How do OEC explain the fossil record?

notto · Jun 20, 2005

Blue2836 said:
I would expect that an absolutely ideal example of a transitional fossil would be one that is unquestionably the same species as a currently living one, with very slight mutations undoubtedly detailing the steps from its previous species to the species it is now. In other words, it would require more than just variation within a species which can be creatively described in any direction that the person detailing it wants to take it. It would require the ability to truly demonstrate the path that the whale, for example, took to become a land walking creature. It should not be examples of creatures that may or may not be merely examples of variation within different species. There must have been hundreds of thousands if not millions of years of these steps between species. If evolution really happened, these types of fossils should be abundant.

I hope the above somewhat describes what I'm talking about. Now, I know what you're saying. Fossils are hard to come by. However, we do have over a billion fossil specimens and unquestionably transitional forms should be there somewhere.

So you are asking for something that we would never expect to find. Transitional forms are abundant in the fossil record between higher orders, but what you are asking for is something we would not expect to be able to find due to the rare process of fossilization and something that we can't confirm because the only way to do it would be through genetic testing, impossible to do with fossils.

Of course we can find what you are asking for in living examples. Speciation has been observed in the lab and in the wild. Those living examples would seem to match your criteria for slight variation and definite lines of ancestry.

Sojourner<>< · Jun 20, 2005

shernren said:
Natural selection is a loophole in the 2nd law of thermodynamics? Hmm, I'm guessing your computer is too, by whatever criteria you're using.

According to the second law of thermodynamics, the entropy in a closed system cannot be reduced without an external influence. In the case of my computer, entropy was effectively reduced by various manufacturing companies. However I can now be assured of the fact that the entropy of my computer system will slowly increase as it eventually breaks down.

It's interesting that this particular computer system is of a nearly extinct breed since it's rather slow and has alot of problems doing what I ask it to do. Because of this, the model was not a survivor in the computer market
since there were others with much better specifications that just outperform it. I'd expect those models to survive until they become obselete, but I would not attribute the process of selection of the fittest to be accountable for the actual manufacturing process of those computers.

shernren said:
And as for hydraulic sorting it's just a matter of time before Gluadys' lilies and ferns pop up.

And what fearsome lilies and ferns they would be.

notto · Jun 20, 2005

Sojourner<>< said:
I'd expect those models to survive until they become obselete, but I would not attribute the process of selection of the fittest to be accountable for the actual manufacturing process of those computers.

But if it was a virus or baceteria exposed to antibiotics, you would.

Sojourner<>< · Jun 20, 2005

notto said:
But if it was a virus or baceteria exposed to antibiotics, you would.

Viruses and bacteria adapt as do all successful life forms through natural selection, but they are not continually re-created or re-designed. I still don't see how adaptation actually accounts for the original design and creation life.

notto · Jun 20, 2005

Sojourner<>< said:
Viruses and bacteria adapt as do all successful life forms through natural selection, but they are not continually re-created or re-designed. I still don't see how adaptation actually accounts for the original design and creation life.

adaptation doesn't account for the original creation of life. That is still unknown. What we do know is that natural selection can (and has) designed.

Comparing manufactured inanimate objects to ones that we know can reproduce and over time have populations change and adapt is not a very good analogy. Claiming that because computers are manufactured, that adapted life and populations are doesn't make for a valid analogy.

shernren · Jun 20, 2005

And just how does natural selection decrease the entropy of the world? Hmm.

Well I can't remember the whole of gluadys' example offhand, but what I do remember is that apparently, hydraulic sorting does a poor job of predicting the relative positions of lilies and ferns in the fossil record compared to the conventional model.

How do OEC explain the fossil record?

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