How do people who are "unconditionally loved" end up in hell?

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

People don't really choose heaven or hell. They choose to believe or disbelief in the God of the Bible, and more specificially, His testimony about Jesus Christ (1 John 5:10) who is the only Way to the Father. If God unconditionally and individually loves all men, then how do "unconditionally loved" people end up in hell for all eternity?

(I am not a universalist and I believe what Jesus said about hell.)

 

[Pilgrim]

People don't really choose heaven or hell. They choose to believe or disbelief in the God of the Bible, and more specificially, His testimony about Jesus Christ (1 John 5:10) who is the only Way to the Father. If God unconditionally and individually loves all men, then how do "unconditionally loved" people end up in hell for all eternity?

(I am not a universalist and I believe what Jesus said about hell.)

God's perfect love and perfect justice meet at the Cross. If a person says "no" or otherwise "rejects" God's free gift of salvation through Christ Jesus, then God's perfect justice will be met out, on judgement day, at a time of His choosing.

 

[ToBeLoved]

People don't really choose heaven or hell. They choose to believe or disbelief in the God of the Bible, and more specificially, His testimony about Jesus Christ (1 John 5:10) who is the only Way to the Father. If God unconditionally and individually loves all men, then how do "unconditionally loved" people end up in hell for all eternity?

(I am not a universalist and I believe what Jesus said about hell.)

Sin must be atoned for.

THose who have Christ have that atonement.

We all have the free choice to choose it.

 

[Neal of Zebulun]

How do people who are "unconditionally loved" end up in hell?

At the very least, we have to admit that Yahweh does not love everybody for ever, whether it's conditional or not.

 

[ToBeLoved]

How do people who are "unconditionally loved" end up in hell?

At the very least, we have to admit that Yahweh does not love everybody for ever, whether it's conditional or not.

How do you even know what the love of God is or is about?

You are smarter than God?

If you had faith and God told you that He is righteous and fair and you belileved God, you wouldn't be wondering.

Where is your faith?

Are you the Creator or the created?

Why don't you just say you don't have faith that God is righteous and it will all be fair and just and perfect. That is your argument, God is a liar and unjust and just sucks.

But that is not Biblical.

 

[drjean]

The thought reasoning is flawed in that question.

A mother or father can really, truly love their child but the child goes out and refuses to even acknowledge the parent...and gets into bigger trouble. How much more important is it to acknowledge God and His love shown to us through the offer of salvation? God has done everything to show His unconditional love, but if a person refuses to accept it, that isn't God's fault.

 

[Neal of Zebulun]

How do you even know what the love of God is or is about?

You are smarter than God?

If you had faith and God told you that He is righteous and fair and you belileved God, you wouldn't be wondering.

Where is your faith?

Are you the Creator or the created?

Why don't you just say you don't have faith that God is righteous and it will all be fair and just and perfect. That is your argument, God is a liar and unjust and just sucks.

But that is not Biblical.

I don't want to fight you, you were kind to me in the other thread.

Perhaps you're right maybe I was presumptuous. I was thinking about Revelation 20:10 and what I would feel if I sent someone to be tormented for eternity. I don't think I could truly love them forever, whether conditionally or not.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I don't want to fight you, you were kind to me in the other thread.

Perhaps you're right maybe I was presumptuous. I was thinking about Revelation 20:10 and what I would feel if I sent someone to be tormented for eternity. I don't think I could truly love them forever, whether conditionally or not.

My point, although very direct is that we either believe who God says He is or we do not.

Know this about the devil though.

First, we believe in God, but the devil KNOWS God and that God exists. And the devil was with God, in heaven, so he knows all of God's splendor, majesty and power, yet still went against God and has been since the Garden of Eden.

Maybe mankind would never have fallen if not for the devil. So God has billions of His Children estranged from Him because of that. The Bible tells us that the devil comes to mame, kill and destroy.

I don't doubt that the devil knew what would happen if he did not become God or bigger than God and overthrow God. So maybe it was a chance he took and he lost. That doesn't sound unjust.

I don't wish to fight with you either.

 

[Neal of Zebulun]

My point, although very direct is that we either believe who God says He is or we do not.

Know this about the devil though.

First, we believe in God, but the devil KNOWS God and that God exists. And the devil was with God, in heaven, so he knows all of God's splendor, majesty and power, yet still went against God and has been since the Garden of Eden.

Maybe mankind would never have fallen if not for the devil. So God has billions of His Children estranged from Him because of that. The Bible tells us that the devil comes to mame, kill and destroy.

I don't doubt that the devil knew what would happen if he did not become God or bigger than God and overthrow God. So maybe it was a chance he took and he lost. That doesn't sound unjust.

I don't wish to fight with you either.

But it's not just Satan that goes there, but false prophets too, who are people. And then I think about what Christ says to those on His left hand, "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" in Matthew 25:41

Maybe if I stopped loving someone I would let an angel take them to hell, but how could I keep loving someone while they are tormented forever?

 

[ToBeLoved]

But it's not just Satan that goes there, but false prophets too, who are people. And then I think about what Christ says to those on His left hand, "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" in Matthew 25:41

Maybe if I stopped loving someone I would let an angel take them to hell, but how could I keep loving someone while they are tormented forever?

How I personally deal with it is I have complete faith in God's justness and righteousness and I let God be God.

I will say that I don't hang on hell doctrine being fire. It could be or it could be just removeal from God and His love.

I don't really think there is a lot of info on what exactly the afterlife will be or not be. I would get to know who God is. Even in our lives, God does not shield us from everything that will hurt us, but God does not say our lives will be Disneyland when we follow Him. He does tell us that we are co-Heirs with Jesus Christ to the Father, so part of what Jesus has in the Father will be ours. Like God, in the Holy Spirit resides in us now.

Remember Christ's commandments are about love, not fear. So we are called to love God and to love each other. Concentrate on that, on being who God wants you to be and His Child.

That other path is not your path. Share the Good News of Christ and save others from that bad path. Your path is you are God's Child. Adopted by God into His Family because He loves you.

 

[Ron Gurley]

God knows each of Man's spirits who truly seek. He ignores no Man.
God spiritually draws / calls ALL MEN. Man has spiritual "free will" to accept / reject His provisions.

John 6:44
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him;
and I will raise him up on the last day.

Ephesians 2:5
even when we were dead in our transgressions,
MADE us (spiritually) ALIVE together with Christ
(by grace you have been saved),

2 Timothy 1: 8-14 (NASB)
... for the gospel according to the power of God,
who has saved us and CALLED us with a holy calling,
not according to our works,
but according to His own purpose and grace
which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity, (hidden)
BUT now has been REVEALED by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death
and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,
...Guard, through the Holy Spirit who DWELLS in us,
the treasure which has been entrusted to you.

Matthew 7:8
For everyone who asks receives,
and he who seeks finds,
and to him who knocks it will be opened.

God wants all to be saved.

If anyone truly and spiritually seeks God.
Jesus the God-Man will be revealed to him.

CHOOSE!.

Man SPIRITUALLY CHOOSES whether he want to be a "child of God" (saved believer)...or...NOT.

God spiritually calls/draws/knocks to ALL.
EACH Man's spirit must accept or reject.

Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse.
So CHOOSE LIFE in order that you may live, you and your descendants,

1 Chronicles 28:9...KING David to wise son Solomon
“As for you, my son Solomon,
know the God of your father, and serve Him with a whole heart and a willing mind;
for the Lord searches all hearts, and understands every intent of the thoughts.
If you seek Him, He will let you find Him; BUT
if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever.

John 3:36...John the Baptizer on Jesus: CHOOSE
1. He who believes in the Son has eternal life; (BELIEVER)
but
2.he who does not obey (TO BELIEVE IN!) the Son will not see life,
but the wrath of God abides on him.” (UN-BELIEVER)

John 1
11 He came to that which was His own, but His own did NOT receive Him.
12 Yet to all who DID receive him,
to those who BELIEVED in his name, he gave the right to become "children of God"
— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but "born of God"

Revelation 3:20...CHOOSE!
Behold, I stand at the door and knock;
if anyone hears My voice and opens the door,
I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

 

[Grady]

I had a theology professor tell me once (speaking about the conundrum) "In God's right hand is His love, in His left is His judgement/wrath. He has both. However, He is clearly right-handed." I thought this was pretty profound. It's kind of like the seeming oxymoron of "being chosen from the foundation of the world" and "having the ability to choose right from wrong, life or death." (in other words, free-will). It's a mystery. Two sides of the same coin. Some mysteries of God are impossible for a mortal to understand. God's providence. We'll just have to be patient, knowing one day we will "see and know fully, even as we are fully known." Hope this helps someone! Blessings!

 

[Gary Downey]

People don't really choose heaven or hell. They choose to believe or disbelief in the God of the Bible, and more specificially, His testimony about Jesus Christ (1 John 5:10) who is the only Way to the Father. If God unconditionally and individually loves all men, then how do "unconditionally loved" people end up in hell for all eternity?

(I am not a universalist and I believe what Jesus said about hell.)

God's love is absolutely unconditional but salvation is conditional. There are conditions to salvation. One MUST repent and believe in Christ. So you see, there are no conditions to receive God's love but there are conditions to be saved.

 

[Sine Nomine]

People don't really choose heaven or hell. They choose to believe or disbelief in the God of the Bible, and more specificially, His testimony about Jesus Christ (1 John 5:10) who is the only Way to the Father. If God unconditionally and individually loves all men, then how do "unconditionally loved" people end up in hell for all eternity?

(I am not a universalist and I believe what Jesus said about hell.)

There's a lot that's been said about conditions placed on people to determine whether they are saved or not. However, the one condition that must be met is that sin must result in death. Jesus died that death--he who had no sin became sin for us. The condition has been met, his love for us is therefore not unconditional, it's just that no conditions are placed on us to be loved by him. He met the condition of our salvation. Jesus is not willing that even one be lost. I don't know how to keep this from suggesting universalism, but I know that he has/is/will redeem it all--however that works.

I know what preachers have said that Jesus said about hell, but when I look into what Jesus himself said, I find he talked about Gehenna (the burning trash heap outside the city) and Sheol (the grave) and Hades (a Greek theological concept). He also talked of burning the chaff and the wicked/wickedness. I want to think in human terms and say with CS Lewis and others that some just refuse to be redeemed, but I also suspect that God will do the unexpected and inexplicable and it won't be quite what we thought it should be.

 

[2consider]

People don't really choose heaven or hell. They choose to believe or disbelief in the God of the Bible, and more specificially, His testimony about Jesus Christ (1 John 5:10) who is the only Way to the Father. If God unconditionally and individually loves all men, then how do "unconditionally loved" people end up in hell for all eternity?

(I am not a universalist and I believe what Jesus said about hell.)

People do choose heaven or hell. God doesn't send anyone to hell, if a person ends up there it's because of the choice they made not to believe and accept. It has to be this way, here's why.

God is perfect, his plane of existence, his realm, the place from which he created our universe, his home if you like, the place we call heaven is perfect. If God created the universe, he had to exists before the universe, so god must reside, or exist in some somewhere else, perhaps some alternate universe, something like that. If the place where god lives is perfect, we can't be allowed in because, in this case, one bad apple would spoil the whole bunch.

Think about this way. No one is perfect, but imagine if there were a group of perfect people, if one imperfect person is allowed into that group it's no longer a perfect group. If we are allowed into god's perfect space, it's no longer perfect.

Throughout the bible we read about God's perfection, and were told we have to be perfect, and we are told that in Jesus we are made perfect. There are many references to being "in Jesus." This is more literal than many people realize. When we are in Jesus, we are in something like a protective bubble that allows us to be in god's perfect place without corrupting the perfection.

You could think of it like a law of nature. There are laws that govern our existence, gravity for example. gravity is a natural force, a law of nature, if you jump out of an airplane you'll fall to the ground. Gravity isn't good or bad, it isn't judging us, it's just how it is. We have laws that govern our universe, and since god had to exist in some universe separate and apart from this universe to be able to create it, the laws that govern God's universe are likely very much different from ours. God doesn't punish us or reject us, it's just a natural law that we imperfect being can't get in. Now, if you jump out of an airplane with a parachute on, you'll survive, you will have defied gravity. When we are in jesus he is like our parachute, by being in Jesus we can defy the laws of nature that prevent us from getting into the place God reside, the place we call heaven.

So if you jump out of an airplane without a parachute and die, you can't blame gravity, you made the choice to jump without the parachute. if you find yourself in hell, it's because you made the choice not to be in Jesus, you jumped without a parachute. God is no more responsible if you end up in hell than gravity is responsible if you die from jumping from a plane.

 

[JIMINZ]

People don't really choose heaven or hell. They choose to believe or disbelief in the God of the Bible, and more specificially, His testimony about Jesus Christ (1 John 5:10) who is the only Way to the Father. If God unconditionally and individually loves all men, then how do "unconditionally loved" people end up in hell for all eternity?

(I am not a universalist and I believe what Jesus said about hell.)

.
They don't.

People don't choose to Believe or Disbelieve, we are born Disbelievers, and we remain Disbelievers until God Draws us unto Jesus and by His Grace we are Saved.....Become Believers, still no choice.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

They have been unconditionally Saved by Grace!......Period.

 

[wilts43]

How do people who are "unconditionally loved" end up in hell?

How anybody ends it in hell is described in..............
Matthew 25:31-46

The Final Judgment
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers,a]">[a] you did it to me.’41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”


There isn't anything there about belief or faith that I can see
It's all about how we treat the least.


Morally-speaking. it looks like rational, reasonable, common-sense! A justice that most people (believers or not) would see as consistent with a God of love.

But if you need it underlining......
Matt 7:22....
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.’…

Faith, if you have it, has to bear fruit in good works; and Jesus tells us these fruits relate crucially to our treatment of "the least".
Underlined yet again in the parable of the Good Samaritan.....(who also wasn't a "believer" but the only just man in the story)

 

[2consider]

.
They don't.

People don't choose to Believe or Disbelieve, we are born Disbelievers, and we remain Disbelievers until God Draws us unto Jesus and by His Grace we are Saved.....Become Believers, still no choice.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

They have been unconditionally Saved by Grace!......Period.

We're not born disbelievers, to believe or disbelieve in something, you first have to know of it's existence.
When you're born, you have no idea or concept or even knowledge of god.
Once we learn about the existence of God, only then can we decide to believe or not.

We are saved by grace, but it's a gift we have to accpet. If we were saved by grace, "period", and it wasn't something we had to accept, then the entire bible is unneeded. Why write this book, why send Jesus down to suffer and die? If we were saved by garce and it wasn't something we actively had to participate in to receive, god could just grant us all grace, and forget about it. There would be no need for sending jesus to die, or give us his word in the bible. He wouldn't even need to make his presence known to us.

 

[ToBeLoved]

We're not born disbelievers, to believe or disbelieve in something, you first have to know of it's existence.
When you're born, you have no idea or concept or even knowledge of god.
Once we learn about the existence of God, only then can we decide to believe or not.

We are saved by grace, but it's a gift we have to accpet. If we were saved by grace, "period", and it wasn't something we had to accept, then the entire bible is unneeded. Why write this book, why send Jesus down to suffer and die? If we were saved by garce and it wasn't something we actively had to participate in to receive, god could just grant us all grace, and forget about it. There would be no need for sending jesus to die, or give us his word in the bible. He wouldn't even need to make his presence known to us.

Yup. Great points

 

[wilts43]

.
They don't.

People don't choose to Believe or Disbelieve, we are born Disbelievers, and we remain Disbelievers until God Draws us unto Jesus and by His Grace we are Saved.....Become Believers, still no choice.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

They have been unconditionally Saved by Grace!......Period.

(1)This hard Calvinism leaves you with a God who is only a puppet-maker....who puts on a show (for Himself) with his puppets......where they actually suffer....for ever!!
This is no God of love.
This Calvinist Fundamentalism is used by New-Atheists as a representation of Christianity.....because it is so easy to ridicule.

(2)It reduces God, to the God of Islam.....who is so absolutely sovereign that "goodness" is not a quality He possesses...."goodness" becomes merely obedience to whatever Allah dictates......even murder.
There is no virtue; there is only obedience.

(3)This is caused by "either/or thinking.....false dichotomies.....zero-sum-games. Most all heresies derive from this thinking.

In this instance it is either God's grace (sovereignity) OR man's free will !

All deduction after this is futile; the error is in this false dichotomy.
(The option of "both Grace & free will" has been ignored)

Perversely, in trying to contain an all-sovereign God in Calvin's relentless logic, he limited God. For God can do all things. Even hold truth in paradoxes that we can probe with reason but will remain a mystery.

Historical (Catholic & Orthodox) Christianity, fought many battles against these either/or challenges, in favour of the both/and truthes.

God is both Three & One
Jesus is God & Man (Against Ebionites & Docetists)
Divine Will & Human Will (Against Monothelites)
Divine Nature & Human Nature (Against Nestorians)
Faith & Works (Against "Faith alone")
Grace & Free Will (Against "Grace alone")
Scripture & Tradition (Against "Scripture alone")
Faith & Reason
Priesthood of believers & Ministerial priesthood