How do systems of self-development and christian spiritual formation differ?

[dms1972]

I've been looking into a writer. He was a Russian Greek / Armenian mystic called Gurdjieff. His ideas were then developed and published by one of his followers called P.D. Ouspensky. I'm just sort of trying to examine it to see what its about without getting into it.

Can anyone help me with these writers, are they occultists? What was their relationship if any with Christianity?

Gurdjieff differentiates his system from other Eastern ways of self-development that he studied during his travels in the East. He said there are three ways of development traditionally understood in Eastern Religion - the way of the Fakir (physical), the Monk (emotions) and the Yogi (mind). But each demand complete seclusion from the world. His system (called by various names eg. the Work, the Fourth Way etc.) he claimed can be applied within in the midst of ordinary life.

I haven't looked into it beyond reading a bit about it on Wikipedia.

But as to my original question, there are many writers more clearly within the Christian Faith, who write and speak on spiritual formation and there is the christian mystical tradition too. And then there are the self-help books and the various new age books.

With Gurdjieff he says we are only half awake, so he was obviously trying to awaken people more fully by his system of thought. But I don't think this necessarily corresponds to what christians would mean by a spiritual awakening.

Now years ago, I was exploring some of these spiritual paths, including some christian writers and i had an absolutely awful experience that I am not sure how to describe- whether it was what some call a "kundalini awakening" I don't know, but it was some sort of spiritual crisis or emergency. I don't want that to happen again.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I've been looking into a writer. He was a Russian mystic called Gurdjieff and lived in the early part of the 20th century. His ideas were then developed and published by one of his followers called P.D. Ouspensky. I'm just sort of trying to examine it to see what its about without getting into it.

Can anyone help me with these writers, are they occultists? What was their relationship if any with Christianity?

Gurdjieff differentiates his system from other Eastern ways of self-development that he studied during his travels in the East. He said there are three ways of development traditionally understood in Eastern Religion - the way of the Fakir (physical), the Monk (emotions) and the Yogi (mind). But each demand complete seclusion from the world. His system (called by various names eg. the Work, the Fourth Way etc.) he claimed can be applied within in the midst of ordinary life.

I haven't looked into it beyond reading a bit about it on Wikipedia.

But as to my original question, there are many writers more clearly within the Christian Faith, who write and speak on spiritual formation and there is the christian mystical tradition too. And then there are the self-help books and the various new age books.

With Gurdjieff he says we are only half awake, so he was obviously trying to awaken people more fully by his system of thought. But I don't think this necessarily corresponds to what christians would mean by a spiritual awakening. These things seem fairly evident to me having over the years done a bit of study of theology, but in the past I would not have realised there is a difference in what some of these writers mean and what christians mean when they are talking about spiritual rebirth and growth.

Now years ago, I was exploring some of these spiritual paths, including some christian writers and i had an absolutely awful experience that I am not sure how to describe- whether it was what some call a "kundalini awakening" I don't know, but it was some sort of spiritual crisis or emergency. I don't want that to happen again.

Pretty much any system that attempts to " add" to the Gospel of Jesus Christ of Nazareth is headed in the wrong direction.
Blessings

 

[Joseph G]

I've been looking into a writer. He was a Russian mystic called Gurdjieff and lived in the early part of the 20th century. His ideas were then developed and published by one of his followers called P.D. Ouspensky. I'm just sort of trying to examine it to see what its about without getting into it.

Can anyone help me with these writers, are they occultists? What was their relationship if any with Christianity?

Gurdjieff differentiates his system from other Eastern ways of self-development that he studied during his travels in the East. He said there are three ways of development traditionally understood in Eastern Religion - the way of the Fakir (physical), the Monk (emotions) and the Yogi (mind). But each demand complete seclusion from the world. His system (called by various names eg. the Work, the Fourth Way etc.) he claimed can be applied within in the midst of ordinary life.

I haven't looked into it beyond reading a bit about it on Wikipedia.

But as to my original question, there are many writers more clearly within the Christian Faith, who write and speak on spiritual formation and there is the christian mystical tradition too. And then there are the self-help books and the various new age books.

With Gurdjieff he says we are only half awake, so he was obviously trying to awaken people more fully by his system of thought. But I don't think this necessarily corresponds to what christians would mean by a spiritual awakening. These things seem fairly evident to me having over the years done a bit of study of theology, but in the past I would not have realised there is a difference in what some of these writers mean and what christians mean when they are talking about spiritual rebirth and growth.

Now years ago, I was exploring some of these spiritual paths, including some christian writers and i had an absolutely awful experience that I am not sure how to describe- whether it was what some call a "kundalini awakening" I don't know, but it was some sort of spiritual crisis or emergency. I don't want that to happen again.

Spiritual formation:

Christian: Submission to Christ
Anything else: dung

God bless!
biblegateway.com

 

[DragonFox91]

I was learning recently a lot of Christian self-development teachers pull from those Eastern teachings. The Eastern Teachings are focused on unlocking your inner self, your true self, or your higher self. Often a way to do this is by prayer or meditation for example. So what a Christian self-development teacher will do is slap a cross on their book to make it look Christian, give a couple Bible verses about prayer, & then teach the Eastern teachings. Many of these Christian self-development teachers were discipled by Eastern Teachers. A lot of them will have very poor genuine Christian teaching. I think one that stands out is that they become very works-based. You develop yourself by being a better person by acts of charity. While charity is good, that neglects anything you do God has called you to do is good b/c you are glorifying him in all you do in line w/ his will, & you can rest in Christ's complete work

There's many ways Eastern teachings have come or are coming into the USA..............

I don't know as much about the kundalini thing, but that's one of the end-goals, a kind of physical excitement. You don't hear it enough from Christians but stay away from yoga! IT's not just stretching tho that's what it's marketed as. A lot of these Christian self-development teachers will encourage yoga

 

[tturt]

It depends on who is being looked to as the source. One is relying on "self" while the other is relying on God Almighty to help us become who He wants us to be.

God will help us renew our minds. Our part is to take every thought captive based on I Cor 10:5 -"casting down imaginations and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ,"

That means when we have thoughts that are not in line with Scripture, we can repent and immediately focus on God and His Word (the truth) such as the following. We declare who we are because of Him.
-"I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well." (Psa 139:14)
-“The spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.” (Job 33:4)
-God says "I will put ligaments on you, place muscles on you, and cover you with skin. I will put breath in you, and you will live. Then you will know that I am Yahweh." (Eze 37:6)
-"a]because if thou shalt [b]confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved:" (Rom 10:9)
-"But now, you who were once far off have been brought near through the shedding of the Messiah’s blood." (Eph 2:13)
-'But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name" (John 1:12).

"What then shall we say to [all] this? If God is for us, who [can be] against us? [Who can be our foe, if God is on our side?]" (Rom 8:31).

"Lord, You are my God; I will exalt You, I will praise and give thanks to Your name; For You have done miraculous things, Plans formed long, long ago, [fulfilled] with perfect faithfulness." (Isa 25:1).

 

[FireDragon76]

Pretty much any system that attempts to " add" to the Gospel of Jesus Christ of Nazareth is headed in the wrong direction.
Blessings

Gurdjeff died an Orthodox Christian in good standing, and he had some followers in the Russian Orthodox diaspora in Paris. The notion of "awakening" is also not completely absent in Eastern Christianity (or the Bible), even though it is more esoteric in nature than the outward kerygma of the Church there: It is associated with the spirituality of the hesychast, who seeks a kind of enlightenment experience through asceticism and subduing the passions.

"Sleeper, awake, rise from the dead, and Christ will enlighten you". (Ephesians 5:13-14)

The retired Episcopalian priest, spiritual director and teacher, Cynthia Bourgeault, is a practitioner of Gurdjeff's Fourth Way.

 

[FireDragon76]

I was learning recently a lot of Christian self-development teachers pull from those Eastern teachings. The Eastern Teachings are focused on unlocking your inner self, your true self, or your higher self. Often a way to do this is by prayer or meditation for example. So what a Christian self-development teacher will do is slap a cross on their book to make it look Christian, give a couple Bible verses about prayer, & then teach the Eastern teachings. Many of these Christian self-development teachers were discipled by Eastern Teachers. A lot of them will have very poor genuine Christian teaching. I think one that stands out is that they become very works-based. You develop yourself by being a better person by acts of charity. While charity is good, that neglects anything you do God has called you to do is good b/c you are glorifying him in all you do in line w/ his will, & you can rest in Christ's complete work

Eastern Christian spirituality has this kind of thing. It's called nepsis or watchfulness.

The goal of the hesychast is mystical union with God through inner stillness. It's not completely unlike the Quakers in some ways. In fact, Fr. Alexander Schmemann, a well-known Russian-American theologian and churchman of the 1960's, once chided the National Council of Churches for not seating him next to the Quakers, instead they placed him near the Episcopalians.

There's many ways Eastern teachings have come or are coming into the USA..............

I don't know as much about the kundalini thing, but that's one of the end-goals, a kind of physical excitement. You don't hear it enough from Christians but stay away from yoga! IT's not just stretching tho that's what it's marketed as. A lot of these Christian self-development teachers will encourage yoga

Gurdjeff was actually opposed to anything to do with kundalini.

Gurdjeff was a bit of a tricker and often used practical jokes as a way to wake people up. He also taught a kind of mindfulness, and also believed in using dance and music.

 

[DragonFox91]

Eastern Christian spirituality has this kind of thing. It's called nepsis or watchfulness.

The goal of the hesychast is mystical union with God through inner stillness. It's not completely unlike the Quakers in some ways. In fact, Fr. Alexander Schmemann, a well-known Russian-American theologian and churchman of the 1960's, once chided the National Council of Churches for not seating him next to the Quakers, instead they placed him near the Episcopalians.



Gurdjeff was actually opposed to anything to do with kundalini.

Gurdjeff was a bit of a tricker and often used practical jokes as a way to wake people up. He also taught a kind of mindfulness, and also believed in using dance and music.

Yep, the Quakers were that line repackaged

 

[tturt]

It's really evident all around us. Here"s an example: According to Wikipedia, in Australia, the Brownie Girl Scout' s promise was changed in 2012 from noting God to just oneself.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I've been looking into a writer. He was a Russian Greek / Armenian mystic called Gurdjieff. His ideas were then developed and published by one of his followers called P.D. Ouspensky. I'm just sort of trying to examine it to see what its about without getting into it.

Can anyone help me with these writers, are they occultists? What was their relationship if any with Christianity?

Gurdjieff differentiates his system from other Eastern ways of self-development that he studied during his travels in the East. He said there are three ways of development traditionally understood in Eastern Religion - the way of the Fakir (physical), the Monk (emotions) and the Yogi (mind). But each demand complete seclusion from the world. His system (called by various names eg. the Work, the Fourth Way etc.) he claimed can be applied within in the midst of ordinary life.

I haven't looked into it beyond reading a bit about it on Wikipedia.

But as to my original question, there are many writers more clearly within the Christian Faith, who write and speak on spiritual formation and there is the christian mystical tradition too. And then there are the self-help books and the various new age books.

With Gurdjieff he says we are only half awake, so he was obviously trying to awaken people more fully by his system of thought. But I don't think this necessarily corresponds to what christians would mean by a spiritual awakening.

Now years ago, I was exploring some of these spiritual paths, including some christian writers and i had an absolutely awful experience that I am not sure how to describe- whether it was what some call a "kundalini awakening" I don't know, but it was some sort of spiritual crisis or emergency. I don't want that to happen again.

The structure of world spirituality treats all of creation as one essence.

The structure of Trinitiarian Spirituality treats each creation as having it's own essence.

When applied spiritually, God's version protects each creation. The corroded spirituality of earth leads to excessive abuse and not respecting boundaries since boundaries are just illusions. Boundaries are regarded as mere illusions because everything is of the same one essence in that system.