How do OCD victims understand Romans 14?

[guitarintro]

How do OCD sufferers deal with this particular passage in Romans 14: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=romans+14?

Some have told me the verse means: "if you think it is wrong, then for you it is wrong". Now I get the feeling this can be misinterpreted very easily, especially among OCD sufferers. Simply because any intrusive thought that enters the mind can really cause anxiety and confusion.

What happens when we think something is wrong, but it really isn't wrong in any way? Most importantly, how do we distinguish between what our heart is trying to tell us (the truth) and what OCD is trying to tell us (what we should ignore)?

 

[Jayangel81]

I have struggled with this a while ago, we need to remember that God is bigger than our doubts and our condemning thoughts.

We also need to search for discernment that comes from the Holy Ghost. I cannot give you a step by step process on how it goes because it comes from God himself.

I have prayed to the Lord and used writing as a way for me, but the Lord works differently in all of us.

He can give us discernment if we seek for it, when we seek for it we also need to make sure that it is for the right reasons as well. I know my motives have gone amiss more than quite a few times, and didnt have the foggiest clue until God revealed it to me.

God is more than willing to reveal our hearts to us, but we must wait patiently, in Faith for Him to do so in His time.

James 1:5-8 says that He is willing to give us the wisdom we seek, but we must ask in Faith.

There is not much more I can say.

Thing is We should have God be the Lord of our hearts if our heart is telling us something is wrong, than it could very well be the Holy Ghost telling us "Hey I dont like that" But we need discernment first, or we can be decieved very easy.

And well I hate to say this but those who are sick with what we have will have a harder time discerning what is real to what is not. But we must remember :

"......... but with God all things are possible." —Matthew 19:26

Peace to you my friend

~James

 

[ObsessedButBlessed]

I interpret the verse quite literally, which, in my interpretation, this is not talking about sin or anything decidedly wrong as outlined in the Word. So, if you're a vegetarian, why would I serve you meat? I would just be causing you to stumble, and that would not be showing Christ's love for each other. Think of it this way. There are things that Christians determine in everyday living that everyone - even Christians - do differently. Perhaps one Christian couple decides that they do not want to kiss until their wedding day. While *I personally* would not do that, who am I to judge and say that they are wrong for making that decision? Perhaps another Christian woman only decides to wear long skirts/dresses because they feel it's appropriate. While I may not have the same decision, I should not try to make her stumble by offering her a pair of pants. If a Christian decides not to shop at a certain store because they don't agree with the owner's beliefs, I should not try to persuade them to forgo their convictions and shop there anyway. Does that make sense?

But, I know as OCDers we may interpret this differently. I know we OCDers get caught up in "is this a sin" "is that a sin" "how do I know?" which is what I think you're really after with this question.

Remember what Paul teaches us about the law being written on our hearts:

Even Gentiles, who do not have God’s written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it. They demonstrate that God’s law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right. Romans 2:14-15

We can trust that even if the Gentiles - who were not originally God's chosen people and therefore did not have the Law (Ten Commandments) to read - still had the Law written on their hearts. My therapist gave me some great advice once. With OCD, it's really hard to trust ourselves. We have to ignore our instinctive actions and responses to these types of thoughts and feelings. However, when a real issue comes up - we have to trust that our brains know it. I know this is counter-productive to OCD. I know how we can go around and around in our heads for hours trying to figure something out. When that happens, pray for God to give you discernment and guidance. God does not hide the truth from us; He willingly provides us with all the guidance we need in his Word.

Also, I really like what John has to say about this subject:

Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue, but with actions and in truth. This then is how we know that we belong to the truth, and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts (feelings), and he knows everything. 1 John 3:18-20

John goes on to say that if our hearts fail to condemn us, we can still approach God in confidence, that He will forgive us because we obey Him and remain in fellowship with Him:

Sometimes our hearts wrongly condemn us, especially with OCD. It can be so confusing. You ask what happens when our hearts wrongly condemn us. Nothing happens. OCD really likes to use guilt - it has been said that when we encounter an OCD spike, we respond in one of four ways: anxiety (most common), anger, guilt and doubt. Guilt is only useful when we've actually done something wrong, but unfortunately for us, our guilt meter seems to be malfunctioning. It's a running joke between my husband and I that if anyone ever wants me to do anything, just make me feel guilty about it! So if we are confused about whether we have sinned or not, or whether or not that OCD thought was a sin or not, we have a backup plan for when we are confused.

We have someone to come to our defense: Jesus.

My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous. He himself is the sacrifice that atones for our sins—and not only our sins but the sins of all the world. - 1 John 2

So, let's break down all of this information.

• We know that we are made alive in Christ and the Law is written on our hearts. Therefore, we have no excuse for sins.

• But because we have been saved, our hearts (conscience/Holy Spirit) condemn us when we do sin.

• Sometimes, our hearts fail to condemn us. When that happens, we have Jesus to intercede for us on our behalf.

• We also know that God is greater than our feelings, especially when our hearts wrongly condemn us - as it often does with OCD.

So, it appears as though our bases are covered here. Now, at the heart of your question, what you're really asking is, how do we know what's real, and what is OCD?

I really only have one answer for that: if you think it might be OCD, it's OCD. If it walks like OCD, talks like OCD, acts like OCD, we can safely assume it's OCD. And even if we wrongly identify something as OCD (our hearts fail to condemn us), Jesus still intercedes for us on our behalf.

I hope this makes sense. It's hard for us Christians because we have such different standards than the rest of the world. Hang in there.

 

[MandyG]

Wow SAD,
I really needed to hear that this morning. I have been really sick with a sinus, eye, & ear infection for over 6 days now. It seems that when we are sick that the OCD attacks even stronger because we are already weak from feeling bad. I have been condemning myself so much and asking if it really OCD or if it is that I am an evil person because I can't get these overwhelmingly awful thoughts out of my mind. I felt like I was doing better but now with this sickness I feel like I have regressed so much. It is so nice to hear a refresher that Jesus loves me and that he understands OCD. It is always the guilt that the OCD brings that makes me question who I am in Christ. Please pray for me because I am having a hard time. I just want to wake up one morning and POOF, the OCD monster is gone and I can live a normal life. Jesus help me!
-Mandy

 

[guitarintro]

Thanks for the thoughtful responses everyone. This grabbed my attention: How our hearts can wrongly condemn us.

For example, I asked in a different forum whether it was wrong to meet Christians on Halloween. ( http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7298015&page=3 ) Everyone is saying it is not wrong, and I understand why it is not wrong, but I still doubt from time to time. Is this my OCD making me doubt or is it my heart telling me that, for me, meeting Christians on Halloween is consider wrong? (Is it mentioned in Romans 14 that 'if you think it is wrong, then for you it is wrong'?)

It has really prevented me from getting to know this Christian girl (whom I am really interested in). I am really confused with the situation. It's like, if I date her, would I be going against my heart telling me not to date a Christian I met on Halloween? Would I be commiting a life-long sin if I actually got together with her? And if I do not date her, would it be superstitious because meeting people on Halloween is no problem? What am I supposed to do? What is the right thing to do?

I am really frustrated with this. I struggle with identifying whether it is OCD or whether it is my heart making me question whether it is wrong to meet Christians on Halloween.

I mean, if I met her on another day instead of Halloween, I think I would have already talked to her a lot more by now.

 

[kaykay9.0]

Personally, I don't like to celebrate Halloween and that is something you have to decide for yourself. Christians do have differing opinions on that. But one thing I feel like I can tell you for sure is that it IS OCD when you start being concerned about WHEN or WHERE you met someone. Just because you met someone on a certain day or a certain place, in my opinion, has absolutely NO bearing on whether the relationship is right or not. One thing does not "contaminate" another so to speak. It seems like several of your struggles have centered around whether or not one thing "contaminates" another. It doesn't. Please don't get caught up in that kind of stuff. That IS OCD talking.

 

[guitarintro]

...But one thing I feel like I can tell you for sure is that it IS OCD when you start being concerned about WHEN or WHERE you met someone. Just because you met someone on a certain day or a certain place, in my opinion, has absolutely NO bearing on whether the relationship is right or not. One thing does not "contaminate" another so to speak. It seems like several of your struggles have centered around whether or not one thing "contaminates" another. It doesn't. Please don't get caught up in that kind of stuff. That IS OCD talking.

I understand what you are saying and it makes sense to me. I even brought this up with my brother during brunch today. And even he confirmed there is nothing wrong with meeting someone on Halloween. It's just coincidence.

Let me clarify this for my own understanding. If I am concerned or fear meeting/dating a Christian on a particular day, like Halloween, then that is simply OCD. As a result, I should ignore this OCD because it has no bearing on the relationship. If I am successful and do get together with her, it would NOT be considered a sin because it was OCD that condemned me in the first place and not my heart. Is this correct?

 

[kaykay9.0]

I understand what you are saying and it makes sense to me. I even brought this up with my brother during brunch today. And even he confirmed there is nothing wrong with meeting someone on Halloween. It's just coincidence.

Let me clarify this for my own understanding. If I am concerned or fear meeting/dating a Christian on a particular day, like Halloween, then that is simply OCD. As a result, I should ignore this OCD because it has no bearing on the relationship. If I am successful and do get together with her, it would NOT be considered a sin because it was OCD that condemned me in the first place and not my heart. Is this correct?

Well, because of my own OCD issues (and I have them!!) I'm reluctant to tell you what to do or how to apply it, but I can tell you that in my humble opinion, many of your dilemnas and issues are definitely OCD issues, not reality of what's really sinful or wrong. And furthermore, on the halloween thing, October 31st is the Lord's day, just like the other 364.

Prayers for you that even with the OCD you will begin to be able to have more confidence in your own discernment.

 

[guitarintro]

I am not sure what else I can ask. It seems like every time I ask a new question and it gets answered, a new question comes up and I need to ask again and again and again. I am not sure what I am supposed to do. What am I supposed to do?

 

[kaykay9.0]

I am not sure what else I can ask. It seems like every time I ask a new question and it gets answered, a new question comes up and I need to ask again and again and again. I am not sure what I am supposed to do. What am I supposed to do?

All I can tell ya, my friend, is that this is the experience of OCD. It makes it you tend to "question" what you "know" as I read somewhere. Does that make any sense? That's why we always come full circle around to ...you have to treat the OCD to make real progress, not the symptoms of OCD.

 

[guitarintro]

Personally, I feel my questions have been answered on way or another. It's just that my mind keeps finding ways to RE-ASK these questions in different ways, like paraphrasing it. It's like I need questions to be answered specifically about that situation. At the same time, I am able to answer my own questions.

I don't know, it feels like when I am about to be 'free', I get anxious from something. Sometimes I feel that when I get too happy, an intrusive thought pops up to remind me I am sinful and I better do something that will make me unhappy. For example, I meet this Christian girl (on Halloween) who encourages me to spend 30 minutes with God each day and somehow I still find something to worry about. So then I thought, okay, if I do not date that girl I met on Halloween, is that now considered superstitious? So either way, whether I date her or not, I have something to worry about.

Does this make sense?

If I date/marry her = is it against God's Will because I met her on Halloween?

If I do NOT date/marry her = is it superstitious?

I realized this topic has been beaten over and over again. People tell me, meeting someone on Halloween does not make the relationship good/bad. However, a new thought would pop up: Romans 14. If you think it is bad, is it bad for you?

I really am confused. There was a time I thought about giving up on her and moving on, but then I thought, would that be superstitious?

Fact is, I am really interested in her at the moment, but I want to do what's right and NOT live in a constant state of sin.

 

[tyield1102]

Hey Guitarinto
Sorry that you are having such a hard time right now. In my opinion dating this girl or marrying her is not a sin. I don't think God cares that you met her on Halloween so why should you? I think your superstitious about the date and that is what is causing your OCD to go into overdrive. You say that she is a christian and has told you to spend time with God, why would He be against that and consider it sin? You keep saying you feel like your sinning but our feelings can deceive us greatly which I think yours are right now. I think the only reason you "feel" it's not right is because your superstitous about the date. I know how hard it is not to go by your feelings because I struggle with that. My advice to you is to take it to the Lord and ask Him if this is what He wills. A friend of mine told me to sit down and really pray to God to relax and ignore anything thoughts or feelings and listen to my spirit and what it says. God will guide you in the way He wants you to go no matter what you think or feel. I will be praying for you that God will help you see through your feelings and know what He wills.