How do creationists feel when people accuse them of lying for Jesus?

[stone]

I'm just going to copy and paste this from my blog. LInk here.

This was one of the 1st dreams that got my attention that there is something unusual happening to me.

What you have to keep in mind is that i wrote these things down before they happened. That is the most important point for you as a skeptic to keep in mind. It is important also for you to be aware of the time stamp on the post in the blog. It's also important for you to observe that if i had edited it, and added anything to it, that it would have an entry, "last edited" with a date change. You will notice that it does not. I had this dream that night, wrote it here in my blog that morning, and it came to pass that afternoon. This is only one that is in my blog, i have many more and can even provide more after today if i want to.

***

I was on a 4 wheeler. There was a girl and a boy rideing with me, behind me, holding on for the ride. I was indoors, the ceiling was high, but there was a road, dirt road in front of me, there was very tall grass, sunflowers and other weeds grown up all around the area. I began to drive forward. The motor, of course reved up as i gave it more gas to get through mud and taller grass. I began to noticed lots of windows to my right side.



The girl behind me was asking if we were going to get stuck. Everytime she asked, ahead of me the path would appear to be more difficult to pass. I was going over large puddles of mud and then very tall grass, but each time i went over it without a delay.

On my left was a wall, and on my right windows, they went by quickly, but never ended.

The dirt road began to incline, from a higher end on the right side, closest to the windows, to the lower end on the left. I heard the girl behind me say, "i was afraid of that". I just punched it and started going faster. The road began to incline more and more until i was completely horizontal. I kept thinking, o boy im gonna wipe out. I just held on and kept going.

I stopped, in front of me was grass taller than me and a puddle of mud with water so deep that it appeared that i would just sink in it if i tried to drive over it.

She asked me if we were stuck, i said no, turned to my left and there was a doorway opened with no door. Inside it looked like an old barn. I saw another doorway with an opening that went outside. I could see the sunlight comeing through the boards. I said, we'll just go out that way.

That's where the dream ended, or where i woke up.

I remember thinking i was gonna have to smash some spiders and maybe kill any snakes that might be hideing under the old stuff.

Now that i think about it, the being inside the whole time, reminds me of a church. The area where all the chairs and stuff are suppose to be. but it was an old dirt road that never ended, with some impossible parts to pass.


***

1st you should see that it was entered between 9 and 10 am. The windows passing by frequently are the windows of a subway train passing by. the room, or barn looking thing with the boards spaced apart so that sunlight entered through the cracks of the boards is where the body of the missing woman was found. I'm sure you hard core skeptics could do some google searches and figure out what time the bomb threat started in New York that day.

 

[flatworm]

That's it?

I honestly can't even make out what events this dream is supposed to predict. All you say is "it came to pass that afternoon" before the cut-and-paste, and

is where the body of the missing woman was found. I'm sure you hard core skeptics could do some google searches and figure out what time the bomb threat started in New York that day.

Could you give some kind of specifics as to what incident you're even talking about here?

How does a bomb threat in new york relate to a 4 wheeler, a girl, a boy, a dirt road, sunflowers, an incline, tall grass, and a deep puddle?

 

[consol]

I told you that i can hear gods voice, and that he speaks to me.

There is a very very simple explanation for what's happening to you stone,
you are now at the first stage, I believe the medical term is ' Nutty as a fruit cake',
the next stage will be when you start killing prostitutes because God said you should,
after that it's just a matter of time before you kill one too many and the cops catch you,
then it's into the rubber room for you, where you will be left on your own to talk with your God,
you will be fed through a tube and given electric dancing lessons, with music by 'The Amps', it's illuminating,
the uniform is nice though, baggy pants, with a rather fetching jacket with leather straps around the back,
you will enjoy it, no more working for you my lad, life will be easy from here on in, that's why it always pays to be a believer.

 

[Electric Skeptic]

I'm just going to copy and paste this from my blog. LInk here.

This was one of the 1st dreams that got my attention that there is something unusual happening to me.

What you have to keep in mind is that i wrote these things down before they happened. That is the most important point for you as a skeptic to keep in mind. It is important also for you to be aware of the time stamp on the post in the blog. It's also important for you to observe that if i had edited it, and added anything to it, that it would have an entry, "last edited" with a date change. You will notice that it does not. I had this dream that night, wrote it here in my blog that morning, and it came to pass that afternoon. This is only one that is in my blog, i have many more and can even provide more after today if i want to.

***

I was on a 4 wheeler. There was a girl and a boy rideing with me, behind me, holding on for the ride. I was indoors, the ceiling was high, but there was a road, dirt road in front of me, there was very tall grass, sunflowers and other weeds grown up all around the area. I began to drive forward. The motor, of course reved up as i gave it more gas to get through mud and taller grass. I began to noticed lots of windows to my right side.



The girl behind me was asking if we were going to get stuck. Everytime she asked, ahead of me the path would appear to be more difficult to pass. I was going over large puddles of mud and then very tall grass, but each time i went over it without a delay.

On my left was a wall, and on my right windows, they went by quickly, but never ended.

The dirt road began to incline, from a higher end on the right side, closest to the windows, to the lower end on the left. I heard the girl behind me say, "i was afraid of that". I just punched it and started going faster. The road began to incline more and more until i was completely horizontal. I kept thinking, o boy im gonna wipe out. I just held on and kept going.

I stopped, in front of me was grass taller than me and a puddle of mud with water so deep that it appeared that i would just sink in it if i tried to drive over it.

She asked me if we were stuck, i said no, turned to my left and there was a doorway opened with no door. Inside it looked like an old barn. I saw another doorway with an opening that went outside. I could see the sunlight comeing through the boards. I said, we'll just go out that way.

That's where the dream ended, or where i woke up.

I remember thinking i was gonna have to smash some spiders and maybe kill any snakes that might be hideing under the old stuff.

Now that i think about it, the being inside the whole time, reminds me of a church. The area where all the chairs and stuff are suppose to be. but it was an old dirt road that never ended, with some impossible parts to pass.


***

1st you should see that it was entered between 9 and 10 am. The windows passing by frequently are the windows of a subway train passing by. the room, or barn looking thing with the boards spaced apart so that sunlight entered through the cracks of the boards is where the body of the missing woman was found. I'm sure you hard core skeptics could do some google searches and figure out what time the bomb threat started in New York that day.

I have absolutely no idea what this dream is supposed to have predicted.

 

[consol]

I have absolutely no idea what this dream is supposed to have predicted.

Neither does he, because his God doesn't tell him everything, only bits here and bits there,
but you can rest assured, the rubber room awaits.

Religion corrupts, fundamentalism corrupts absolutely.
Religion dissolves the brain, all it allows a brain to do, is think about religion.

 

[Nitron]

Neither does he, because his God doesn't tell him everything, only bits here and bits there,
but you can rest assured, the rubber room awaits.

Religion corrupts, fundamentalism corrupts absolutely.
Religion dissolves the brain, all it allows a brain to do, is think about religion.

I dunno, you seem to "think" about religion more than most Christians...

 

[anonymous1515]

There is a very very simple explanation for what's happening to you stone,
you are now at the first stage, I believe the medical term is ' Nutty as a fruit cake',
the next stage will be when you start killing prostitutes because God said you should,
after that it's just a matter of time before you kill one too many and the cops catch you,
then it's into the rubber room for you, where you will be left on your own to talk with your God,
you will be fed through a tube and given electric dancing lessons, with music by 'The Amps', it's illuminating,
the uniform is nice though, baggy pants, with a rather fetching jacket with leather straps around the back,
you will enjoy it, no more working for you my lad, life will be easy from here on in, that's why it always pays to be a believer.

Creepy imagery

 

[Inan3]

Which is just another way of saying,
'Make it up as you go along', or 'Make it mean whatever you want it to mean'.

The bible seems to be a liars handbook, that why, for hundreds of years, it has attracted so many con men,
years ago, the bible allowed the clergy to sell places in heaven, and frighten people into giving them money,
although that's not really fair, gullable people have always been easy pickings for con men,
and religion has always been a sure fire platform for making money, because there will always be gullable people.

And it seems that the bible belt of the US is the best place for breeding gullable people,
because that seems to the place that attracts the most con men, someone once said, 'there's one under every stone'.

Consol how do you feel when both evolutionists and creationists both come into agreement concerning you and your threads?

 

[consol]

Consol how do you feel when both evolutionists and creationists both come into agreement concerning you and your threads?

It doesn't bother me at all, for one simple reason, most of those people are Americans,
and it is the American way to believe in something.

I am British, so unlike the Americans we do not accept that religion is the norm,
in the US, believing in a God, any God, is not at all unusual, in fact it is the norm,
where as religion for 75% of British people does not exist, we do not trust in a God,
and if anyone in the UK has a religion it is usually a personal thing.

Religion for the British is like buying a car, in the US if you go to a car lot you are pounced on by a salesman,
and they try to talk you into buying a car, if that happened in the UK people would just walk away,
in the UK, you are left alone to look at the cars, if you like one YOU go to a salesman,
if you don't see anything you like, you walk away,
the same with religion, the hard sell is the American way, in the UK, people decide for themselves.
we do not have religious radio and TV stations frightening people into giving them money.

But I am under no illusions, the more Americanised the British youth become, the more they will
be subjected to the same pressures the American youth have always been under.

 

[LordTimothytheWise]

When ever creationism is discussed people are heard to say that creationists twist, misconstrue or blatantly tell lies,
what have creationists got to say against these allegations? do you lie for Jesus?

Actually I am more likely to mistrust those pouring out all the vitriol than those who are taking it.

When someone comes up spewing hatred and venom like PZ Meyers, I have more of a tendency to see them as dishonest than a quiet good natured well meaning scientist like Behe who genuinely thinks there is some kind of design in the world.

I think PZ has much more to gain by being dishonest than Behe, who would be eviscerated if he made the sort of foul ups and misrepresentations that PZ can get away with because he is on the side of the Consensus and the voice of the majority.

 

[LittleNipper]

It doesn't bother me at all, for one simple reason, most of those people are Americans,
and it is the American way to believe in something.

I am British, so unlike the Americans we do not accept that religion is the norm,
in the US, believing in a God, any God, is not at all unusual, in fact it is the norm,
where as religion for 75% of British people does not exist, we do not trust in a God,
and if anyone in the UK has a religion it is usually a personal thing.

Religion for the British is like buying a car, in the US if you go to a car lot you are pounced on by a salesman,
and they try to talk you into buying a car, if that happened in the UK people would just walk away,
in the UK, you are left alone to look at the cars, if you like one YOU go to a salesman,
if you don't see anything you like, you walk away,
the same with religion, the hard sell is the American way, in the UK, people decide for themselves.
we do not have religious radio and TV stations frightening people into giving them money.

But I am under no illusions, the more Americanised the British youth become, the more they will
be subjected to the same pressures the American youth have always been under.

Well, many Christians see that Britian as no longer great, and that it's people in general accept a level of living that is not even seen among the poor of the United States. We note that the people of the British Isles seem to lack any real gumption. Christians in the
United States do not wish to see America become a history museum, where the only glory is that of the past. We have worked very hard to keep the value of the GOOD NEWS on the front burner as opposed to in some crusty old abbey for tourists.

 

[LittleNipper]

It doesn't bother me at all, for one simple reason, most of those people are Americans,
and it is the American way to believe in something.

I am British, so unlike the Americans we do not accept that religion is the norm,
in the US, believing in a God, any God, is not at all unusual, in fact it is the norm,
where as religion for 75% of British people does not exist, we do not trust in a God,
and if anyone in the UK has a religion it is usually a personal thing.

Religion for the British is like buying a car, in the US if you go to a car lot you are pounced on by a salesman,
and they try to talk you into buying a car, if that happened in the UK people would just walk away,
in the UK, you are left alone to look at the cars, if you like one YOU go to a salesman,
if you don't see anything you like, you walk away,
the same with religion, the hard sell is the American way, in the UK, people decide for themselves.
we do not have religious radio and TV stations frightening people into giving them money.

But I am under no illusions, the more Americanised the British youth become, the more they will
be subjected to the same pressures the American youth have always been under.

Well, many Christians see that Britian as no longer great, and that it's people in general accept a level of living that is not even seen among the poor of the United States. We note that the people of the British Isles seem to lack any real gumption. Christians in the United States do not wish to see America become a history museum, where the only glory is that of the past. We have worked very hard to keep the value of the GOOD NEWS on the front burner as opposed to in some crusty old abbey for tourists. My suggestion to you is that the best way to get a bargin with regard to cars is to invest time, energy, and listen to the bottom line. That is the only real way to find the truth. It takes some effort ---- not something lazy people or those set in their traditions are very willing to do.

 

[consol]

Actually I am more likely to mistrust those pouring out all the vitriol than those who are taking it.

When someone comes up spewing hatred and venom like PZ Meyers, I have more of a tendency to see them as dishonest than a quiet good natured well meaning scientist like Behe who genuinely thinks there is some kind of design in the world.

I think PZ has much more to gain by being dishonest than Behe, who would be eviscerated if he made the sort of foul ups and misrepresentations that PZ can get away with because he is on the side of the Consensus and the voice of the majority.

When you say 'spewing hatred and venom', do you mean anyone who speaks against creationism?
because you and I both know that creationism is deceitful and is built on sand, and it relies on deceit to survive,
because creationism has no proof, just words, you need only read some of the comments on this forum
to know that for every statement saying creationism is true, there are a hundred statements
saying why creationism is not true, and all giving evidence you can see with your own eyes,
just because creationism is believed, does not make it true.

Saying that if it's not in the bible, it's not true, is not only ridiculous, but pathetic.

And why is there a 'Consensus'?
could it have anything to do with thinking it through and coming to a conclusion?
on the one hand we have a story in a book that before I can believe it require me firstly to believe in magic,
on the other, I can look at things and decide for myself if what I see makes sense,
had you never been told there was a God, which would you say was true?

 

[consol]

Well, many Christians see that Britian as no longer great, and that it's people in general accept a level of living that is not even seen among the poor of the United States. We note that the people of the British Isles seem to lack any real gumption. Christians in the United States do not wish to see America become a history museum, where the only glory is that of the past. We have worked very hard to keep the value of the GOOD NEWS on the front burner as opposed to in some crusty old abbey for tourists.

LittleNipper you should get out more, at least roam the internet and take a look at the world around you,
you need only ask google to show you around and you will see for yourself what the UK is really like,
like creationism, you should not believe everything you read, find things out for yourself, come to your own conclusions,
it's true we have been here a long time, but surly you can't hold that against us, anymore than America being a young country is a fault,
every country in the world, (with the exception of the USA) has a past, good or bad, it has nothing to do with the people living there today,
having no past could well be the reason why the US is searching for an answer in religion,
because they are unable to identify with the here and now, they look backwards to the there and then,
and you can't get much older than religion, it goes back to the dawn of man, when fear dictated everything they did,
they looked to Gods to protect them from everything, and I mean everything.

 

[consol]

I don't know what happened there!!!
LittleNipper answered in thread 169 a thread that wasn't posted until 171, and I answered post 172 in post 170.
Strange, very strange, perhaps there is a God, at least a ghost.

IT'S JUST HAPPENED AGAIN.

 

[Inan3]

It doesn't bother me at all, for one simple reason, most of those people are Americans,
and it is the American way to believe in something.

I am British, so unlike the Americans we do not accept that religion is the norm,
in the US, believing in a God, any God, is not at all unusual, in fact it is the norm,
where as religion for 75% of British people does not exist, we do not trust in a God,
and if anyone in the UK has a religion it is usually a personal thing.

Religion for the British is like buying a car, in the US if you go to a car lot you are pounced on by a salesman,
and they try to talk you into buying a car, if that happened in the UK people would just walk away,
in the UK, you are left alone to look at the cars, if you like one YOU go to a salesman,
if you don't see anything you like, you walk away,
the same with religion, the hard sell is the American way, in the UK, people decide for themselves.
we do not have religious radio and TV stations frightening people into giving them money.

But I am under no illusions, the more Americanised the British youth become, the more they will
be subjected to the same pressures the American youth have always been under.

Well it certainly seems that you are under illusions because you obviously DON'T know about the American way. It's all something you (or some other person who is in error, also) has assumed about us and you are wrong. Americans also, decide for themselves. We are fortunate though that we have a few more choices than you obvously.

By the way, I have never felt frightened or pressured by any radio or TV show. I really haven't heard or seen too many shows which try to "frighten" people into giving money but if they did I would simply turn the channel. Americans are very capable of turning off what we don't agree with or feel is trying to put us into bondage or a particular mold. You might have heard...that is why we split from England in the first place.

So you see it's possible, after all, that the more Americanized British youth become may just contribute to their "independence."

 

[consol]

Well it certainly seems that you are under illusions because you obviously DON'T know about the American way. It's all something you (or some other person who is in error, also) has assumed about us and you are wrong. Americans also, decide for themselves. We are fortunate though that we have a few more choices than you obvously.

By the way, I have never felt frightened or pressured by any radio or TV show. I really haven't heard or seen too many shows which try to "frighten" people into giving money but if they did I would simply turn the channel. Americans are very capable of turning off what we don't agree with or feel is trying to put us into bondage or a particular mold. You might have heard...that is why we split from England in the first place.

So you see it's possible, after all, that the more Americanized British youth become may just contribute to their "independence."

The way Americans DISCUSS religion is very strange to a lot of British,
it's as if they ALL believe religion to be true but some of them don't much care for it and wish they didn't.

A lot of the youth in this country are most definitely becoming more Americanised,
they think it's OK to be as thick as they like, and think it's the governments job to look after them,
it's against the law to smack children in this country now, (since 2002) so they are growing up without any discipline whatsoever,
they have been known to try and make a teacher hit or grab them so they can sue them. (the American way)
every one wants something for nothing.

It will not be long before most of the educated people in the UK are Muslims,
and to be English will mean being a Muslim and slightly toasted, 30 years will see a huge change.

I have noticed a few TV ads here are from the US, asking people if they would like to live and work in the US,
it's the first time I have ever seen ads like this, one ends with 'Arny' saying, 'When can you start'?
we were always under the impression that the US had more brains than they needed? what's that all about?

 

[Inan3]

The way Americans DISCUSS religion is very strange to a lot of British,
it's as if they ALL believe religion to be true but some of them don't much care for it and wish they didn't.

A lot of the youth in this country are most definitely becoming more Americanised,
they think it's OK to be as thick as they like, and think it's the governments job to look after them,
it's against the law to smack children in this country now, (since 2002) so they are growing up without any discipline whatsoever,
they have been known to try and make a teacher hit or grab them so they can sue them. (the American way)
every one wants something for nothing.

It will not be long before most of the educated people in the UK are Muslims,
and to be English will mean being a Muslim and slightly toasted, 30 years will see a huge change.

I have noticed a few TV ads here are from the US, asking people if they would like to live and work in the US,
it's the first time I have ever seen ads like this, one ends with 'Arny' saying, 'When can you start'?
we were always under the impression that the US had more brains than they needed? what's that all about?

From what you say, it seems you have taken on the bad side of the Americans and going down hill just like America is. The only reason America was anything was because of God's blessing on it. As America (and any country for that matter) gets away from the Living God of the Bible, it will begin to spiral downward. Morals, judgement, freedom all begin to dissipate. Then the radical and tyrannical religions and governments move in. If I were you I'd turn to God not away from Him if I thought that was my future.

I'm sorry but I'm not familiar with that ad and I don't know who "Arny" is. It's probably not an ad I'd like to see either.

 

[NavyGuy7]

I think he means Arnold Schwarzeneggar. The GOVERNOR of California. Maybe.

Never heard of those, anyway. And why make spanking illegal? Of course they are becoming more "americanised" as you put it. Actually, I think it's just them wanting to be spoiled brats. And you assume too much. I think you're one of those who would rather bash America than actually come here for a few days and talk to people. Most of us just want to get on with our lives, not have to deal with commercials, car salesmen, etc. But we are also entitled to our own opinions, just as you are to yours.
And yes, I fear America is spiraling down too far. It's a step to the final realization of Revelations, sure, but what a painful step to take.

 

[Skaloop]

From what you say, it seems you have taken on the bad side of the Americans and going down hill just like America is. The only reason America was anything was because of God's blessing on it. As America (and any country for that matter) gets away from the Living God of the Bible, it will begin to spiral downward. Morals, judgement, freedom all begin to dissipate. Then the radical and tyrannical religions and governments move in. If I were you I'd turn to God not away from Him if I thought that was my future.

That totally explains the prosperity of non-Christian nations like, say, China and India.