How do, or can we, "obey"...?

Phantasman said:

What are you trying to "obey"? Christ never uses the word "obey". Slaves obey.

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I think I understand the sense of the word you are thinking of, and His actual wording He said for you isn't using that paraphrase 'obey', but instead uses different words, just above, the words "keep" and "remain" -- potent words. Please please see the quote I just added just above in red.

Neogaia777 said:

Yes... You have my attention... If there clear, and simple, and few, please, what are these then...?

God Bless!

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Time for me to turn in for the night. Love you! Have a good night.

Neogaia777 said:

How do, or can we "obey"...?

What is the best most effective way to obey?, and obey what exactly...?

Do we do so by knowing all the time knowing what "not to" do, or not...?

If not, then how does that work or operate...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

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Obey what or who?
Is what you need to work out. If it's guidance about what to obey, then look at the 10 commandments and start obeying them. That is a starting point.

Dear Neogaia777. How do, or can we obey? God is Love, and God wants loving sons and daughters. In Matthew 22; 35-40: Jesus tells us: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: love thy neighbour as thyself: treat everybody you know and meet, treat them as you would love to be treated. Love is very catching, and before long, we are as loving as God wants us to be. The Bible tells us: give up all selfish and unloving thoughts and wishes, and ask for love and joy, and compassion. Remember: " ask and you shall receive."
God hears our prayers, and God Loves us and will help us. Jesus our Saviour will lead us all the way: JESUS IS THE WAY. Jesus died that we might live. Ask for Love from God, then thank God and start sharing our love, joy and compassion. Always remember: God is Love and God wants loving men and women. I say this with love, Neogaia. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

Neogaia777 said:

I know who, it's the "what" part....

But surely, no one can keep the ten, can they...? Not perfectly anyway, and definitely not the "spirit" of the Old law covenant...

And, "how" do we, or can we obey, that is effective or works...?

Is there a path that leads to perfect obedience, that we're missing...

Your supposed to be able to follow after Godly Love, and that is supposed to fulfill it/them in the end or by the end of it...

God Bless!

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God's ultimate command is 'Be perfect as the Lord your God is Perfect.'

Yes you are right we cannot obey the law, but that is the point of the law. It shows us what sin/disobedience is.
The spirit indwelling in us knows what motivates us and God knows just how great a failure we are but he loves despite that knowledge.

We have to constantly have to return to God for forgiveness. 1John 1v9

Neogaia777 said:

How do, or can we "obey"...?

What is the best most effective way to obey?, and obey what exactly...?

Do we do so by knowing all the time knowing what "not to" do, or not...?

If not, then how does that work or operate...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

Click to expand...

To know what you are to obey, you must see that which you should avoid. He tells us to avoid sin. But, what does the bible describe as sin? The transgression of his instruction, his Torah. By obeying his Torah, you are obeying Him.

As Jesus (Yeshua) says, John 14:31 -
But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

Psalm 119:94 - I am thine, save me; for I have sought thy precepts.

Everyone since Adam and Eve has had his Torah to follow.
- Cain and Abel knowing about how sacrifices work: Genesis 4:4
- Noah knowing what clean and unclean animals were: Genesis 7:2
- Abraham observing the law: Genesis 26:5

Even in the Garden of Eden, what kicked them out of living in eternal peace with the Father? Eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Literally, doing that what the Father told them not to do. They broke the law, and had to pay the price by being removed from the Father's presence, and were forced out of paradise, and consequently died. That is quite literally the punishment for breaking the law. Breaking the law is sin, and the punishment for sin, is death. BUT, the thing people get hung up on today, is the fact that no one aside from Jesus could perfectly uphold the law, so they disregard it while pointing to grace, despite there being verses saying that grace doesn't mean we should just embrace sin. All the while saying obey God, obey God! While ironically seeking disobedience.

But, exactly as you've asked, what do you obey? This forum is filled with many different answers, because without the Torah, you can't know what sin is. You can't know what to avoid. You're literally just doing whatever you see fit in your own eyes. Jesus tells us not to lean on our own understanding, yet everyone in the modern church does just that. He tells us to avoid paganism and idolatry, yet all of our holidays we celebrate as Christians are rooted in paganism. Christmas for example. The 25th is the birthdate of A "god", but it's not the Savior...

I digress though, my point is, without the law, we can't even know what sin is (Romans 7:7)(Psalm 119:92)(Psalm 119:89-91), let alone how to avoid it, even though Jesus tells us to "go and sin no more". Seeking to obey the law, will not condemn you, despite what the church today preaches. It will only condemn you, if you place your faith for salvation in your "ability" to keep the law. Abraham was considered righteous by faith, but yet, as the verse I linked above shows you Genesis 26:5, he still kept the laws. Why? Because. Desiring the law, is desiring the Father. The law, IS the Father. If you love the Father, your faith will manifest itself, or (more accurately) desire to manifest itself as obedience. As James says (James 2:17), faith without works is dead. Which, I'd like to point out makes no sense under the modern church's teachings.

Here are some that point to what I'm saying regarding the garden of eden.

Psalm 3:18, Psalm 11:30, Deuteronomy 4:6, Matthew 5:18 (heaven and earth are still here).

Pray on the things I've mentioned brother. I've got another additional message I'll post shortly after this one, it's something I've just thought of, but this message is too long so, figured I'd separate them.

sin is revealed by the law but the law is Christ inside of you, the hope of glory. people know the difference between good and evil ever since humanity ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. they know it in various degrees, some being more darkened and more seeing more clearly.

I don't wonder what abraham followed seeing that the laws of moses were not yet written but it appears that he was already capable of knowing the difference between good and evil. the greeks had their tools as well. a universal one called "reason" though their conclusions varied depending on the condition a soul was in.

God is the God of all souls, not just the jews.

The modern church today tries to do away with the levitical food instructions, with a verse quite often in Acts 10.

Before I talk on the verse, I'd like to mention that this was Peter. Jesus's arguably closest disciple. And that, at this point in time, it was 37 AD. So, almost 40 years since the death of Yeshua (Jesus). Just some back story. Also, 7 years prior, Peter was so spirit filled, he literally healed a "lame beggar" as it's written in the bible. Again, just some back story.

Anyway, In this verse in Acts 10 a sheet was lowered with all animals clean and unclean, and the Father said, kill and eat. Peter's response? He rejected it with a passion, saying that he had never once eaten anything common or unclean. So, Jesus apparently did away with following the law, and even food restrictions, and if you follow the law, according to today's church, you are condemned. Yet, 37 years after Jesus ascended into heaven, he STILL hasn't eaten anything common or unclean.

That makes no sense, but ignoring that. God then tells him two more times and tells him, (paraphrasing) "don't call anything I've made clean common or unclean! So, confused, he gets up. The author of this book makes note of him thinking deeply and being confused as to what the vision meant.

Now, some additional backstory is that God sent him three gentiles to have the gospel preached to them, and at this point in time, Jews had a man-made law saying that gentiles were unclean. That they weren't to be befriended, to be eaten with, or to have them in your house, or to be in their house

He understands that God sent the gentiles, based on them quite literally attesting to this. So, he goes with them, and along this journey when he arrives, he realizes, and even says himself (again, rough paraphrase) "I know understand that I am not to call people common or unclean that which God has made clean, and that the gospel of Jesus is meant for them as well".

He quite literally tells us that this vision was about people, not food. Yet, people ignore this, seeking justification for bacon. Even though, if Jesus made the law something you DON'T need to follow, why is Peter still following it 37 years later? He walked with, ate with, and was great friends with Jesus, wouldn't he have known? Don't forget the backstory I linked, people want to bring up walking in the spirit, but Peter so walked with the spirit that he was able to HEAL people, and STILL observed the laws. It's because, the laws aren't what saves us, but the laws are things that we should desire to follow if we truly do care for the Father, and not just what he can do for us. Not because they will save us, only faith can do that. But, because they make us more like Him, because they are His ways, and because it's what He wants us to do. That verse I linked - Psalm 119:94 - I am thine, save me; for I have sought thy precepts. Not only could David look forward prophetically and know the Messiah was coming, giving him faith, but despite this faith, he "sought" God's precepts. That was how he knew, that he was the Father's, because even after He was already saved, he still desired and sought after the ways of the Father.

Hopefully my long winded response helped you brother. Pray on the things I've said if you're still feeling iffy about them. Pray that you'll be given revelation, and guidance, and that you will know what you are to do. Peace be to you, in the name of Yeshua HaMashiach. (Jesus the Messiah).

what people ignore is the fact that peter understood the law and yet people still want to follow it while they refuse to understand it.

you have decided for yourself to put yourself into this kind of bondage. so remember who the authority was, it was your own heart. and if you do it for good reasons then God will be pleased but if you do it for evil reasons then God will be unhappy. I encourage you to search deeply in your heart as to why you do what you do and be open to what God will tell you inside of yourself as you stay quite and know that the Lord is God.

all I got to say is that thanks to an ignorant teenager and a jewish DR I don't have part of my willy anymore and I won't stand for foolish jews cutting unwilling babies foreskins off anymore.

Noxot said:

what people ignore is the fact that peter understood the law and yet people still want to follow it while they refuse to understand it.

you have decided for yourself to put yourself into this kind of bondage. so remember who the authority was, it was your own heart. and if you do it for good reasons then God will be pleased but if you do it for evil reasons then God will be unhappy.

all I got to say is that thanks to an ignorant teenager and a jewish DR I don't have part of my willy anymore and I won't stand for foolish jews cutting babies foreskins off anymore.

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Definitely have to do it for the right reasons. To be more like, be more obedient to, and to love the Father.

I can't tell if YOU decided to get circumcised as a teen, or your parents were teens when they had you. Idk, but yeah. Nah, I'm not preaching circumcision. That's one of the things Yeshua did away with. Yeshua can make you a "jew" inwardly, without needing to be circumcised. Although, I am circumcised, but it's more of an American tradition, and not really for salvation. I wouldn't condone anyone getting circumcised for salvation. No part of the law is to be followed for salvation, I'll say that again for the OP's sake. But, because you ARE saved, you should work on getting to the place where you desire to follow the law. Out of love, not need. The Father will be well pleased if it comes from the heart, and not from the "oh snap I didn't know this chili had pork in it, I'm gonna burn! BAN CHILI!!" fear based religious type of thinking.

I along with many babes were circumcised unwillingly (thanks mom). but in my eyes and what God has shown me is that if I try to obey the law then I will fail but if I live to him then I fulfill the law because the law is for sinners and does not have to exist at all if there is no sin. so I won't allow sin to make me think that i'm obeying the law to be saved, because the only salvation to me is union with God in his kingdom forever and ever.

so I don't find a need to follow parts of the law and not follow other parts. I want to cling to God because this is how I will fulfill the spirit of the law. the letter gives death. the sabbath is for man and not man for the sabbath. so maybe I want to rest two days or even more instead of one. maybe I have seen how many law followers there are and how they all lose their sense of morality by blindly following orders.

I can not be a person if i'm forced to follow laws because it trys to make the law into something greater than me, and the Son of God died for my soul so I won't take my salvation in vain. the law is a teacher and it is good to contemplate it but the outer garment is something that is sometimes dirty and unworthy. I have no need to wear the vail of moses on my head, I want the glory that does not fade away.

amazingly peter was told by God himself to transcend the spiritual understanding of the law which I think hints that God wants us to be his souls, not robots. I think we can be pleasing to God by foolishly following some goofy rules, after all being with God is between you and God.

or maybe angels told humans what to eat because they knew those certain foods would help them develop in certain good ways. but those were the jews and different genetics might mean having different diets.

I understand the dangers of pork. I know you could even get tapeworms in your brain by them. I also know that many fish are getting too much mercury and that bigger fish eat smaller ones and thus have more concentrations of mercury. the food laws of God won't save us from modern day mercury problems. on that note i'm going to go eat some tuna.

Tolworth John said:

God's ultimate command is 'Be perfect as the Lord your God is Perfect.'

Yes you are right we cannot obey the law, but that is the point of the law. It shows us what sin/disobedience is.
The spirit indwelling in us knows what motivates us and God knows just how great a failure we are but he loves despite that knowledge.

We have to constantly have to return to God for forgiveness. 1John 1v9

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That is wrong. From Jesus own mouth the Greatest commandment is "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength". It is not to be perfect.

And to answer the OP, God said he would write his law on our hearts. By being sensitive to our hearts and the leading of the Holy Spirit we will be obeying God. We need ot be wary of the flesh though which wants what is contrary to the Spirit.

GirdYourLoins said:

That is wrong. From Jesus own mouth the Greatest commandment is "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength". It is not to be perfect.

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that command sounds the exact same as "be perfect because your Father in heaven is perfect."

what is perfection but to be near to God with all we are? because God is far beyond perfect.

Neogaia777 said:

How do, or can we "obey"...?

What is the best most effective way to obey?, and obey what exactly...?

Do we do so by knowing all the time knowing what "not to" do, or not...?

If not, then how does that work or operate...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

Click to expand...

Well, you are receiving some wonderful cousel ... from the Spirit. God works through the body to help you, counsel and the best is with appropriate scriptures ... don't have a Bible with me but you were given excellent scriptures above.
My thought first was, just read and study the Bible. Pray for understanding and He will feed you what you need, what are ready for. Some things take years to get
Obedience is difficult until you know what sin is, look in the mirror and be honest with yourself and see your sin. Godly sorrow brought you to repentance, right?
The Holy Spirit sanctifies us of sin throughout our lives even though Jesus washed them away - spiritually. So we have this pure spiritual compartment within us where God dwells, but still, the rest of us is the flesh -- where sin dwells. When you are born again, it doesn't mean that you become pure of thoughts and actions. We must mortify and say NO to our sins, even the thoughts before we act on them. Not all thoughts and ideas are self generated so know which ones are what Jesus would do. You have to know what He said and did first though.
So the old self needs to die: bad language, habits, activities and desires (lusts of the flesh), etc. You may even have to separate yourself from friends that are bad influences until you become equipped. There is a war going on in the spiritual realm and also in us. Paul struggled with the same thing, doing things he did not want to do. We have two natures, the spiritual and the flesh and when we die, we lose the flesh and go to the Lord pure and white as snow. Until then pray, study and say no to those unholy thoughts and actions., the fleshly desires and focus on things above that are eternal, that will not pass away.

Ephesians 6
10Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes.12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.17Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

18And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people. 19Pray also for me, that whenever I speak, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel, 20for which I am an ambassador in chains. Pray that I may declare it fearlessly, as I should.

Neogaia777 said:

How do, or can we "obey"...?

What is the best most effective way to obey?, and obey what exactly...?

Do we do so by knowing all the time knowing what "not to" do, or not...?

If not, then how does that work or operate...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

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Always, always do what you think is right.
Never do what others think is right for you
if you disagree.

Bible Search: what is right

Neogaia777 said:

How do, or can we "obey"...?

What is the best most effective way to obey?, and obey what exactly...?

Do we do so by knowing all the time knowing what "not to" do, or not...?

If not, then how does that work or operate...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

Click to expand...

How do we obey? Do you mean what causes a person to obey God? What is their motivation for obedience? Many believers obey God from a motivation of fear, or guilt, or obligation, self-righteousness or duty. But the only motive God accepts from us for our obedience is love.

1 Corinthians 13:1-3
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.
2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

God knows that love will take us farther and deeper with Him than any other motive. It will fuel our obedience far beyond what fear, or obligation, or pride can do. Love for God will produce joy in our obedience, it will make doing what God says a delight even when it costs us dearly. And so it is that the very First and Great Commandment God lays upon all of His children is to love Him with all of their heart, soul, mind and strength. (Matthew 22:36-38)

Neogaia777 said:

What is the best most effective way to obey?, and obey what exactly...?

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What do you mean by "effective"?

The most consistent way to obey is in full, loving surrender to God's Spirit. It is only as we get low before God that the flow of His Spirit's power moves unhindered in and through us and we are transformed into loving, faithful, obedient servants of Christ.

Romans 12:1-2
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

James 4:6-10
6 But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: "God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble."
7 Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.
8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
9 Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom.
10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.

1 Peter 5:6
6 Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you in due time,

"Surrender," "humble yourselves," "submit," "get under God's mighty hand" - the way up for a follower of Christ is always down. And the only motivation strong enough to compel us into full submission to God consistently is love.

Neogaia777 said:

Do we do so by knowing all the time knowing what "not to" do, or not...?

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Knowledge of God's commands is vital to keeping them. But, "all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: You shall love your neighbor as yourself." (Ga. 5:14)