How do creationists feel when people accuse them of lying for Jesus?

[consol]

When ever creationism is discussed people are heard to say that creationists twist, misconstrue or blatantly tell lies,
what have creationists got to say against these allegations? do you lie for Jesus?

 

[necroforest]

When I used to not believe in evolution, I found it absolutely embarrassing when my peers would resort to underhanded tactics for two main reasons:

1) I felt they should be the ones holding the moral high ground with honesty and so forth

2) I also felt that if our position was true, it should hold up to any scrutiny and such tactics would be completely unnecessary.

#2 is why I'm no longer in that camp.

 

[AV1611VET]

When ever creationism is discussed people are heard to say that creationists twist, misconstrue or blatantly tell lies,
what have creationists got to say against these allegations?

This is one of the advantages of interpreting Genesis 1 literally - it's hard to lie when you take it as it was written. I can say though, from experience here, that there are several instances in which I have actually agreed with people, and have still been accused of twisting, misconstruing, or even lying - (one poster even went on a "quit lying" binge for awhile, and another was fond of accusing me of "bearing false witness against science"). I've been accused of being YEC and Omphalos, despite me even posting and highlighting from Wikipedia to the contrary. I can imagine that if a creationist posts for any length of time, especially a YEC, he's going to get accused of lying.

[bible]Matthew 27:63[/bible]

 

[FishFace]

This is one of the advantages of interpreting Genesis 1 literally - it's hard to lie when you take it as it was written. I can say though, from experience here, that there are several instances in which I have actually agreed with people, and have still been accused of twisting, misconstruing, or even lying - (one poster even went on a "quit lying" binge for awhile, and another was fond of accusing me of "bearing false witness against science"). I've been accused of being YEC and Omphalos, despite me even posting and highlighting from Wikipedia to the contrary. I can imagine that if a creationist posts for any length of time, especially a YEC, he's going to get accused of lying.

[bible]Matthew 27:63[/bible]

Oohh, the YEC and Omphalos thing again. Time for a poll?

If you interpret the Bible literally then how come Adam and Eve didn't literally die "in the day that" they ate of the forbidden fruit?

 

[AV1611VET]

Oohh, the YEC and Omphalos thing again. Time for a poll?

I don't need a poll --- I've been through it enough times.

If you interpret the Bible literally then how come Adam and Eve didn't literally die "in the day that" they ate of the forbidden fruit?

They did --- where do you think the term "born again" comes from?

[bible]John 3:3-6[/bible]

 

[Split Rock]

When ever creationism is discussed people are heard to say that creationists twist, misconstrue or blatantly tell lies,
what have creationists got to say against these allegations? do you lie for Jesus?

They seem to think that a small lie is OK if it is to preserve a "greater truth." In any case, hypocrisy is just one the more prevalent aspects of being a creationist, so it doesn't bother them.

 

[Split Rock]

This is one of the advantages of interpreting Genesis 1 literally - it's hard to lie when you take it as it was written. I can say though, from experience here, that there are several instances in which I have actually agreed with people, and have still been accused of twisting, misconstruing, or even lying - (one poster even went on a "quit lying" binge for awhile, and another was fond of accusing me of "bearing false witness against science").

Twisting? Yes.
Misconstruing? Yes.
Lying? No.

I've been accused of being YEC and Omphalos, despite me even posting and highlighting from Wikipedia to the contrary.

That seems to be a difference of opinion on what YEC and Omphalos include. You are a YEC, if you define YEC as someone who believes the earth was created 6,000 yrs ago, although you are not a YEC if you define it as someone who believes the earth is young.

I can imagine that if a creationist posts for any length of time, especially a YEC, he's going to get accused of lying.

Perhaps.

 

[AV1611VET]

That seems to be a difference of opinion on what YEC and Omphalos include. You are a YEC, if you define YEC as someone who believes the earth was created 6,000 yrs ago, although you are not a YEC if you define it as someone who believes the earth is young.

Funny, I never get accused of being OEC.

 

[consol]

This is one of the advantages of interpreting Genesis 1 literally - it's hard to lie when you take it as it was written. I can say though, from experience here, that there are several instances in which I have actually agreed with people, and have still been accused of twisting, misconstruing, or even lying - (one poster even went on a "quit lying" binge for awhile, and another was fond of accusing me of "bearing false witness against science"). I've been accused of being YEC and Omphalos, despite me even posting and highlighting from Wikipedia to the contrary. I can imagine that if a creationist posts for any length of time, especially a YEC, he's going to get accused of lying.

It would seem that given the number of contradictions in what you say you believe, you don't take your religion very seriously.

It's a bit like taking the story about Jack and the Beanstalk literally, and defending it from the pulpit, it's ludicrous,
and could never be taken seriously (let alone believed) by any right thinking person.

After all, the only person you should possibly be able to fool with the Genisis story, would be yourself,
because who would stop laughing long enough to even listen to what you were saying.

 

[Inan3]

Oohh, the YEC and Omphalos thing again. Time for a poll?

If you interpret the Bible literally then how come Adam and Eve didn't literally die "in the day that" they ate of the forbidden fruit?

They did.

 

[Inan3]

They seem to think that a small lie is OK if it is to preserve a "greater truth." In any case, hypocrisy is just one the more prevalent aspects of being a creationist, so it doesn't bother them.

Who are they that have lied? and what is their lie?

 

[PeterMaclellan]

They did --- where do you think the term "born again" comes from?

[bible]John 3:3-6[/bible]

Whoa whoa whoa, if you aren't allowed to interpret "day" as anything other then a 24 hour period then how can you claim that "death" is anything but the way that we currently think about as death as the end of biological life? And if death means something other then the end of biological life then couldn't day mean something other then a 24 hour period?

 

[Skaloop]

They did.

But they allegedly lived for hundreds of years after being kicked out of Eden. Clearly they were not literally dead.

If you want to suggest that they were spiritually dead or something, fine, but that's metaphorical, not literal.

 

[Nitron]

Who are they that have lied? and what is their lie?

Just a couple:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV8sN1UngFY&feature=related
http://members.aol.com/dwise1/cre_ev/bullfrog.html
http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2005/0325Dino_tissue.asp
http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2002/0328_liaosaurus.asp
http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2/4254news3-24-2000.asp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaKryi3605g

 

[InTheCloud]

The lie all the time, that is why PRATT was created.

 

[Inan3]

Whoa whoa whoa, if you aren't allowed to interpret "day" as anything other then a 24 hour period then how can you claim that "death" is anything but the way that we currently think about as death as the end of biological life? And if death means something other then the end of biological life then couldn't day mean something other then a 24 hour period?

Not knowng where you got the assumption that "day" was only allowed to be interpreted as a 24 hour day, I would like to elucidate a little on the word.

I'll begin with a simple definition and as far as I know it has nothing to do with creationism.

day

/deɪ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[dey] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1.the interval of light between two successive nights; the time between sunrise and sunset: Since there was no artificial illumination, all activities had to be carried on during the day. 2.the light of day; daylight: The owl sleeps by day and feeds by night. 3.Astronomy. a.Also called mean solar day. a division of time equal to 24 hours and representing the average length of the period during which the earth makes one rotation on its axis. b.Also called solar day. a division of time equal to the time elapsed between two consecutive returns of the same terrestrial meridian to the sun. c.Also called civil day. a division of time equal to 24 hours but reckoned from one midnight to the next. Compare lunar day, sidereal day. 4.an analogous division of time for a planet other than the earth: the Martian day. 5.the portion of a day allotted to work: an eight-hour day. 6.a day on which something occurs: the day we met. 7.(often initial capital letter

) a day assigned to a particular purpose or observance: New Year's Day. 8.a time considered as propitious or opportune: His day will come. 9.a day of contest or the contest itself: to win the day. 10.Often, days. a particular time or period: the present day; in days of old. 11.Usually, days. period of life or activity: His days are numbered. 12.period of existence, power, or influence: in the day of the dinosaurs. 13.light1 (def. 19a). —Idioms 14.call it a day, to stop one's activity for the day or for the present; quit temporarily: After rewriting the paper, she decided to call it a day. 15.day in, day out, every day without fail; regularly: They endured the noise and dirt of the city day in, day out. Also, day in and day out.

Now as to the scriptures we continue to find that "day" does not always mean a 24 hour space of time.

Let's go to Genesis

Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Here we see that the light was Day and the darkness was Night. The Hebrew words for evening and morning are better translated:

Evening = Dusk or sunset
Morning = Dawn or sunrise

The Hebrew words from the Strongs Dictionary of Hebrew and Greek Words are:

Evening =
H6153
ערב
‛ereb
eh'-reb
From H6150; dusk

Morning =
H1242
בּקר
bôqer
bo'-ker
From H1239; properly dawn (as the break of day); generally morning

Day =
H3117
יום
yôm
yome
From an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literally (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverbially)

For the sake of brievity I add one more bit of information given to us by Peter in his epistle (letter).

2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

So you see the Lord does not always define "day" as merely a 24 hour period.

 

[Skaloop]

Not knowng where you got the assumption that "day" was only allowed to be interpreted as a 24 hour day, I would like to elucidate a little on the word.

I'll begin with a simple definition and as far as I know it has nothing to do with creationism.

day

/deɪ/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[dey]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1.the interval of light between two successive nights; the time between sunrise and sunset: Since there was no artificial illumination, all activities had to be carried on during the day. 2.the light of day; daylight: The owl sleeps by day and feeds by night. 3.Astronomy. a.Also called mean solar day. a division of time equal to 24 hours and representing the average length of the period during which the earth makes one rotation on its axis. b.Also called solar day. a division of time equal to the time elapsed between two consecutive returns of the same terrestrial meridian to the sun. c.Also called civil day. a division of time equal to 24 hours but reckoned from one midnight to the next. Compare lunar day, sidereal day. 4.an analogous division of time for a planet other than the earth: the Martian day. 5.the portion of a day allotted to work: an eight-hour day. 6.a day on which something occurs: the day we met. 7.(often initial capital letter

) a day assigned to a particular purpose or observance: New Year's Day. 8.a time considered as propitious or opportune: His day will come. 9.a day of contest or the contest itself: to win the day. 10.Often, days. a particular time or period: the present day; in days of old. 11.Usually, days. period of life or activity: His days are numbered. 12.period of existence, power, or influence: in the day of the dinosaurs. 13.light1 (def. 19a). —Idioms 14.call it a day, to stop one's activity for the day or for the present; quit temporarily: After rewriting the paper, she decided to call it a day. 15.day in, day out, every day without fail; regularly: They endured the noise and dirt of the city day in, day out. Also, day in and day out.

Now as to the scriptures we continue to find that "day" does not always mean a 24 hour space of time.

Let's go to Genesis

Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Here we see that the light was Day and the darkness was Night. The Hebrew words for evening and morning are better translated:

Evening = Dusk or sunset
Morning = Dawn or sunrise

The Hebrew words from the Strongs Dictionary of Hebrew and Greek Words are:

Evening =
H6153
ערב
‛ereb
eh'-reb
From H6150; dusk

Morning =
H1242
בּקר
bôqer
bo'-ker
From H1239; properly dawn (as the break of day); generally morning

Day =
H3117
יום
yôm
yome
From an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literally (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverbially)

For the sake of brievity I add one more bit of information given to us by Peter in his epistle (letter).

2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

So you see the Lord does not always define "day" as merely a 24 hour period.

You're right, "day" can be interpreted to mean something other than a 24-hour period. However, that would not be a literal interpretation.

 

[Inan3]

Just a couple:

I think I remember the one with Dawkins but what are the lies in the other one?

 

[Inan3]

You're right, "day" can be interpreted to mean something other than a 24-hour period. However, that would not be a literal interpretation.

Sure it would but you have to take the whole context to correctly interpret. Literal translation does not mean you have to take it for "one" definition. You have to find the truth throughout the scriptures and then you will have a literal translation.

Literal
–adjective 1.in accordance with, involving, or being the primary or strict meaning of the word or words; not figurative or metaphorical: the literal meaning of a word. 2.following the words of the original very closely and exactly: a literal translation of Goethe. 3.true to fact; not exaggerated; actual or factual: a literal description of conditions. 4.being actually such, without exaggeration or inaccuracy: the literal extermination of a city. 5.(of persons) tending to construe words in the strict sense or in an unimaginative way; matter-of-fact; prosaic. 6.of or pertaining to the letters of the alphabet. 7.of the nature of letters. 8.expressed by letters. 9.affecting a letter or letters: a literal error.


I think the biggest problem that people have is that they do not understand the scriptures or the teaching of the scriptures and when they hear someone try to explain them they attach their own predetermined interpretation or their own definitions which in truth are not complete or correct when it comes to understanding the meaning of the scriptures. I'm sure you can understand that because it is not unlike science with it's own use of partiular words which at times are totally opposite of what the main stream use of the word is. I have made that mistake with science and have been corrected here on the forums.

 

[Inan3]

But they allegedly lived for hundreds of years after being kicked out of Eden. Clearly they were not literally dead.

If you want to suggest that they were spiritually dead or something, fine, but that's metaphorical, not literal.

Once again it goes to definition. Death in the Bible sense is actually looked at as a separation rather than a cessation.

The soul and spirit become separated from the body.

Spiritual death is a separation from life or God.

Death is a place of the dead.

In Adam's case when he partook of the forbidden fruit he died spiritually and death entered into his physical being.

All death really is...is the LOSS of LIFE. God's primary objective in redemption is to restore LIFE to man. Most people think His goal is AGAINST sin but the only reason He is against sin is to restore us to LIFE.