How do Messianic Jews understand John 7:53-8:12

[65James]

So if I remember right John 7:53-8:12 is called the periscope de adultera. But many earlier church leaders question it place in Scriptures because Jesus so easily forgave the adulteress woman plus many without regarding Jewish customs state John 7:53 makes no sense. So I was wondering do Jewish Believers have a united belief on this passage and if so what is it?

 

[ralliann]

So if I remember right John 7:53-8:12 is called the periscope de adultera. But many earlier church leaders question it place in Scriptures because Jesus so easily forgave the adulteress woman plus many without regarding Jewish customs state John 7:53 makes no sense. So I was wondering do Jewish Believers have a united belief on this passage and if so what is it?

****Jesus told them to carry out the law. He was not a witness to her adultery. His answer to them....

Joh 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.


Deut 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.
7 The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you.

***Because of witnesses who give false testimony, kill with their stones..... are liable to the same if discovered to have lied.

Deut 19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.
16 If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong;
17 Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days;
18 And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;
19 Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you.
20 And those which remain shall hear, and fear, and shall henceforth commit no more any such evil among you.

*** He who is without Sin ( false witness)
Ex 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
De 5:20 Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.
De 19:16 If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong;
De 19:18 And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;
Pr 6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

 

[daq]

So if I remember right John 7:53-8:12 is called the periscope de adultera. But many earlier church leaders question it place in Scriptures because Jesus so easily forgave the adulteress woman plus many without regarding Jewish customs state John 7:53 makes no sense. So I was wondering do Jewish Believers have a united belief on this passage and if so what is it?

Probably the closest thing to a united Messianic stance you will find would be through congregations associated with the UMJC and-or MJAA, (which I think, as of 2023, are now aligned with each other, or may even have united, whereas before that they were two separate entities). As I remember it they have lists of member congregations which may be found online but I am not sure how you would go about researching the specific subject matter you are interested in knowing about, (Pericope Adulterae is the scholarly term most often used for that passage).

 

[daq]

****Jesus told them to carry out the law. He was not a witness to her adultery. His answer to them....

Joh 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.


Deut 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.
7 The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you.

***Because of witnesses who give false testimony, kill with their stones..... are liable to the same if discovered to have lied.

Deut 19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.
16 If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong;
17 Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days;
18 And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;
19 Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you.
20 And those which remain shall hear, and fear, and shall henceforth commit no more any such evil among you.

*** He who is without Sin ( false witness)
Ex 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
De 5:20 Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.
De 19:16 If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong;
De 19:18 And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;
Pr 6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Isn't the typical first response, If she was caught in the act, where is the man? (Lev 20:10).

 

[ralliann]

Isn't the typical first response, If she was caught in the act, where is the man? (Lev 20:10).

They could have simply set her up. The point is Jesus was not there to provide testimony. They were testing him. He told them to carry out the law as judges.

 

[be(t)et lamed resh]

****Jesus told them to carry out the law. He was not a witness to her adultery. His answer to them....

Joh 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.


Deut 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.
7 The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you.

***Because of witnesses who give false testimony, kill with their stones..... are liable to the same if discovered to have lied.

Deut 19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.
16 If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong;
17 Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days;
18 And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;
19 Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you.
20 And those which remain shall hear, and fear, and shall henceforth commit no more any such evil among you.

*** He who is without Sin ( false witness)
Ex 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
De 5:20 Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.
De 19:16 If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong;
De 19:18 And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;
Pr 6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

On another note.
If her accusers were giving a truthful account then they would be guilty of death also.
Devarim
Adultery also concerns engagement before consummation. Meaning if a man or woman are promised by oath to join. Adultery in this circumstance could mean that the woman was found not to be a virgin. If so that means that the men that are witness are just as guilty.
Exception being father and betrothed.
Hence the without sin reference.
Halaqah

 

[be(t)et lamed resh]

They could have simply set her up. The point is Jesus was not there to provide testimony. They were testing him. He told them to carry out the law as judges.

The way I see it, Is that Yeshua was tested in this account and many other times, and always had an answer with a breath of Life. After All, the accusers were seeking their master of death just like as shown in a testing by the adversary seeking water in their own desert of greed.

 

[be(t)et lamed resh]

So if I remember right John 7:53-8:12 is called the periscope de adultera. But many earlier church leaders question it place in Scriptures because Jesus so easily forgave the adulteress woman plus many without regarding Jewish customs state John 7:53 makes no sense. So I was wondering do Jewish Believers have a united belief on this passage and if so what is it?

Simply put. A messianic will observe the Torah through a certain number of rings with an uncertain number of eyes to find a solution!

 

[ralliann]

The way I see it, Is that Yeshua was tested in this account and many other times, and always had an answer with a breath of Life. After All, the accusers were seeking their master of death just like as shown in a testing by the adversary seeking water in their own desert of greed.

The way I see it: Jesus was going around healing people of diseases, saying "your sins are forgiven you. It was about his authority casting out demons etc. The people were astonished at his doctrine, as he spoke with authority, not like the scribes and the Pharisees.

Mt 9:6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.


The rulers thought they had him in a predicament, how could he forgive an adultery? He didn't, nor did he condemn her but told her to repent sin .

If she was an adultress, the issue of the man is not relevant here. It would be shear speculation on someone's part
Abimilech and Abrahan's wife, He did not know.

3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou art but a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she is a man’s wife.
4 But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation?
5 Said he not unto me, She is my sister? and she, even she herself said, He is my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this.
6 And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.
7 Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine.

****Nothing about the man here either.....
12 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man’s wife go aside, and commit a trespass against him,
13 And a man lie with her carnally, and it be hid from the eyes of her husband, and be kept close, and she be defiled, and there be no witness against her, neither she be taken with the manner;
14 And the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be defiled: or if the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be not defiled:
15 Then shall the man bring his wife unto the priest, and he shall bring her offering for her, the tenth part of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil upon it, nor put

frankincense thereon; for it is an offering of jealousy, an offering of memorial, bringing iniquity to remembrance.
16 And the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the LORD:
17 And the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel; and of the dust that is in the floor of the tabernacle the priest shall take, and put it into the water:
18 And the priest shall set the woman before the LORD, and uncover the woman’s head, and put the offering of memorial in her hands, which is the jealousy offering: and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causeth the curse:
19 And the priest shall charge her by an oath, and say unto the woman, If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness with another instead of thy husband, be thou free from this bitter water that causeth the curse:
20 But if thou hast gone aside to another instead of thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee beside thine husband:
21 Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell;

 

[be(t)et lamed resh]

The way I see it: Jesus was going around healing people of diseases, saying "your sins are forgiven you. It was about his authority casting out demons etc. The people were astonished at his doctrine, as he spoke with authority, not like the scribes and the Pharisees.

Mt 9:6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.


The rulers thought they had him in a predicament, how could he forgive an adultery? He didn't, nor did he condemn her but told her to repent sin .

If she was an adultress, the issue of the man is not relevant here. It would be shear speculation on someone's part
Abimilech and Abrahan's wife, He did not know.

3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou art but a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she is a man’s wife.
4 But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation?
5 Said he not unto me, She is my sister? and she, even she herself said, He is my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this.
6 And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.
7 Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine.

****Nothing about the man here either.....
12 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man’s wife go aside, and commit a trespass against him,
13 And a man lie with her carnally, and it be hid from the eyes of her husband, and be kept close, and she be defiled, and there be no witness against her, neither she be taken with the manner;
14 And the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be defiled: or if the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be not defiled:
15 Then shall the man bring his wife unto the priest, and he shall bring her offering for her, the tenth part of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil upon it, nor put

frankincense thereon; for it is an offering of jealousy, an offering of memorial, bringing iniquity to remembrance.
16 And the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the LORD:
17 And the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel; and of the dust that is in the floor of the tabernacle the priest shall take, and put it into the water:
18 And the priest shall set the woman before the LORD, and uncover the woman’s head, and put the offering of memorial in her hands, which is the jealousy offering: and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causeth the curse:
19 And the priest shall charge her by an oath, and say unto the woman, If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness with another instead of thy husband, be thou free from this bitter water that causeth the curse:
20 But if thou hast gone aside to another instead of thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee beside thine husband:
21 Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell;

And if Yeshua neither forgave nor condemned the woman? What then did she need to repent of?
Repentance from guilt perhaps. As in she might have been involved with the conspiracy. Circumstantial evidence is greater than speculation and hypothesis

 

[daq]

****Jesus told them to carry out the law. He was not a witness to her adultery. His answer to them....

Joh 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.


Deut 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.
7 The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you.

***Because of witnesses who give false testimony, kill with their stones..... are liable to the same if discovered to have lied.

Deut 19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.
16 If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong;
17 Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days;
18 And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;
19 Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you.
20 And those which remain shall hear, and fear, and shall henceforth commit no more any such evil among you.

*** He who is without Sin ( false witness)
Ex 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
De 5:20 Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.
De 19:16 If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong;
De 19:18 And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;
Pr 6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Isn't the typical first response, If she was caught in the act, where is the man? (Lev 20:10).

They could have simply set her up. The point is Jesus was not there to provide testimony. They were testing him. He told them to carry out the law as judges.

I thought perhaps you had the answer because of one of your scripture quotes. However now I see that you are essentially ignoring the fact that they said she was caught in the act. If she was caught in the act, and yet they did not also bring the man, then you are not understanding the full impact of what is written and stated in the passage. The Scribes and Pharisees and were not ignorant of the Torah.

 

[be(t)et lamed resh]

The way I see it: Jesus was going around healing people of diseases, saying "your sins are forgiven you. It was about his authority casting out demons etc. The people were astonished at his doctrine, as he spoke with authority, not like the scribes and the Pharisees.

Mt 9:6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.


The rulers thought they had him in a predicament, how could he forgive an adultery? He didn't, nor did he condemn her but told her to repent sin .

If she was an adultress, the issue of the man is not relevant here. It would be shear speculation on someone's part
Abimilech and Abrahan's wife, He did not know.

3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou art but a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she is a man’s wife.
4 But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation?
5 Said he not unto me, She is my sister? and she, even she herself said, He is my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this.
6 And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.
7 Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine.

****Nothing about the man here either.....
12 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man’s wife go aside, and commit a trespass against him,
13 And a man lie with her carnally, and it be hid from the eyes of her husband, and be kept close, and she be defiled, and there be no witness against her, neither she be taken with the manner;
14 And the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be defiled: or if the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be not defiled:
15 Then shall the man bring his wife unto the priest, and he shall bring her offering for her, the tenth part of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil upon it, nor put

frankincense thereon; for it is an offering of jealousy, an offering of memorial, bringing iniquity to remembrance.
16 And the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the LORD:
17 And the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel; and of the dust that is in the floor of the tabernacle the priest shall take, and put it into the water:
18 And the priest shall set the woman before the LORD, and uncover the woman’s head, and put the offering of memorial in her hands, which is the jealousy offering: and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causeth the curse:
19 And the priest shall charge her by an oath, and say unto the woman, If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness with another instead of thy husband, be thou free from this bitter water that causeth the curse:
20 But if thou hast gone aside to another instead of thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee beside thine husband:
21 Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell;

Speculation:
I wonder if paul was one of the pharisees that brought the woman and accusation of adultery?

 

[ralliann]

And if Yeshua neither forgave nor condemned the woman? What then did she need to repent of?
Repentance from guilt perhaps. As in she might have been involved with the conspiracy. Circumstantial evidence is greater than speculation and hypothesis

Whatever the case was it was a trap. He simply told them to go ahead and carry out the law, it was not his place to judge her, as an eye witness. None were willing to cast the first stone. They had already gone through the process to supposedly give her the death penalty. They were setting him up to challenge his authority to forgive adultery.

 

[ralliann]

I thought perhaps you had the answer because of one of your scripture quotes. However now I see that you are essentially ignoring the fact that they said she was caught in the act. If she was caught in the act, and yet they did not also bring the man, then you are not understanding the full impact of what is written and stated in the passage. The Scribes and Pharisees and were not ignorant of the Torah.

It was a trap. And none were willing to stand by their testimony, not a one.

 

[ralliann]

Speculation:
I wonder if paul was one of the pharisees that brought the woman and accusation of adultery?

What difference would it make?

 

[ralliann]

I thought perhaps you had the answer because of one of your scripture quotes. However now I see that you are essentially ignoring the fact that they said she was caught in the act. If she was caught in the act, and yet they did not also bring the man, then you are not understanding the full impact of what is written and stated in the passage. The Scribes and Pharisees and were not ignorant of the Torah.

I also gave you Torah concerning a husbands jealousy. Where is the man. The man could have been a Roman citizen. If that were the case, Jew's had no jurisdiction over that man.

Ac 22:25 And as they bound him with thongs, Paul said unto the centurion that stood by, Is it lawful for you to scourge a man that is a Roman, and uncondemned?
Ac 22:26 When the centurion heard that, he went and told the chief captain, saying, Take heed what thou doest: for this man is a Roman.
Ac 22:27 Then the chief captain came, and said unto him, Tell me, art thou a Roman? He said, Yea.
Ac 22:29 Then straightway they departed from him which should have examined him: and the chief captain also was afraid, after he knew that he was a Roman, and because he had bound him.
Ac 23:27 This man was taken of the Jews, and should have been killed of them: then came I with an army, and rescued him, having understood that he was a Roman.

 

[daq]

I also gave you Torah concerning a husbands jealousy. Where is the man. The man could have been a Roman citizen. If that were the case, Jew's had no jurisdiction over that man.

Ac 22:25 And as they bound him with thongs, Paul said unto the centurion that stood by, Is it lawful for you to scourge a man that is a Roman, and uncondemned?
Ac 22:26 When the centurion heard that, he went and told the chief captain, saying, Take heed what thou doest: for this man is a Roman.
Ac 22:27 Then the chief captain came, and said unto him, Tell me, art thou a Roman? He said, Yea.
Ac 22:29 Then straightway they departed from him which should have examined him: and the chief captain also was afraid, after he knew that he was a Roman, and because he had bound him.
Ac 23:27 This man was taken of the Jews, and should have been killed of them: then came I with an army, and rescued him, having understood that he was a Roman.

The teachings from the scripture are in reference to the scripture for those who believe the scripture. Making stuff up is the perfect way to misunderstand the scripture and insert our views into it: and if we do that then we are essentially replacing the Logos of Elohim with our own logos-reasoning, (which is the same problem as with cherry-picking).

 

[ralliann]

The teachings from the scripture are in reference to the scripture for those who believe the scripture. Making stuff up is the perfect way to misunderstand the scripture and insert our views into it: and if we do that then we are essentially replacing the Logos of Elohim with our own logos-reasoning, (which is the same problem as with cherry-picking).

This says nothing about the man....
The priest charges her with an oath.....which causes the curse......

Num 5:28 And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed.
29 This is the law of jealousies, when a wife goeth aside to another instead of her husband, and is defiled;
30 Or when the spirit of jealousy cometh upon him, and he be jealous over his wife, and shall set the woman before the LORD, and the priest shall execute upon her all this law.
31 Then shall the man be guiltless from iniquity, and this woman shall bear her iniquity.

The rulers were jealous of Jesus......and his authority.......He made more disciples than John......
There is nothing in that lesson of scripture that speaks about, not bringing the man. Jesus was not a lawful Judge in that case anyway.

 

[daq]

This says nothing about the man....
The priest charges her with an oath.....which causes the curse......

Num 5:28 And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed.
29 This is the law of jealousies, when a wife goeth aside to another instead of her husband, and is defiled;
30 Or when the spirit of jealousy cometh upon him, and he be jealous over his wife, and shall set the woman before the LORD, and the priest shall execute upon her all this law.
31 Then shall the man be guiltless from iniquity, and this woman shall bear her iniquity.

The rulers were jealous of Jesus......and his authority.......He made more disciples than John......
There is nothing in that lesson of scripture that speaks about, not bringing the man. Jesus was not a lawful Judge in that case anyway.

Again you've only proven my point: not only did you invent the idea that the man may have been a Roman, and therefore not subject to the jurisdiction of the Scribes and Pharisees, which is nowhere in the text, but now you have cherry picked a verse from a passage that clearly states the opposite of what is in the John passage.

Numbers 5:11-13 KJV
11 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
12 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man's wife go aside, and commit a trespass against him,
13 And a man lie with her carnally, and it be hid from the eyes of her husband, and be kept close, and she be defiled, and there be no witness against her, neither she be taken with the manner;

That word taken in verse thirteen means the same thing it does in the John passage, caught, (in the act).

Numbers 5:11-13 LSV
11 And YHWH speaks to Moses, saying,
12 "Speak to the sons of Israel, and you have said to them: When any man’s wife turns aside, and has committed a trespass against him,
13 and a man has lain with her [with] the seed [from] intercourse, and it has been hid from the eyes of her husband, and concealed, and she has been defiled, and there is no witness against her, and she has not been caught,

The passage you quoted, Numbers 5:28-31, is set in the context of a woman who may or may not have committed adultery and has not been caught: it is the exact opposite of the John passage to which you have applied it.

John 8:4 KJV
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

Logos is required, and Logos comes by context: not cherry-picking.

 

[ralliann]

Again you've only proven my point: not only did you invent the idea that the man may have been a Roman, and therefore not subject to the jurisdiction of the Scribes and Pharisees, which is nowhere in the text, but now you have cherry picked a verse from a passage that clearly states the opposite of what is in the John passage.

And nowhere in the text is anything about not bringing the man. Jesus said nothing about that. Your point is speculation beyond the text....

Numbers 5:11-13 KJV
11 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
12 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man's wife go aside, and commit a trespass against him,
13 And a man lie with her carnally, and it be hid from the eyes of her husband, and be kept close, and she be defiled, and there be no witness against her, neither she be taken with the manner;

That word taken in verse thirteen means the same thing it does in the John passage, caught, (in the act).

Numbers 5:11-13 LSV
11 And YHWH speaks to Moses, saying,
12 "Speak to the sons of Israel, and you have said to them: When any man’s wife turns aside, and has committed a trespass against him,
13 and a man has lain with her [with] the seed [from] intercourse, and it has been hid from the eyes of her husband, and concealed, and she has been defiled, and there is no witness against her, and she has not been caught,

The passage you quoted, Numbers 5:28-31, is set in the context of a woman who may or may not have committed adultery and has not been caught: it is the exact opposite of the John passage to which you have applied it.

John 8:4 KJV
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

Logos is required, and Logos comes by context: not cherry-picking.

Concubines, Betrothed handmaids, bond servants, free and not free. Redeemed, not redeemed. We see all kinds of things with servant wives as well men servants. Such as Judges 19.

There are all kinds of made up ideas to make it about THE MAN. It just is not in the text period...
Lev 19:20 And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free.
21 And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the LORD, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, even a ram for a trespass offering.
22 And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the LORD for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him.

Sticking with the text: What did Jesus do, or say?
He told them to carry out the law on her, with a word of caution to the witnesses.
Everything beyond that is mere speculation/ made up.
I am simply answering your speculation, beyond what the text says....