How do creationists feel when people accuse them of lying for Jesus?

[Skaloop]

Once again it goes to definition. Death in the Bible sense is actually looked at as a separation rather than a cessation.

Which would be metaphorical.

 

[Inan3]

But they allegedly lived for hundreds of years after being kicked out of Eden. Clearly they were not literally dead.

If you want to suggest that they were spiritually dead or something, fine, but that's metaphorical, not literal.

To one who does not believe in the existence of spirit it could be believed to be metaphorical but to those of us who believe the spirit is just as real as the body it is literal!

 

[anonymous1515]

The mental gymnastics observed in this thread are amazing.

 

[consol]

Sure it would but you have to take the whole context to correctly interpret. Literal translation does not mean you have to take it for "one" definition. You have to find the truth throughout the scriptures and then you will have a literal translation.

Which is just another way of saying,
'Make it up as you go along', or 'Make it mean whatever you want it to mean'.

The bible seems to be a liars handbook, that why, for hundreds of years, it has attracted so many con men,
years ago, the bible allowed the clergy to sell places in heaven, and frighten people into giving them money,
although that's not really fair, gullable people have always been easy pickings for con men,
and religion has always been a sure fire platform for making money, because there will always be gullable people.

And it seems that the bible belt of the US is the best place for breeding gullable people,
because that seems to the place that attracts the most con men, someone once said, 'there's one under every stone'.

 

[IrishRockhound]

It would seem that given the number of contradictions in what you say you believe, you don't take your religion very seriously.

After all, the only person you should possibly be able to fool with the Genesis story, would be yourself,
because who would stop laughing long enough to even listen to what you were saying.

Whatever happened to "debate the position and not the person"? This is an ad hom attack on AV, which, considering the content of the post it replies to, I find baseless and unwarranted.

If you disagree, fair enough, but snide and insulting comments are going too far - especially when you're replying to a post that does not contain anything all that inflammatory!

On topic: it's rare enough to find a creationist who knowingly lies. Kent Hovind is about the only one I can think of offhand. I've encountered more that are misguided, ignorant of science, stubborn, or unwilling to examine their claims - but actual lies? Not so much.

 

[LittleNipper]

When ever creationism is discussed people are heard to say that creationists twist, misconstrue or blatantly tell lies,
what have creationists got to say against these allegations? do you lie for Jesus?

What did JESUS say when he was told he was lying about being the MESSIAH/GOD's SON?

 

[LittleNipper]

The mental gymnastics observed in this thread are amazing.

That is what thinking is all about. Students do not really learn by memorization... It is the application of thinking through events.

 

[anonymous1515]

That is what thinking is all about. Students do not really learn by memorization... It is the application of thinking through events.

Well, there is a difference between thinking and grasping for straws.

 

[consol]

What did JESUS say when he was told he was lying about being the MESSIAH/GOD's SON?

I don't know what Jesus said,
but I have no doubt that whatever it was I know for sure that you would have believed him.

The thing is, if I told you I was the son of God would you believe me? and if not, why not?

 

[Gremlins]

I don't know what Jesus said,
but I have no doubt that whatever it was I know for sure that you would have believed him.

The thing is, if I told you I was the son of God would you believe me? and if not, why not?

Presumably because you fail more than Jesus did in the prophecy-fulfilling department

 

[AV1611VET]

The thing is, if I told you I was the son of God would you believe me? and if not, why not?

I would not believe you. In fact, I'm told not to ---

[bible]Matthew 24:23[/bible]

 

[LittleNipper]

Well, there is a difference between thinking and grasping for straws.

Not as much as you might wish to rationalize.

 

[LittleNipper]

I don't know what Jesus said,
but I have no doubt that whatever it was I know for sure that you would have believed him.

The thing is, if I told you I was the son of God would you believe me? and if not, why not?

Was your birth predicted over a thousand years before your birth?
Did you have a full command of the Scriptures by age 12?
Did you change water into wine?
Did you walk on water?
Did you calm storms?
Did you heal the sick?
Did you make lame people walk?
Did you cause the blind to see?
Did you make youself disappear?
Did you tell someone you never met before all about themself?
Did you raise the dead?

If you fit that bill, perhaps you might have a right to the claim. If not, then you are not.

 

[AV1611VET]

If you fit that bill, perhaps you might have a right to the claim. If not, then you are not.

Indeed --- even then, he has a long way to go!

 

[MoonLancer]

I would not believe you. In fact, I'm told not to ---

[bible]Matthew 24:23[/bible]

And yet you still cant disprove my claim that I am God. How sad.

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=43595186#post43595186

 

[consol]

Was your birth predicted over a thousand years before your birth?
Did you have a full command of the Scriptures by age 12?
Did you change water into wine?
Did you walk on water?
Did you calm storms?
Did you heal the sick?
Did you make lame people walk?
Did you cause the blind to see?
Did you make youself disappear?
Did you tell someone you never met before all about themself?
Did you raise the dead?

If you fit that bill, perhaps you might have a right to the claim. If not, then you are not.

I expect you read all of that in a book, and have no way of knowing if it's true or not, it's pure supposition,
old books are full of miracles and fairies, take King Arthur for instance, Merlin performed miracles every day.

Verily I say unto thee, I am the son of God, I need not prove myself to thee or anyone, thee can believe me or thee can not,
but be it on thine own head if thou believest me not, I take not kindly to being called a liar, so be ye afraid, be ye very afraid,
For I am a vengeful son of a God, I can smite thee from afar, and have been known to smote whenst provoked.

(I love using 'Ye Olde English', don't you? it seems to add gravitas, but you already know that, don't you, your head is full of thee's and thou's)

 

[Split Rock]

Who are they that have lied? and what is their lie?

There is a long list of lies told by Creationists and "Creation Ministries." Here are a few:

1. "The concept of deep time or an old age for the Earth is based on evolutionary assumptions." This is impossible because the former came before Darwin's work was accepted.

2. "Geologists use rocks to date the fossils and use fossils to date the rocks; thus their dating methods use circular reasoning." Although relative dating can be used based on Index fossils, absolute dating of igneous rock is based on radiometric methods. These methods demonstrate that the index fossils do give accurate relative dating.

3. "Index fossils are used to date rocks and they are lined up based on evolutionary assumptions." This is also impossible, because index fossils were used long before Darwin's work was accepted. No one understood why they were consistant with particular sedimentary layers, they just knew they were. It was only when evolution was accepted that we found out why.

4. "Darwin recanted his theory on his death bed." This is also known as the Lady Hope Story. Lady Hope was no where near Darwin when he died.

5. "Nebraska Man was a fraud to try and prove there was a missing link." Nebraska Man was based on a misidentifed tooth and was never published as a missing link in any scientific publication. It was not a fraud and the fossil was correctly identified a few months later.

6. "The scientists working on comparing human and chimpanzee genomes made up the data that say we are >98% identical to chimpanzees." I think you are familiar with this one, Inan3. This percent similarity was based on substitution mutations and did not take into account indels (as indicated by the authors in the published literature). It was not made up.

There are many more.

 

[SiderealExalt]

Was your birth predicted over a thousand years before your birth?
Did you have a full command of the Scriptures by age 12?
Did you change water into wine?
Did you walk on water?
Did you calm storms?
Did you heal the sick?
Did you make lame people walk?
Did you cause the blind to see?
Did you make youself disappear?
Did you tell someone you never met before all about themself?
Did you raise the dead?

Neither was Jesus'. Notwithstanding the great difficulties historians have had in identifying a historical jesus separate from the mythologies of the biblical jesus. What is well documented are the inconsistencies and mistakes the unknown biblical authors made when attempt to write the Jesus myth in order to reconcile their story with jewish prophesy. This includes saying his "father" went back to the home of his birth because of a census that didn't happen remotely in his lifetime.

A supposition based on the supposed exploits of a literary character.I might as well ask. Did you have the ability to speak parsel tongue like harry potter unknowingly could at the age of 12?

If by that you mean may I pour water out of a glass and pour wine in then yes. If you mean a mystical, mysterious jesus used mystical mysterious methods to magically transform water to wine you might find me looking at you funny.

Which pretty much covers the rest of those fantastical claims.

This is the one hope I have in the Creation vs Evolution/natural selection debate. There truely isn't one. Creationism isn't science and isn't supported by evidence. Evolution is. So there never truely was a challenge. The dangerous side is in religious fundamentalists dangerously influencing children and attempting to hinder education.

 

[anonymous1515]

Was your birth predicted over a thousand years before your birth?
Did you have a full command of the Scriptures by age 12?
Did you change water into wine?
Did you walk on water?
Did you calm storms?
Did you heal the sick?
Did you make lame people walk?
Did you cause the blind to see?
Did you make youself disappear?
Did you tell someone you never met before all about themself?
Did you raise the dead?

If you fit that bill, perhaps you might have a right to the claim. If not, then you are not.

Yes. I did all of those. This post is evidence of my accomplishments. I said I did it, therefore I did it.

(If this post doesn't convince you, then why does the Bible? It says Jesus did it, and nothing more. Why do you believe it?)

Also, if you'd like, I can get 12 of my friends to come post testimonies to my divine miracles. I bet they'd even be able to get the stories straight!

 

[LittleNipper]

And yet you still cant disprove my claim that I am God. How sad.

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=43595186#post43595186

What am I thinking right now?