How do English readers understand the verb ‘command’ in Jesus sayings?

[Andrewn]

On my Arabic Gospel, the verb ‘command’ in Jesus sayings is translated to a word whose meaning is close to the verb ‘advise’; it doesn’t sound, in any way, the verb ‘order’ (as in the army).

The Greek word "entello" G1781 means to "give charge" which does not have the meaning of "order" as in the army. But it is also stronger than "advise." It is kind of in the middle.

 

[KerimF]

Jesus never forced anyone to follow him or to trust him. In Luke 8, after he cast out demons the people came and asked him to leave, so he left. Jesus gives us hope and life. We follow him because he loves us and he saves us not because we are forced. I believe that in order for a choice to follow Jesus to have meaning, we must allow people the choice to walk away. Sometimes I wish I could take the Gospel and beat people with it till their brains get screwed in right, but not because they are stupid or rebellious or spiteful, but because I am so afraid for them. The story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16 was to me more about the rich man than Lazarus. He was aware. He could think and feel. That story was told 2000 years ago and that man is still there in pain with no more hope. It would be easier if we could force people to believe and to do right, but it just doesn’t work that way; so, I try each day to do better to be a better Christian because they are dying everyday, the people of this Earth, and it is forever.

Not only, Jesus never forced anyone to follow or trust Him, He also didn’t oppose His killers; He even forgave them.

By the way, please don’t worry about Jesus message.

Even on the today’s Gospel (after about 2000 years), it focuses solely on God’s Unconditional Love which contradicts clearly all approved rules of survival (the right of self-defense for individuals and groups) and selfishness (the right of applying a certain justice on others). And while no one is allowed to (or interested in) preaching it openly as clear as Jesus does on the Gospel, no ruling system in the world dares banning, as being a crime, the continuous printing/copying of its verses (which are clearly not for this world). For example, is it possible for the king/prince/president of a country, anywhere on earth, to address the people openly with “Love your enemies” as Jesus said it clearly and lived it?!


For instance, to me in the least, one of the reasons for which Jesus came is that I won’t see myself a weird person when I feel better for not judging others, when I feel better by taking care of those who have to play my enemies, also for not believing in World’s Peace since real peace cannot exist (in general) even in one family and for knowing that every privilege rich man (or one serving a powerful rich group) cannot, even if he wants to, be honest and sincere every time he addresses the multitudes openly... etc.

 

[dqhall]

Not only, Jesus never forced anyone to follow or trust Him, He also didn’t oppose His killers; He even forgave them.

By the way, please don’t worry about Jesus message.

Even on the today’s Gospel (after about 2000 years), it focuses solely on God’s Unconditional Love which contradicts clearly all approved rules of survival (the right of self-defense for individuals and groups) and selfishness (the right of applying a certain justice on others). And while no one is allowed to (or interested in) preaching it openly as clear as Jesus does on the Gospel, no ruling system in the world dares banning, as being a crime, the continuous printing/copying of its verses (which are clearly not for this world). For example, is it possible for the king/prince/president of a country, anywhere on earth, to address the people openly with “Love your enemies” as Jesus said it clearly and lived it?!


For instance, to me in the least, one of the reasons for which Jesus came is that I won’t see myself a weird person when I feel better for not judging others, when I feel better by taking care of those who have to play my enemies, also for not believing in World’s Peace since real peace cannot exist (in general) even in one family and for knowing that every privilege rich man (or one serving a powerful rich group) cannot, even if he wants to, be honest and sincere every time he addresses the multitudes openly... etc.

In the Garden of Gethsemene Jesus told Peter to put away his sword, for those who live by the sword will die by the sword. Jesus tipped over the tables in the temple Herod built, but did not resist arrest.

Jesus testified against corrupt leaders and was hated.

John 7:7 The world can’t hate you, but it hates me, because I testify about it, that its works are evil.

 

[KerimF]

If the Biblical law tells me, you shall not murder and U.S. laws are against murder, if Jesus in his Sermon on the Mount tells me I should not murder or be angry with my brother, then I should not murder. Arguing whether it is advice or a commandment is a waste of time.

What you say is right.
And, in general, even an atheist observes the last 6 Jewish commandments.
For example, an atheist refuses to be a killer to gain more money (or else) for himself, though he doesn't have a god to tell him not to kill.
In spite of this, in the material world, one may be allowed to kill (if not worse) if he does it while he serves his ruling system (as in wars).

I am afraid that 'Love your enemies' (which contradicts one's instincts of survival and world's rules) is far beyond any imposed rule.

Here is an experience I lived:
During my military service, many decades ago, I was an officer (of the lowest grade) being an engineer. One day, I was asked to join a training session (of small guns). I simply refused to participate, so there was the following conversation:
They: This is done for your benefit so you can defend yourself when necessary.
Kerim: Thank you, but I have no enemies in my life.
They: You may not have enemies. But there is always the possibility that certain enemies invade our country, sooner or later.
Kerim: Sorry, what do you mean by 'enemies'?
They: They are those who will impose their will on us by force.
Kerim: Do you mean like what you try doing with me now?
They smiled and left me alone. I was never asked again to join such session. During my service, I just taught electronics in a military academy.

 

[KerimF]

Wow, the ten suggestions ... I wonder if that's really the correct translation.

A nice joke, thank you.

To me in the least, Jesus came to bring me all necessary knowledge about life (I needed to know about my own existence and how the material world runs on the ground in reality... a big topic), not suggestions, point of views or the like. For sure, He didn’t come to bring me or confirm certain rules about love; true love is strictly related to one's free-will (the only free-will one may have) so it could be lived by real free independent persons only (otherwise 'loving enemies’ is a crime of treason for example).

So, not in vain, Jesus says:

"Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

 

[Daniel9v9]

I respect your belief.
After all, all formal theists are supposed to have such a belief towards the Creator they heard of, right?

Jesus only doesn't say 'obey or worship' your Creator because obedience and worship are of a one-way relationship.
A faithful slave has to obey and praise his master. A master is not supposed to obey or praise his slave.

This is why Jesus says 'love' instead; because true love is a two-way relationship.

But no one can deny that obeying and praising Jesus (or else) are much easier than loving Him truly which is almost impossible for most people in the world to do.
Speaking practically, loving God truly is trusting fully (to no limit) God's Will in everything one may face in his life as being important to exist. For example, If no one is created to play my enemy, how could I have the opportunity (several times) to feed my soul with the joy of opposing my worldly instincts of survival/selfishness and loving the enemies (as if they were myself) whom Jesus is referring to? But, this is just me.

Well, I don't think we want to pit "obey" against "love". Simply, I believe we are to fear, love, and trust in God above all things. He has given us commandments to obey, but the summary of the Law is love. What I was getting at is that our Lord is not giving out optional folksy suggestions, but that He speaks from a place of authority as God in flesh, and the words that He speaks are good news; the Gospel.

Blessings!

 

[RDKirk]

I command
{John 15:14}
{John 15:17}

my commandment(s)
{John 14:15}
{John 14:21}
{John 15:10}
{John 15:12}

commanded
{Matthew 10:5}
{Matthew 11:1}
{Matthew 14:19}
...

Sorry, the list is long.

But we may have different English versions of the Gospel.

Are you saying, then, that Jesus' repeated commandment that we love each other was merely "advice." Are you saying that love is not Jesus' requirement for Christians, but just a suggestion?

 

[KerimF]

I looked up words translated as "command" in my electronic bible. There were 5 greek words translated into 1 english word in the text.

View attachment 317306

The only non-assertive context I came across was word 2036, that isn't usually translated as "command."

View attachment 317307

If you don't have a strongs dictionary tool, you can pop these numbers into the search at blueletterbible.org and see the word usage context in the bible as well as the definition.

The good news is that, in reality, every person around the world understands whatever was written or is said in the way that suits best his priorities in life.
But for someone to join properly a certain formal group (religious or political), his beliefs need to be almost similar to the ones of this group (actually of the head's group)

So, I guess, it is better for the today's Christian to believe that Jesus is a Divine Commander (not the Sole Incarnated Divine Teacher of life, God) since this belief is a prerequisite to join any formal Christian Church or Denomination in the world.

 

[KerimF]

The Greek word "entello" G1781 means to "give charge" which does not have the meaning of "order" as in the army. But it is also stronger than "advise." It is kind of in the middle.

And since the middle verb between 'order' and advise' doesn't exist in English, one likely chooses 'order' to be on the safe side by pleasing his earthly rulers (if not God too if he thinks that God is one-of-his-kind Being and is pleased to play the Supreme Ruler over his tiny creatures).

 

[KerimF]

In the Garden of Gethsemene Jesus told Peter to put away his sword, for those who live by the sword will die by the sword. Jesus tipped over the tables in the temple Herod built, but did not resist arrest.

Jesus testified against corrupt leaders and was hated.

John 7:7 The world can’t hate you, but it hates me, because I testify about it, that its works are evil.

"In the Garden of Gethsemene Jesus told Peter to put away his sword, for those who live by the sword will die by the sword."
This was necessary to happen so that Peter would have, because of fear for doing something wrong with his sword, to deny Jesus, soon later, not once but 3 times. This was a clear sign that there was not even one person in the world who dared saying openly "I believe in whatever this man, Jesus, said". In other words, it was supposed that not only Jesus body died on the cross but his message also died completely on the day of Crucifixion. This was not enough because Jesus let his Apostles hide for 40 days (the period of time for which a widow may be isolated to prove she has no life in her from her dead husband). Then, in spite of Peter denial and the 40 days of silence, not only the body of Jesus was resurrected (which was very important to happen for His Apostles and first Disciples) , Jesus message was resurrected too and it will be alive (though on the Gospel only) till the end of time. I said 'though on the Gospel only' because whoever may have the chance (much like a miracle) repeat before the world (for example, via satellites as privileged politicians do) some of the natural truths 'exactly' as revealed by Jesus on the Gospel, the world's Elite will not let him live more than 3 days.

"Jesus tipped over the tables in the temple."
Jesus tells me by doing this that, in the worst case, the reaction of our weak body may need doing unusual things but without touching any one's body.

"The world can’t hate you, but it hates me, because I testify about it, that its works are evil."
I am afraid that testifying is not condemning or even judging. On the other hand, this was necessary to give a solid pretext to those who had to ask for His Crucifixion (a very important event to happen).

 

[KerimF]

Well, I don't think we want to pit "obey" against "love". Simply, I believe we are to fear, love, and trust in God above all things. He has given us commandments to obey, but the summary of the Law is love. What I was getting at is that our Lord is not giving out optional folksy suggestions, but that He speaks from a place of authority as God in flesh, and the words that He speaks are good news; the Gospel.

Blessings!

Sorry, and perhaps I didn't understand you well. You give me the impression that every time you follow Jesus advice you don't feel a real joy in you. But you do it in order to avoid being punished by Heaven, in one way or another (now and/or in the after life).

On my side, even if the entire world may someday deny the existence of Jesus and his message, I will have no reason, at all, to change the way I live. Every time I have the opportunity to live God's Unconditional Love towards others, mainly strangers and enemies, I gain a real joy in me (my soul) ; a joy which is not limited by or related to time and place.
And about the after life, the parable of the steward {Luke 16:1-9} is one of Jesus clear hints... "And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations". 'The mammon of unrighteousness' is actually anything I may have because all I have are not mine but of God. Naturally, I will lose all what I still have as God's mammon at the death of my body (the end of my stewardship on earth).

 

[com7fy8]

This is why Jesus says 'love' instead; because true love is a two-way relationship.

But God commands that we love. And yes there is two-way relating in God's love . . . with each other >

"submitting to one another in the fear of God." (Ephesians 5:21)

But this mutual relating is commanded!

I just checked what Greek words for "command" can mean. Well, it can mean to pass on a message. But in case the message says to do something which God wants . . . then our Father expects us to do what He desires. So, it is not advice that we do not have to do.

Plus, God's word works in us to produce what God means by what He says > 1 Thessalonians 2:13. So, His command is not only advice from a distance, but He means what He wants done the way He in us creatively has us doing it.

"for it is God who works in you in both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

 

[Halbhh]

Hello everyone,

On my Arabic Gospel, the verb ‘command’ in Jesus sayings is translated to a word whose meaning is close to the verb ‘advise’; it doesn’t sound, in any way, the verb ‘order’ (as in the army).

In other words, on the Arabic Gospel, Jesus (also my Father in Heaven since they are unified since before Creation by the Divine Spirit of Love, the Holy Spirit) acts always like a loving knowledgeable father who advises his beloved sons so that they can be aware, in advance, of whatever they may face in their life and helps them know how to overcome them.

“Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”


By the way, I am afraid that when trust and love are imposed on someone to accept living them towards someone else they can be about anything but True Trust and Love.

Kerim

It's Life or Death as the eternal outcomes of whether or not you do as Christ said we must do.

And, we can only bear this good fruit solely and entirely from remaining on the Vine -- abiding in Christ, keeping our gaze on Him, keeping His words:

1 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

9“As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.

Read and hear:
Matthew 7:12 Context: Therefore whatever you desire for men to do to you, you shall also do to them; for this is the law and the prophets. 13 “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14 “For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. ... (continues)

 

[childeye 2]

You raised a good point.
I guess that even a Christian Arab may see Jesus and/or the Father in Heaven as a Divine Commander.
I think, in this case, he (an Arab or else) has to choose and join a Christian Church or Denomination whose teachings suit him best about how to obey, pray, worship and glorify God.

On my side, I just see God's Will in everyone I may meet. And I live based on this unlimited trust. So it is not surprising that everyone who knew/knows me saw/sees me as being no more of this world.

The fact is, there can only be One source of the energy that Created all things. Whatever God says is how it is. When we test that, we always find out He's right.
So whether it says command or advise, they are similar sentiments. Command being the stricter sense, but also implying a greater level of danger to one's self if unheeded.

 

[childeye 2]

By the way, I am afraid that when trust and love are imposed on someone to accept living them towards someone else they can be about anything but True Trust and Love.

Kerim

This is a great point with the exception that God's Spirit of Love/compassion is the same spirit of Life that was breathed into the man formed from the earth, who became a living soul. God's Spirit is a power and therefore a force.

 

[KerimF]

Are you saying, then, that Jesus' repeated commandment that we love each other was merely "advice." Are you saying that love is not Jesus' requirement for Christians, but just a suggestion?

I simply meant if someone cannot feel a real growing joy in him every time he opposes his natural instincts of survival and selfishness (God's instructions, embedded in all living things to guide them how to serve themselves and the world) by loving (caring of) unconditionally all others, how he could insist calling what he does 'love' while he does it just to avoid being punished.

In real life, it doesn't matter for a master if his slave loves him or not as long he obeys him very well. But this doesn't prevent a master to express his warm love towards his slaves in his speeches. And he doesn't mind hearing his slaves saying they love him with fear.

After all, anything could be said in this world... for example "Obey to protect your freedom".

 

[KerimF]

The fact is, there can only be One source of the energy that Created all things. Whatever God says is how it is. When we test that, we always find out He's right.
So whether it says command or advise, they are similar sentiments. Command being the stricter sense, but also implying a greater level of danger to one's self if unheeded.

I also say:
There can only be One Will behind the energy that Created all things.

But Jesus came to tell me that this One Will is not of a 'one-of-his-kind' Being (as Allah of Islam is, for example). Otherwise, such a Lonely Being may tell us everything about the created life but the Unifying Spirit of Love which could exist in the friendship of two independent free humans who accepted to trust fully each other and have therefore one will. So, any outsider sees them as if they were just one person not two.

This is why Jesus let the Holy Spirit be the core/center of his entire message.
"Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven unto men.
And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."

In other words, if someone cannot perceive in any way the existence of the Unifying Spirit of Love he has no choice but believing that he was created to serve one of the Supernatural Supreme Rulers known by the world. In case of an atheist, he just prefers serving an earthly ruling system instead.

 

[bling]

Hello everyone,

On my Arabic Gospel, the verb ‘command’ in Jesus sayings is translated to a word whose meaning is close to the verb ‘advise’; it doesn’t sound, in any way, the verb ‘order’ (as in the army).

In other words, on the Arabic Gospel, Jesus (also my Father in Heaven since they are unified since before Creation by the Divine Spirit of Love, the Holy Spirit) acts always like a loving knowledgeable father who advises his beloved sons so that they can be aware, in advance, of whatever they may face in their life and helps them know how to overcome them.

“Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”


By the way, I am afraid that when trust and love are imposed on someone to accept living them towards someone else they can be about anything but True Trust and Love.

Kerim

Do you follow Jesus' advice like a command?
I do not have an issue with it just being "advice" since all of Jesus' commands/advice are for our best interest. It becomes our privilege and honor to follow Jesus' advice, because not following the very best advice gets us in trouble.

 

[childeye 2]

I also say:
There can only be One Will behind the energy that Created all things.

But Jesus came to tell me that this One Will is not of a 'one-of-his-kind' Being (as Allah of Islam is, for example). Otherwise, such a Lonely Being may tell us everything about the created life but the Unifying Spirit of Love which could exist in the friendship of two independent free humans who accepted to trust fully each other and have therefore one will. So, any outsider sees them as if they were just one person not two.

This is why Jesus let the Holy Spirit be the core/center of his entire message.
"Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven unto men.
And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."

In other words, if someone cannot perceive in any way the existence of the Unifying Spirit of Love he has no choice but believing that he was created to serve one of the Supernatural Supreme Rulers known by the world. In case of an atheist, he just prefers serving an earthly ruling system instead.

Well, you have eloquently summed it up. In the Male/Female aspects of spiritual identity, no one can tell whether they are giving or taking when they embrace one another, and so is Faith, a faith to faith.

 

[KerimF]

Do you follow Jesus' advice like a command?
I do not have an issue with it just being "advice" since all of Jesus' commands/advice are for our best interest. It becomes our privilege and honor to follow Jesus' advice, because not following the very best advice gets us in trouble.

Well said. But I am not sure what you mean exactly by "... gets us in trouble". Thank you.

By the way, does a good scientific teacher impose his knowledge on his students? He doesn't. But the wise student take advantage of what he learnt from his teacher in his future business.

Similarly, Jesus came to give me all the knowledge I need. So it was up to me to take advantage of what I learnt from Him, or not, in my life. Being selfish, I chose to live God's Unconditional Love/care towards all others in order to feed my soul and let it survive for eternity in God's Realm of Love