How do SDA and JW refute criticisms?

[Duvduv]

I am interested in how the Seventh Day Adventists and the Jehovah's Witnesses have refuted or addressed the criticisms about changed theology and false predictions and prophecies of Charles Taze Russell, Ellen White and Joseph Rutherford, especially in relation to the unfolding of world political events.
Is there anything online about this? What I have seen online is pretty wild coming from these three people.

 

[tampasteve]

I am not sure about the others, but SDA have the advantage of saying that EGW was never deemed a prophet, so if her prophesies fall short then they were not accurate. In reality many traditional SDA treat EGW as their founding Prophetess, but would not claim to elevate her to that status. Keep in mind that being a Prophet and making a prophesy are not necessarily tied together. A sign of a Prophet is to make prophesies, but a person that is not a Prophet can also make a prophesy. For example, in mainstream Christianity, Paul was not a Prophet, but he did make prophesies occasionally.

 

[Duvduv]

OK, but they deem her an "inspired" person by the Holy Spirit, so what of her mistakes along the way? Where do they start and where do they end?

 

[Duvduv]

How do Mormons know which of the versions of the Book of Mormon is correct since there are differences between the 1830 version and the 1837 version? No one had the opportunity to compare either printed version to the golden plates. So how does anyone know if there were more "mistakes" or that the contents was simply a pure fabrication?!

 

[gaara4158]

In my experience as a former SDA, they treat her failed or inaccurate “revelations” as misinterpretations on our end, much like they do with the Bible. Anything concrete she said that has since been proven false is sent up a level or two of abstraction to preserve its inspired status.

 

[Duvduv]

How different are the theologies of the remnant Bible Students group(s) from the Jehovah's Witnesses? Do those groups critique Rutherford as strongly as anti-JW opponents? How do they defend Russell himself?

 

[tampasteve]

How different are the theologies of the remnant Bible Students group(s) from the Jehovah's Witnesses? Do those groups critique Rutherford as strongly as anti-JW opponents? How do they defend Russell himself?

I'm not sure you are going to get too many answers to that question here. Those are pretty small groups as it is and I am not sure that any are involved here.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I am not sure about the others, but SDA have the advantage of saying that EGW was never deemed a prophet, so if her prophesies fall short then they were not accurate. In reality many traditional SDA treat EGW as their founding Prophetess, but would not claim to elevate her to that status. Keep in mind that being a Prophet and making a prophesy are not necessarily tied together. A sign of a Prophet is to make prophesies, but a person that is not a Prophet can also make a prophesy. For example, in mainstream Christianity, Paul was not a Prophet, but he did make prophesies occasionally.

Most interactions I've had with SDA's seem to point to EGW as a bonafide prophet. So it is news to me if this isn't the case.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[tampasteve]

Most interactions I've had with SDA's seem to point to EGW as a bonafide prophet. So it is news to me if this isn't the case.

-CryptoLutheran

Until you mention the inconsistencies and inaccuracies in the prophesies they do, but faced with the reality that she never claimed to be a prophet, and some of her visions are obviously incorrect (eg,solar system vision) now they tend to fall back on the statement that she was not a prophet.

 

[devolved]

In my experience as a former SDA, they treat her failed or inaccurate “revelations” as misinterpretations on our end, much like they do with the Bible. Anything concrete she said that has since been proven false is sent up a level or two of abstraction to preserve its inspired status.

I think there's a wider range of rationalizations involved like conditional prophesy concept. For example in Jonah, the destruction prophesy was conditional upon repentance of the people. So, SDA views the unfulfilled prophesy to be conditional.

Although, I would say that Ellen White is playing ever-more diminishing role in the church which is slowly backing away from the concept that we are living in the last days, and that anytime now the Papacy will join hands with the US and will institute Sunday laws as per Ellen White.

I'm not really sure if there will be many SDAs left in another 20-30 years who will hold on to that ideology. I think it would be rare given the direction in which secularization is taking Christianity in general.

 

[Duvduv]

Why are Jehovah's Witnesses considered to have a more authoritarian misleading religion and face more hostility in the media and some governments than does the authoritarian Catholic Church or the Amish who practice shunning of backsliders?

In terms of classification as a cult perhaps by virtue of seeking to keep the followers within the fold, it doesn't seem that the JW are more in that situation than other groups. And of course the JW have features that resemble the Catholic Church as well (central ideological control).

Other aspects such as secrecy seemed to be more prevalent among the Mormons who have secret rituals and who don't even reveal financial records for tithing to their members. Perhaps a better description of JW is "eccentric." That seems to me to be more appropriate. Perhaps even "very eccentric." It seems to me it would be awfully difficult to describe a sect composed of millions of people worldwide as a cult which corresponds to Branch Davidians or some Far Eastern neo-Hindu sect.