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Sure, but you forget that man has a part in this. If someone refuses to accept God's forgiveness, God will not force him. However, there are consequences. If everyone is forgiven automatically, preaching the gospel is pointless.If sin is still an issue, what good was it for Jesus to take away the sin of the world at the cross, for both believers and unbelievers. Jesus did say it was finished.
Yes. Which was a terrible sin for those who claimed to be waiting for the Messiah, as Jews do still.I think it is widely taught that the Jewish people were being told to repent from sins and sinning. Yet reading Peter's words in the context of the passage, it appears he is telling them to repent (change their minds) about Jesus whom they had rejected.
He first informed them that they had killed the messiah:
Acts 2:23 KJV
23. Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God,
ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
In light of what he said, they replied "what must we do to be saved?"
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto
Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
In my ear, they are pricked in their heart about their rejection and killing of the Messiah. That is what they meant when they said "what shall we do?"
So when Peter said to repent (change your mind), he was talking about repenting (change their minds) about their rejection and killing of Jesus.
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you
in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Repent of your rejection of Jesus as your messiah, and (instead) be baptized in His name (as the Messiah) for the remission of sins.
But yes, we need to turn from our sins, but in this particular passage, Peter is talking about repenting from the rejection and killing of Jesus.
Sure, but you forget that man has a part in this. If someone refuses to accept God's forgiveness, God will not force him. However, there are consequences. If everyone is forgiven automatically, preaching the gospel is pointless.
Actually, those who are cast into the Lake of Fire are those whose names are not found written in the Lamb's Book of Life. I don't know where you get this "The Life of God" doctrine.-
Forgiveness of sin has nothing to do with whether a person believes in Jesus for The Life of God. Unbelievers who will reside in the lake of fire have their sins forgiven, they just do not have The Life of God. So they can not spend eternity in the presence of God, because that requires, The Life of God.
Actually, those who are cast into the Lake of Fire are those whose names are not found written in the Lamb's Book of Life. I don't know where you get this "The Life of God" doctrine.
Got it!The Life of God is Eternal Life, really you do not understand that. What do you think it means to have your name in The Book of Life. A born again child of God is there in the book because they have received God's free gift of Eternal Life.
having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart;
I don't know how you can say that. If a person's sins are not forgiven, they cannot have the Life of Christ.-
Forgiveness of sin has nothing to do with whether a person believes in Jesus for The Life of God. Unbelievers who will reside in the lake of fire have their sins forgiven, they just do not have The Life of God. So they can not spend eternity in the presence of God, because that requires, The Life of God.
The concept seems to be that Jesus died for all of the sins of all of mankind at all times and places, therefore everyone's sins have been (conditionally) forgiven. It is but a short step to universal salvation from that foundation. The question then arises as to why some (actually the vast majority of) folks end up in the Lake of Fire and others don't. That is where conditions placed on salvation kick in. Typically, the primary condition is that a person needs to believe in Jesus Christ in order to have his forgiveness activated. Otherwise, the forgiveness is a passive reality without any actual meaning in a person's (eternal) life. There are multitudes of other conditions placed upon people to secure actual forgiveness of sin . Synergistic churches such as the RCC have lengthy lists of conditions.I don't know how you can say that. If a person's sins are not forgiven, they cannot have the Life of Christ.
I don't know how you can say that. If a person's sins are not forgiven, they cannot have the Life of Christ.
As I told you before, unless you deal with your OCD aggressively, no answer will satisfy such questions.How do I know im saved???
As I've said, God saves sinners. If someone refuses to accept that they are a sinner, they remain in their sin. Jesus stated this in the example of the penitent tax collector and the self righteous Pharisee. Christians are already forgiven. If we sin, all we need do is confess our sin. (1 John 1:9).The concept seems to be that Jesus died for all of the sins of all of mankind at all times and places, therefore everyone's sins have been (conditionally) forgiven. It is but a short step to universal salvation from that foundation. The question then arises as to why some (actually the vast majority of) folks end up in the Lake of Fire and others don't. That is where conditions placed on salvation kick in. Typically, the primary condition is that a person needs to believe in Jesus Christ in order to have his forgiveness activated. Otherwise, the forgiveness is a passive reality without any actual meaning in a person's (eternal) life. There are multitudes of other conditions placed upon people to secure actual forgiveness of sin . Synergistic churches such as the RCC have lengthy lists of conditions.
Thank you. I am in complete agreement with you and merely tried to show the usual responses I have received to that question, all of which IMO have serious weaknesses.As I've said, God saves sinners. If someone refuses to accept that they are a sinner, they remain in their sin. Jesus stated this in the example of the penitent tax collector and the self righteous Pharisee. Christians are already forgiven. If we sin, all we need do is confess our sin. (1 John 1:9).
"Repent" means a change of mind. God alone can change the heart. I see nowhere that it says we must be sorry for sin, we must grieve over it or otherwise beat ourselves up. The born again have a live conscience. Conviction is not condemnation. "We were wrong" is all that we need to say. That can be hard enough for some!
I dare not comment on Catholicism. I'm in enough trouble as it is.
Catholics believe God forgives sin. As per the Bible, Jesus give the Apostles and their successors the power to forgive sin in His name. I would not consider the forgiveness of sins after Baptism as having a "lengthy list of conditions." As per the sacrament, you have to be sorry, confess your sins before a priest if possible, and then there is some kind of satisfaction or "penance." Penance is typically very minimal.The concept seems to be that Jesus died for all of the sins of all of mankind at all times and places, therefore everyone's sins have been (conditionally) forgiven. It is but a short step to universal salvation from that foundation. The question then arises as to why some (actually the vast majority of) folks end up in the Lake of Fire and others don't. That is where conditions placed on salvation kick in. Typically, the primary condition is that a person needs to believe in Jesus Christ in order to have his forgiveness activated. Otherwise, the forgiveness is a passive reality without any actual meaning in a person's (eternal) life. There are multitudes of other conditions placed upon people to secure actual forgiveness of sin . Synergistic churches such as the RCC have lengthy lists of conditions.
There are, doubtless, many conditions placed upon salvation in your church. Otherwise, every member, including yourself, would believe in OSAS. All one would need to do would be to be baptized and then one would be assured of eternal life in heaven. However, as we all know, it is hardly that simple. After baptism all is well until sin creeps in. The first sin to avoid is missing weekly mass, which is a mortal sin. Thus, a basic condition for any hope of salvation is baptism plus attending weekly mass. Then along comes a host of other things, not the least of which is Purgatory. With Purgatory, which once was a fearful and dreaded place, one could shorten one's prison sentence there (and still can, for that matter) with all manner of ways of obtaining merit from the Treasury of the Merits of the Saints which is administered, very frugally it seems, by the Pope and doled out only to Catholics who are worthy of them.Catholics believe God forgives sin. As per the Bible, Jesus give the Apostles and their successors the power to forgive sin in His name. I would not consider the forgiveness of sins after Baptism as having a "lengthy list of conditions." As per the sacrament, you have to be sorry, confess your sins before a priest if possible, and then there is some kind of satisfaction or "penance." Penance is typically very minimal.
I don't know how you can say that. If a person's sins are not forgiven, they cannot have the Life of Christ.
I am curious as to how you view my post #128. Thank you.Never said peoples sins are not forgiven. I said just the opposite, that everyone, believer and unbeliever sins have been taken away at the cross. Sin is not an issue in whether a person believes in Jesus for Eternal Life salvation
I am curious as to how you view my post #128. Thank you.
Thank you.The first sentence is accurate Jesus did die for the sins of all people. But it is not a short step to universalism. Because because the way to Eternal Life salvation is narrow (belief in Jesus) as opposed to universal salvation who states all will be eventually saved. So their way is as wide as it can get.
Also there is no, conditions placed on Eternal Life salvation, there is one condition and that is belief in Jesus.
Forgiveness of sin for the believer is a fellowship (that includes eternal rewards) issue with God not a Eternal Life issue.
The unbeliever remains a sinner for all eternity but if the unbeliever can commit more sins in the lake of fire those sins have also been taken away at the cross. God forgiveness is limitless.
OSAS was not taught by Jesus or the Apostles nor by Christ's Church. It became popular after English translations of the Bible came into being, when so many Protestants missed the meaning of the original Koine Greek. It is an alluring concept but again, not what Jesus taught. While I congratulate you for previously referring to the Catechism, I must say, "there you go again." There is a whole section about what the Catholic Church teaches about salvation at Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 3 SECTION 1 CHAPTER 3 ARTICLE 2 see CHAPTER THREEThere are, doubtless, many conditions placed upon salvation in your church. Otherwise, every member, including yourself, would believe in OSAS. All one would need to do would be to be baptized and then one would be assured of eternal life in heaven. However, as we all know, it is hardly that simple. After baptism all is well until sin creeps in. The first sin to avoid is missing weekly mass, which is a mortal sin. Thus, a basic condition for any hope of salvation is baptism plus attending weekly mass. Then along comes a host of other things, not the least of which is Purgatory. With Purgatory, which once was a fearful and dreaded place, one could shorten one's prison sentence there (and still can, for that matter) with all manner of ways of obtaining merit from the Treasury of the Merits of the Saints which is administered, very frugally it seems, by the Pope and doled out only to Catholics who are worthy of them.
Thank you for making my point that the Catholic Church has many conditions placed upon its members before they can hope to enter heaven.OSAS was not taught by Jesus or the Apostles nor by Christ's Church. It became popular after English translations of the Bible came into being, when so many Protestants missed the meaning of the original Koine Greek. It is an alluring concept but again, not what Jesus taught. While I congratulate you for previously referring to the Catechism, I must say, "there you go again." There is a whole section about what the Catholic Church teaches about salvation at Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 3 SECTION 1 CHAPTER 3 ARTICLE 2 see CHAPTER THREE
GOD'S SALVATION: LAW AND GRACE
The section does not even mention mass or purgatory. Once again you've missed the boat. There is very little we know about the cleansing fire in the Bible, your additional comments about a prison are not found in the Bible.
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