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How do we follow Jesus?
- Thread starter Cribstyl
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k4c
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Faith is not as much as the act of believing as seen in a verb, but rather, it's more of what we believe as seen in a noun, something we possess.
We believe Jesus so we make His faith, what He taught, our faith.
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
The words of Jesus express His faith. When we hear or read His word it produces the same faith within us.
Romans 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
The words of Jesus reveal the righteousness of God which is shared with His followers of which we walk by.
Romans 1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just shall live by faith.''
It's these words of faith that bring salvation when we obey them.
Hebrews 5:9 After Jesus was made perfect, he became the Source of eternal salvation for everyone who will obey him.
John 10:27-28 "My sheep hear My voice (words), and I know them, and they follow (obey) Me. "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
Jesus came to magnify and bring honor to the Law, not do away with it.
Isaiah 42:1 "Behold! My Servant whom I uphold, My Elect One in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.
Isaiah 42:21 The Lord is well pleased for His righteousness' sake; He will magnify the law and make it honorable.
Matthew 19:17 So Jesus said to him...."if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.''
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Reasonable response.
Is that your final answer?
What do you understand from all these texts that seem to hightlight individual faith? (click NKJV(54)
K4c, you're caught in action continuing your "his faith" flow, by dragging Paul's teaching about how faith come to believer by simply hearing the word of God. What should we make of the parable of the seed that is sewn on different ground?
K4c now you're using scripture out of context to support your commentary. In Rom 1:16,17Paul is saying...In the Gospel I'm preaching to you, the righteousness of God is revealed to each persons level of faith. (faith to faith)
Now you're want to mix faith with the law by your continuing to take text out of context.
Gal 3:2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:5He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, [doeth he it] by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
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k4c
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The seed is the word of God, which is the faith of Jesus Christ.
Luke 8:11 "Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
These Galatian verses are referring to the law of circumcision, not the Ten Commandments.
John 14:15-17 "If you love Me, keep My commandments. "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever, "even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.
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VictorC
Jesus - that's my final answer
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Galatians 3 addresses the book of the law, which includes the entire 613 mitzvot the children of Israel were bound to - including the ten commandments. Galatians 4 addresses the covenant from Sinai, which was the ten commandments itself. Naturally, Galatians also addresses circumcision, as the law doesn't permit any man who isn't circumcised to observe the High Sabbath (Exodus 12:48). The law is a comprehensive legal package that Galatians deals with in its entirety.
Please note that His commandments, recorded by this same author, didn't include circumcision or the sabbath.
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Yes, it's true that ths scripture conveys the seed is the word of God....."NOT" the faith of Jesus.
Maybe you should tell us why Jesus(God) needs to have faith in things He knew about and had power over before comming to earth as a man?
The context proves that the text is not speaking about the faith of Jesus but rather the faith of people with no root, or those by the wayside, or those whom the devil is able to snatch the word from..... K4c, you're making stuff up.
Luk 8:11¶Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
Luk 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
Luk 8:13 They on the rock [are they], which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
Luk 8:14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of [this] life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
Luk 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep [it], and bring forth fruit with patience.
We should be striving for an honest heart and good ground...So stop handling the word of God as if your comments are the truth.
Obviously you have an agenda to confuse the basic questions of thread; What is faith and How we're to follow Jesus?
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- Gal 2:16 -knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
NLT - Gal 2:16 -And yet we Jewish Christians know that we become right with God, not by doing what the law commands, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be accepted by God because of our faith in Christ--and not because we have obeyed the law. For no one will ever be saved by obeying the law."* Footnote:
* Some translators hold that the quotation extends through verse 14; others through verse 16; and still others through verse 21.
NIV - Gal 2:16 -know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.
ESV - Gal 2:16 -yet we know that a person is not justified* by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ,* so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. Footnotes:
* Or counted righteous (three times in verse 16); also verse 17
* Or through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ
RVR - Gal 2:16 -sabiendo que el hombre no es justificado por las obras de la ley, sino por la fe de Jesucristo, nosotros también hemos creído en Jesucristo, para ser justificados por la fe de Cristo y no por las obras de la ley, por cuanto por las obras de la ley nadie será justificado.
NASB - Gal 2:16 -nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.
RSV - Gal 2:16 -yet who know that a man is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ, and not by works of the law, because by works of the law shall no one be justified.
ASV - Gal 2:16 -yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
YNG - Gal 2:16 -having known also that a man is not declared righteous by works of law, if not through the faith of Jesus Christ, also we in Christ Jesus did believe, that we might be declared righteous by the faith of Christ, and not by works of law, wherefore declared righteous by works of law shall be no flesh.'
DBY - Gal 2:16 -but knowing that a man is not justified on the principle of works of law [nor] but by the faith of Jesus Christ, *we* also have believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified on the principle of [the] faith of Christ; and not of works of law; because on the principle of works of law no flesh shall be justified.
WEB - Gal 2:16 -Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we may be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
HNV - Gal 2:16 -yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through the faith of Yeshua the Messiah, even we believed in Messiah Yeshua, that we might be justified by faith in Messiah, and not by the works of the law, because no flesh will be justified by the works of the law.
VUL - Gal 2:16 -scientes autem quod non iustificatur homo ex operibus legis nisi per fidem Iesu Christi et nos in Christo Iesu credidimus ut iustificemur ex fide Christi et non ex operibus legis propter quod ex operibus legis non iustificabitur omnis caro
TR - Gal 2:16 -εἰδότες ὅτι οὐ δικαιοῦται ἄνθρωπος ἐξ ἔργων νόμου ἐὰν μὴ διὰ πίστεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ καὶ ἡμεῖς εἰς Χριστὸν Ἰησοῦν ἐπιστεύσαμεν ἵνα δικαιωθῶμεν ἐκ πίστεως Χριστοῦ καὶ οὐκ ἐξ ἔργων νόμου διότι οὐ δικαιωθήσεται ἐξ ἔργων νόμου πᾶσα σάρξ
mGNT - Gal 2:16 -εἰδότες δὲ ὅτι οὐ δικαιοῦται ἄνθρωπος ἐξ ἔργων νόμου ἐὰν μὴ διὰ πίστεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ καὶ ἡμεῖς εἰς Χριστὸν Ἰησοῦν ἐπιστεύσαμεν ἵνα δικαιωθῶμεν ἐκ πίστεως Χριστοῦ καὶ οὐκ ἐξ ἔργων νόμου ὅτι ἐξ ἔργων νόμου οὐ δικαιωθήσεται πᾶσα σάρξ
* Some translators hold that the quotation extends through verse 14; others through verse 16; and still others through verse 21.
* Or counted righteous (three times in verse 16); also verse 17
* Or through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ
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VictorC
Jesus - that's my final answer
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After thinking about this for a little while, I find the best example found in Abraham's account recorded in Romans 4:
20 He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God,
21 and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform.
22 And therefore it was accounted to him for righteousness.
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That a good example of true faith ..........
Here is a good read that captures what we should have faith about.
Eph 1:3 (the whole chapter)
Some of the key texts
Eph 1:7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Eph 1:13In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened;
that ye may know what is the hope of his calling,
and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
Eph 1:19 And what [is] the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places],
Good stuff.
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k4c
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God makes a distinction between circumcision and the Ten Commandments.
1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.
Jesus never did away with the Ten Commandments, but rather, He always magnified them by brining relationship to them, rather than, ritualism. Remember, the New Covenant is rooted in the words of Jesus.
Here we have religious man exchanging the Ten Commandment with man's commandments.
Matthew 15:1-9 Then the scribes and Pharisees who were from Jerusalem came to Jesus, saying, "Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.'' But He answered and said to them, "Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? "For God commanded, saying, `Honor your father and your mother'; and, `He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.' "But you say, `Whoever says to his father or mother, "Whatever profit you might have received from me has been dedicated to the temple'' 'is released from honoring his father or mother.' "Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. "Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying: `These people draw near to Me with their mouth, and honor Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.' ''
Here we have Paul quoting the fifth commandment word for word. Now keep in mind, this was years after Jesus.
Ephesians 6:1-3 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. "Honor your father and mother,'' which is the first commandment with promise: "that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth.''
I can go on and on but I'm sure it will fall on deaf ears.
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Gods first words to Abram was one of the promises. God knew Abram's heart before Abram even said a word. Scriptures reveals that Abrams father did not worship God.
First promise
Gen 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
Gen 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
Gen 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
Gen 12:4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram [was] seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.
Which God did Abraham's father and the fathers before the flood worship?
Jos 24:2And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, [even] Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods.
If faith is based on the word of God, why do some people add to God's word, by injecting sabbathkeeping that Abraham was not taught and His father knew not?
By learning what God promised to Abraham we also read all that God commanded Him.
We read that God gave circumcision as a law for all of Abraham's decendants and even strangers had to comply. Genesis said nothing about the law or the sabbath. People have motives for adding to the word of God.
My point is.....Faith is based on the words of God, and not what others people inject without sound biblical grounds.
Let us stand on the word of God.
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VictorC
Jesus - that's my final answer
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Galatians 4 addresses the covenant from Sinai, and you will not find circumcision originating at Sinai at all. The distinction you make does not offer a defense where your point has been refuted.
- Why are you quoting from 1 Corinthians, when the topic is Galatians?
- Why do you testify that you're bound to the first covenant's law, when you quote a verse that distinguishes the commandments of God apart from the law?
Jesus took away the ten commandments by His own Hand, as Hebrews 10:9 testifies. Shall I bring out the chair allegory again, that helps to clarify the meaning of Hebrews 8?
What is the purpose of showing me an affirmation of the law during the tenure of the first covenant? The new covenant did not yet exist when Jesus issued these words. Jesus also stated in Matthew 5:20 "unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven". The scribes and Pharisees were the ones most capable of compliance with the law, far better than you are able to, and their form of righteousness by the law is deemed a failure by God. Yet their zealousness for the law is legendary. Paul wrote Romand 10:1-4 to describe them:
1 ¶ Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved.
2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
"Righteousness" by the law isn't righteousness at all.
Encouraging someone to obey their parents by appealing to the law isn't done if the children were already compliant with that law. They're as disobedient as everyone else.
My ears aren't as deaf as you imagine.
I have long been humbled by recognition of my lawlessness, and all the more appreciative of God's mercy extended to me in spite of my condition.
Paul describes the condition of the circumcised/sabbatarian as veiled, or blind: "even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart" (2 Corinthians 3:15).
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You are reading in the word "ten" before the word "commandments" whenever that word appears in the NT, but neither Jesus nor the apostles applied the ten commandments as a unit of eternally binding moral principles, separate from the rest of the law. Notice that Matthew 15:3-4 says this:
3 And He answered and said to them, "Why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?
4 "For God said, 'HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER,' and, 'HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH.' (NASB)
Jesus was quoting not only one of the ten commandments there but also a commandment from the rest of the law, specifically Exodus 21:17. That was also a commandment of God, not a tradition of men. If you put yourself under the jurisdiction of the law, k4C, you need to obey all of it, not just the ten commandments.4 "For God said, 'HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER,' and, 'HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH.' (NASB)
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You will go on.... from one false premise to another, so we're posting text to correct you, while you run off to spin more questionable commentary.
Try being responsive to the OP or to replies, rather than jacking the thread as you have and claiming that noone is listening.
In 1Cor 7:19 God draws a conclusion that circumcision (those that have the law) or uncircumcision does not matter anymore, but keeping what He commands is what really matters.
(Paul is not talking about only keeping the ten commandment, you are.)What helps us to understand that fact are other scriptures not comments. Circumcision" is both a sign and vow to keep all the law.
It should be clear that the only way both circumcision and uncirmcusion mean nothing, is if the law is out of the equation and both groups can serve God by faith.
Texts that defines circumcision......
Rom 2:25For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
Gal 5:3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Texts that establishes both circumcision and uncircision null and both groups could be justified by faith.
Rom 3:30Seeing [it is] one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
The same lesson about circumcision and uncircumcision was taught by Paul in his letters to the Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians and Colossian.Rom(6)1Cr(1)Gal(3)Eph(1)Col(1) Should we believe you instead?
Or should we believe this;
Eph 2:11Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us];
Eph 2:15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;
Eph 2:16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18For through him we both have access
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CRIB,
Faith is:
Rom 4:5
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. KJV
Rom 4:6
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
KJV
Rom 4:19
19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead,
KJV
Rom 4:20-21
was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. KJV
Rom 4:24-25
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification. KJV
We usually think of faith as believing that Jesus died for our sins. In vs. 24 belief is toward him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead. In Chapter 10, belief is directed toward the resurrection and salvation is through our confession of Jesus as Lord.
Rom 10:9-10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. KJV
Joe
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CRIB,
Let us follow Jesus.
Rom 1:17
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. KJV
Gal 3:11
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. KJV
Heb 10:38-39
38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. KJV
Those who are justified by the blood, much more they are saved by his life.
God made us for his pleasure, to count us for his sacrifice. If we draw back from a life of suffering and shame for his name, then others are not sanctified through our witness and God's pleasure is not fulfilled in us as members of the body of his holy child Jesus.
Gal 2:20-21
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. KJV
Faith toward the law frustrates the grace of God in our hearts and minds. This makes Christ death in vain in our thoughts. Faith toward him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead gives our tongues a living confession, whereby we are not ashamed of our Lord, and Christ's resurrection is not in vain in our thoughts. Confession and salvation are tied together. We confess unto salvation.
When our faith is vain, then we are still in our sins and we are ashamed to confess that Jesus is Lord. Remember Peter.
1 Cor 15:17
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. KJV
Rom 5:1 Justified by faith, we have peace with God in our Lord Jesus Christ.
Rom 5:2-5
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. KJV
In a summation:
Phil 1:29
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;KJV
We follow in the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable to his death, in service to the members of his body, the church, the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Joe
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Cribstyl, here's my tuppence, for whatever it's worth.
Following Jesus, for me, is a matter of both belief and faith. Belief comes first and has to do with acknowledging something as a fact. Faith is our relationship to that fact. For example, electricity is a fact, and we believe in it for several good reasons. But if we do nothing about it, we gain no benefit. It is faith that makes us act on our knowledge and actually flip a switch, trusting that there will be light.
Likewise, belief in Jesus is based on several foundational facts that establish that He is real. But just believing that there is a God is not sufficient. The devils also believe and tremble. Faith has to take hold of the fact of God's reality, trusting that not only does He exist, but that He is well able to relate to us, if we will let Him. Faith talks to God. Not about Him, but to Him.
So to answer "How do we follow Jesus", for me, it is believing (with good reason) that He is as real as the physical world around us and that there is a real world out there in the universe where Jesus/God lives -- not some ethereal cloud floating around somewhere in outer space, but a physical, tangible world surrounded by physical, tangible galaxies, many, if not all, of which are teeming with life and inhabitants, and which have all been created by God.
Once belief is established, then faith must follow if there is to be any benefit from this belief. Faith is trusting in the fact of God's reality to the point where you actually talk to Him, trusting that He is well able to hear you and is powerful enough to have found a way to pervade you with His Spirit so that you and He can have a closer and closer walk together from day to day. Trust Him (have faith) that He has heard you and is moving into action on your behalf. Do not rely on feelings. Thoughts and ideas will follow. The relationship is now between you and God. And let no one else come between.
I can't explain how it works. I just know it works when tried. Just as I can't explain exactly how electricity works, but I know it works when I flip a switch.
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