that He provided, and using the logic that he possesses, even God might have to conclude that He doesn't exist.

 

[Oncedeceived]

We have gotten to the same point as we have before.

A Christian, who can simply not say they believe what they do on faith, but must convince themselves and others, they are following a sound logic in their beliefs.

What do you base your "sound" logic upon?

 

[Oncedeceived]

Irrelevant. She never said that the logic would necessarily lead everyone to be Christians or even theists.

It is entirely possible that given the evidence that He provided, and using the logic that he possesses, even God might have to conclude that He doesn't exist.

Interesting. Care to explain?

 

[bhsmte]

WE have innate logic that is universal. It is true no matter where we are, if we are here or not, it is the same for everyone.

A is A is true no matter where we are, if we are here or not, is the same for everyone and will always be true in the future. The principles we use to form conclusions are based on this flawless logic. Our conclusions can be different but the principles themselves can never be.

True is true and false is false. We know that this is a true statement no matter whether or not we believe the same thing. If we have opposing views we know that one must be true and the other false. That is the flawless logic we are equipped with.

And this same innate logic you state we all have, brings about different views in regards to beliefs or lack of beliefs in a God.

Doesn't sound like reliable logic to me.

 

[Oncedeceived]

No. It has to do with the belief of such.

Springboarding from that belief, OnceDeceived can make other claims without having to prove the existence of a creator God.

Is it true that the logic and reason that humans are equipped with is more logical in the Christian worldview than the view that anti-theists hold? I don't think so.

Ok great! You don't believe that the Christian worldview explains logic and reason better than other views. What view do you believe explains it better?

I am not using that icon in a derogatory manner. I am glad that you see the claim and are discussing it in terms of how you feel it is not a better explanation. FYI

 

[Oncedeceived]

And this same innate logic you state we all have, brings about different views in regards to beliefs or lack of beliefs in a God.

Doesn't sound like reliable logic to me.

How do you make that determination?

 

[bhsmte]

What do you base your "sound" logic upon?

One thing high on the list would be:

-objective evidence that has been verified through testing

One thing low on the list would be:

-an ancient book, written my mostly anonymous authors

 

[bhsmte]

How do you make that determination?

I spelled that out already. If you missed it, sorry.

 

[essentialsaltes]

What do you base your "sound" logic upon?

Axioms adopted by choice.

There are many different logics

 

[Oncedeceived]

I spelled that out already. If you missed it, sorry.

By all means present it again if I missed it.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Axioms adopted by choice.

There are many different logics

Indeed there are many different logics that all depend on the foundational principles that I am referring to.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Indeed there are many different logics that all depend on the foundational principles that I am referring to.

Wrong. You previously said "If we have opposing views we know that one must be true and the other false."

That is true in the logic that Aristotle mainly used and codified axioms for, but it is not true if we adopt the axioms of many-valued logic.

The reason we speak of "Aristotelian logic" or "Łukasiewicz logic" or "Gödel logic" is because these are all inventions of the human mind.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Wrong. You previously said "If we have opposing views we know that one must be true and the other false."

That is true in the logic that Aristotle mainly used and codified axioms for, but it is not true if we adopt the axioms of many-valued logic.

The reason we speak of "Aristotelian logic" or "Łukasiewicz logic" or "Gödel logic" is because these are all inventions of the human mind.

Please provide an example of many-valued logic.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Please provide an example of many-valued logic.

If you click on the link for many-valued logic in my post, there are several examples, including the ones I named.

 

[Oncedeceived]

If you click on the link for many-valued logic in my post, there are several examples, including the ones I named.

I don't see anywhere that they are showing examples of there being more than either true or false other than undetermined. Perhaps I am not "getting" it.

 

[Loudmouth]

WE have innate logic that is universal.

Judging by your posts, you lack this logic. You continually use logical fallacies, and shift the burden of proof. You disprove your own argument.

 

[bhsmte]

Judging by your posts, you lack this logic. You continually use logical fallacies, and shift the burden of proof. You disprove your own argument.

That is obvious.

If a person is using sound logic, I believe most would agree, the person making the claim, should support the claim, not request another disprove their claim.