How do churches get around this verse?

[AzA]

So how can we make them change?

It fascinates me how often these discussions terminate here.

 

[JonMiller]

Humanity seems to be inclined to being hypocritical.

JM

 

[k4c]

Humanity seems to be inclined to being hypocritical.

JM

Genesis 2:19 Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name.

Strong's Ref. # 120

Romanized 'adam

Pronounced aw-dawm'

from HSN0119; ruddy i.e. a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.):

KJV--X another, + hypocrite, + common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

I think the SDA church is just fine in discouraging the use of alcohol.

The SDA denomination does far more than discourage the use of alcohol. It prohibits the use of alcohol. My question is who gave the SDA denomination the authority to do so?

If we agree that this is a problem, what can be done about it?

BFA

 

[sentipente]

The SDA denomination does far more than discourage the use of alcohol. It prohibits the use of alcohol. My question is who gave the SDA denomination the authority to do so?

If we agree that this is a problem, what can be done about it?

BFA

Any group has complete authority to manage the lives of those who choose to be members of that group.

 

[Doveaman]

Any group has complete authority to manage the lives of those who choose to be members of that group.

I suppose.

But unscriptural prohibitions in any religious group can sometimes lead to David Koresh type groups.

 

[k4c]

Where would you even start and who would you even talk to about it?

I was a very active member of the SDA at one point until I began to realize that their position on things such as jewelry, wine, dance, theater and so on was more than just a becareful and moderation teaching, but rather, a salvation issue with partaking of any of it at any level.

I attempted to bring these issues to the leaders of my church but it only got heated. This is when I began to realize that I couldn't bring new believers into the SDA for fear of unneccessary guilt and condemnation being brought on them. These things destroy relationships within families and friends and with God Himself because a real or preceived sin will have the same hardening effect on a heart even if it's unscriptual.

If the SDA church would repent of their man made doctrines I would return in a heart beat because they do have a lot of good teachings and an awesome health message if they don't make it a salvation issue.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Any group has complete authority to manage the lives of those who choose to be members of that group.

If you consider my post more carefully, you will notice that I asked WHO gave the SDA denomination that authority. Your post doesn't speak to the WHO.

BFA

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Where would you even start and who would you even talk to about it?

I was a very active member of the SDA at one point until I began to realize that their position on things such as jewelry, wine, dance, theater and so on was more than just a becareful and moderation teaching, but rather, a salvation issue with partaking of any of it at any level.

I attempted to bring these issues to the leaders of my church but it only got heated. This is when I began to realize that I couldn't bring new believers into the SDA for fear of unneccessary guilt and condemnation being brought on them. These things destroy relationships within families and friends and with God Himself because a real or preceived sin will have the same hardening effect on a heart even if it's unscriptual.

If the SDA church would repent of their man made doctrines I would return in a heart beat because they do have a lot of good teachings and an awesome health message if they don't make it a salvation issue.

K4C,

Are any of the following teachings "man-made?"

1. The investigative judgment
2. 1844 and the cleansing of the sanctuary
3. The close of probation
4. Sunday as the mark of the beast
5. Saturday as the seal of God
6. Man takes his earthly character to Heaven
7. It is left with us to cleanse our soul temples
8. The unique teachings of "God's remnant"

Are these teachings to which you would like to return?

BFA

 

[k4c]

K4C,


Are any of the following teachings "man-made?"

1. The investigative judgment
2. 1844 and the cleansing of the sanctuary
3. The close of probation
4. Sunday as the mark of the beast
5. Saturday as the seal of God
6. Man takes his earthly character to Heaven
7. It is left with us to cleanse our soul temples
8. The unique teachings of "God's remnant"

Are these teachings to which you would like to return?

BFA

Every doctrine in every church is man made, from the Trinity to the state of the dead. In other words, they are all interpreations of Scripture.

What we're suppose to do, as Christians, is test doctrines with the word of God and if they fit then receive them.

Acts 17:11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily, to see whether these things were so.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

What we're suppose to do, as Christians, is test doctrines with the word of God and if they fit then receive them.

Do any of the 8 that I listed "fit?"

BFA

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

This is when I began to realize that I couldn't bring new believers into the SDA for fear of unneccessary guilt and condemnation being brought on them. These things destroy relationships within families and friends and with God Himself because a real or preceived sin will have the same hardening effect on a heart even if it's unscriptual.

How do you manage to stay in fellowship with a church that you could never recommend to anybody else?

 

[tall73]

There are some people within the SDA that won't even eat a pickle because of the vinigar.

They don't want to become a stone-cold vinegar addict like Ellen White.



I had indulged the desire for vinegar. But I resolved with the help of God to overcome this appetite. I fought the temptation, determined not to be mastered by this habit. For weeks I was very sick; but I kept saying over and over, The Lord knows all about it. If I die, I die; but I will not yield to this desire. The struggle continued, and I was sorely afflicted for many weeks. All thought that it was impossible for me to live. You may be sure we sought the Lord very earnestly. The most fervent prayers were offered for my recovery. I continued to resist the desire for vinegar, and at last I conquered. Now I have no inclination to taste anything of the kind. This experience has been of great value to me in many ways. I obtained a complete victory. {CD 485.2} Ellen White, Counsels on Diet and Foods.

 

[k4c]

Do any of the 8 that I listed "fit?"

BFA

Hi BFA

1. The investigative judgment
2. 1844 and the cleansing of the sanctuary
3. The close of probation
4. Sunday as the mark of the beast
5. Saturday as the seal of God
6. Man takes his earthly character to Heaven
7. It is left with us to cleanse our soul temples
8. The unique teachings of "God's remnant"

The investigative judgment - There is Bible support for an evaluation of our lives now. What you want to call it is a personal preference.

1844 and the cleansing of the sanctuary - I believe this one needs more work.

The close of probation - I believe there is a individual application of this and a universal application. There will come a time in individual lives when God turns us over to ourselves. There is also a time when God universally says it's time. If God did not cut things short in the end no flesh would be saved.

Sunday as the mark of the beast - The mark of the beast includes Sunday worship but I believe it also includes other things as well.

Saturday as the seal of God - The seal of God includes keeping His commandments, which includes the Sabbath but it's not the end all. There are people keeping the Sabbath right now that are far away from having the seal of God. The seal of God includes having a certain character, as well as, keeping the commandments.

Man takes his earthly character to Heaven - This one is new to me so I don't know too much about it but what I can say is that if our character is not like Christ's we will go no where.

It is left with us to cleanse our soul temples - The cleaning of our lives comes from the washing of the word. This takes and effort on our part of reading the word and applying it.

The unique teachings of "God's remnant" - I believe the unique theaching is what we see in mainline churches today, which is Sunday keeping, going to heaven or a burning hell at death, God's people inheriting heaven and so on. These are unique teachings, I say they are unique because they are not founded on the teachings of the Bible. God's church will keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus, which is not unique at all, but rather, histroical.

 

[k4c]

How do you manage to stay in fellowship with a church that you could never recommend to anybody else?

I don't attend the SDA any longer. I still have many brothers and sisters in Christ within the SDA who I love but I can't attend service or bring anyone in to the SDA because of all the things I've been sharring here. I can tell you that I wish I could attend because they do have a lot of good Bible insight, which I still teach, and an awesome health program but there is just too much baggage.

 

[k4c]

They don't want to become a stone-cold vinegar addict like Ellen White.

I had indulged the desire for vinegar. But I resolved with the help of God to overcome this appetite. I fought the temptation, determined not to be mastered by this habit. For weeks I was very sick; but I kept saying over and over, The Lord knows all about it. If I die, I die; but I will not yield to this desire. The struggle continued, and I was sorely afflicted for many weeks. All thought that it was impossible for me to live. You may be sure we sought the Lord very earnestly. The most fervent prayers were offered for my recovery. I continued to resist the desire for vinegar, and at last I conquered. Now I have no inclination to taste anything of the kind. This experience has been of great value to me in many ways. I obtained a complete victory. {CD 485.2} Ellen White, Counsels on Diet and Foods.

I was pulled over the other day at AUC for having a six pack of pickles in my car. I beat the breathalyzer because I took some charcoal before the test so my case got thrown out of court. Charcoal works wonders for many things...

 

[Byfaithalone1]

I was pulled over the other day at AUC for having a six pack of pickles in my car. I beat the breathalyzer because I took some charcoal before the test so my case got thrown out of court. Charcoal works wonders for many things...

Hahaha! Now THAT was funny!

 

[Richard Lewis]

I am still attending the SDA church but I have to agree with this post. Even further proof that Jesus did not oppose drinking wine is the wedding at Cannan where He turned water in to wine. His first recorded miracle. the bible says that He did this after the guest had already to much to drink! What to much grape juice ? I don't think so. Again Jesus said do not put new wine in to and old sheep skin or it will burst. The only thing that would make it burst is the fermenting process. I don't drink at all but not because I think it is a sin but because I used to drink to much. God Bless you all.

 

[BigRedBus]

Mainstream medical opinion does not insist on total abstinence from alcohol, for everyone, all the time. And neither does the Bible. I think the Church undermines its own credibility when it makes a stand on a health issue without being explicitly backed by either one of these, and/or the other.

A further risk to its credibility is when it makes an edict that is unenforceable. I could choose to consume alcoholic drinks and my local church officials would not know about it (and I would make sure they would never be able to know). And even if they did know, what could they sensibly do about it? Why bother having a rule if it cannot be enforced?

I suspect the Church’s position on abstinence is a historical anomaly, tied up with its own heritage. The temperance movement was very strong in the mid 19th century -- the same time as the Church was forming. The ideals of the temperance movement thus became mixed with the philosophy of the Church. They became embedded in the philosophy and have stayed bound up with it long after the rest of society has moved on.

 

[JonMiller]

The ideal of temperance is a good ideal.

The church encouraging people to abstain from alcohol, like they do for people to abstain from meat, would be laudable.

It is calling drinking of any alcohol, whatsoever, a sin, which is wrong.

JM
(I say this as one who has the occasional drink, and in the past has engaged in unhealthy drinking.)