How Did I Come to My Conclusions About Homosexuality?

[Outspoken]

So something has to be SPECIFICALLY addressed in order not to be considered a sin or wrong? Besides, just like heterosexual sex in the confines of marriage was not mentioned in that passage, neither was homosexual sex in the confines of marriage.

When it has earlier been identifed as sin, yes.

"homosexual sex in the confines of marriage"
This is not biblical. The bible is very clear that marriage is between a man and a woman, but that is an issue for another time. Please provide evidience of the bible saying specifically homosexuality is not a sin, else it is as shown in romans 1.

 

[chalice_thunder]

While you all are arguing about whether Paul says this or that, my partner and I, and millions of other gay couples are living faithful, Christ-centered lives. Millions of gay singles are as well.

None of us can close the door to God's Kingdom which He has opened to us all...no matter HOW many scriptures we quote on either side of the issue.

Maybe it's time to give up the arguing that keeps going nowhere.

It's plain that we aren't going to change one another's minds and hearts on this issue. It seems too deeply held for all of us.

Why don't we try meeting each other on some common ground, like God's love, (which we all, I HOPE, agree on!) rather than continuing in what seems to be a vicious cycle? Just a thought.

 

[Rocinante]

It may be that while the good people are loving the bigots, the bigots will be stomping them into the ground and creating a FundaGelical Theocracy.

Standing firmly against bigotry is the only option. There is no need for violent talk or action, but simply stating the facts clearly and unemotionally is essential.

It's hard work, but it must be done.....and progress, though slow, will come.

 

[Outspoken]

*sigh* you're the one that's stereotyping. The bible says homosexuality is sin. Its that simple. I give thanks to God that claice is trying to live a life worth of the calling of Christ. What I cannot condone to is something that is in his/her life which is sin.

"It seems too deeply held for all of us."

Then I would say there is something amiss in a christians walk when they say its okay to sin, though I would not question you being a christian. I will befriend you and treat you as I would any other sinner (as I am a sinner as well) but I will not condone your choice of sin.

That aside, I totally agree that God's love is common ground.

 

[Rocinante]

The bible says homosexuality is sin. Its that simple.

Roz sez:

Wrong. The Bible says SOME homosexual activities are sin. Amazingly enough, they are the same activities that are sin for heterosexuals.......rape, prostitution and promiscuity.

Will wonders never cease?

 

[chalice_thunder]

It may be that while the good people are loving the bigots, the bigots will be stomping them into the ground and creating a FundaGelical Theocracy.

Standing firmly against bigotry is the only option. There is no need for violent talk or action, but simply stating the facts clearly and unemotionally is essential.

It's hard work, but it must be done.....and progress, though slow, will come.

I agree...it's just so much bashing one's head against a brick wall, ya know?

 

[chalice_thunder]

*sigh* you're the one that's stereotyping. The bible says homosexuality is sin. Its that simple. I give thanks to God that claice is trying to live a life worth of the calling of Christ. What I cannot condone to is something that is in his/her life which is sin.

"It seems too deeply held for all of us."

Then I would say there is something amiss in a christians walk when they say its okay to sin, though I would not question you being a christian. I will befriend you and treat you as I would any other sinner (as I am a sinner as well) but I will not condone your choice of sin.

That aside, I totally agree that God's love is common ground.

My life is not for anyone to condone/not condone. My walk is with God, who has called me deeply into Him.

You continue to hold, very tightly I think, to a certain interpretation of Scripture, which is not my interpretation. I only wish that you could grant me the same repsect as I grant you - that each of us can interpret the living word to the best of our abilities, and still come up with different answers. It IS possible, you know. All one needs to do is let go of fear a little, and realize that the word is alive, vibrant, and at work in us through the Holy Spirit.

 

[Outspoken]

Roz sez:

Wrong. The Bible says SOME homosexual activities are sin. Amazingly enough, they are the same activities that are sin for heterosexuals.......rape, prostitution and promiscuity.

Will wonders never cease?

Nooooooo...the bible says homosexuality is sin. Period. I'd love to see you produce scripture that says homosexuality is okay though. I'll be waiting.

 

[chalice_thunder]

Nooooooo...the bible says homosexuality is sin. Period. .

Actually, it does not say that.

 

[Outspoken]

My life is not for anyone to condone/not condone. My walk is with God, who has called me deeply into Him.

You continue to hold, very tightly I think, to a certain interpretation of Scripture, which is not my interpretation. I only wish that you could grant me the same repsect as I grant you - that each of us can interpret the living word to the best of our abilities, and still come up with different answers. It IS possible, you know. All one needs to do is let go of fear a little, and realize that the word is alive, vibrant, and at work in us through the Holy Spirit.

That's the problem. Each verse of scripture says one specific thing, though thost things have different applications to different people. the bible says very specifically that homosexuality is sin. Now that might mean something different to you (more of a struggle or less of one) then to me. I agree, your walk is with God alone, but much like that man sleeping with his mother that Paul addresses, it simply is not right.

 

[Outspoken]

Actually, it does not say that.

Sure it does, read romans 1.

 

[chalice_thunder]

That's the problem. Each verse of scripture says one specific thing, though thost things have different applications to different people. the bible says very specifically that homosexuality is sin. Now that might mean something different to you (more of a struggle or less of one) then to me. I agree, your walk is with God alone, but much like that man sleeping with his mother that Paul addresses, it simply is not right.

Again, you may interpret the Scriptures any way you would like to. I try to read them in context. They are not just words on a page - they were written for specific reasons. There is NOT ONE passage in the entire Bible that speaks to faithful gay coupling...it's just not there.

 

[Outspoken]

Again, you may interpret the Scriptures any way you would like to. I try to read them in context. They are not just words on a page - they were written for specific reasons. There is NOT ONE passage in the entire Bible that speaks to faithful gay coupling...it's just not there.

I don't see your point. Homosexuality, in any form, is sin. the bible cleary calls it sin. It doesn't matter if you invent a new way to sin, its still sin. Its not interpeation, its what is clearly says. If I say the sky is blue, you can't look at me and tell me I said the sky is orange.

 

[Perceivence]

Much of the mysterious shroud about the confusion on whether homosexuality is a sin or not seems to disappear when one realises that one group believes the flood is real, the other that it's a myth. One group believes The Fall is real, the other that it's a myth. One group believes the parting of the Red Sea (Sea of Reeds) was real, the other a myth. One group believes the Virgin Birth, the other doesn't. One group holds Paul in high regard, the other doesn't. One group believes that Jesus physically died, was resurrected and ascended to heaven; the other is inclined not to.

Though it doesn't appear to be a matter of salvation, it does strike me as being a matter of faith.

(Yes, I generalised.)

 

[chalice_thunder]

I don't see your point. Homosexuality, in any form, is sin. the bible cleary calls it sin. It doesn't matter if you invent a new way to sin, its still sin. Its not interpeation, its what is clearly says. If I say the sky is blue, you can't look at me and tell me I said the sky is orange.

We are not talking about the sky here, and I bet you already know that. There was no context for faithful gay relationships back then...the only thing that was being referenced was cult worship that involved temple prostitutes.

If you want to keep thinking that it's a clear as you say it is, go right ahead. It won't change the fact that God brought me into a faithful relationship with a man 19 years ago, God blessed it, called it good, and continues to bless our lives.

 

[chalice_thunder]

Much of the mysterious shroud about the confusion on whether homosexuality is a sin or not seems to disappear when one realises that one group believes the flood is real, the other that it's a myth. One group believes The Fall is real, the other that it's a myth. One group believes the parting of the Red Sea (Sea of Reeds) was real, the other a myth. One group believes the Virgin Birth, the other doesn't. One group holds Paul in high regard, the other doesn't. One group believes that Jesus physically died, was resurrected and ascended to heaven; the other is inclined not to.

Though it doesn't appear to be a matter of salvation, it does strike me as being a matter of faith.

(Yes, I generalised.)

Except that you fail to understand the word 'myth.' Myth does not mean 'untruth.' Myth leads us deeper into truth. Whether some of the stories actually happened or not is not as important as the truth behind the stories. i.e. God delivered Israel. Did they walk through the Red Sea. Well, it's a great story, plenty of drama, and gets the point across. Is it a fact that it happened? Who cares!? The truth of the matter is God DID deliver Israel.

 

[Outspoken]

We are not talking about the sky here, and I bet you already know that. There was no context for faithful gay relationships back then...the only thing that was being referenced was cult worship that involved temple prostitutes.

If you want to keep thinking that it's a clear as you say it is, go right ahead. It won't change the fact that God brought me into a faithful relationship with a man 19 years ago, God blessed it, called it good, and continues to bless our lives.

It doesn't matter if there were gay relationships or not, homosexuality is still wrong.

"the only thing that was being referenced was cult worship that involved temple prostitutes."

No, it was pretty clear that it was homosexuality, period. That is unless you think its okay to murder, be malicious, or do all types of evil outside of cult worship as well.

"a man 19 years ago, God blessed it, called it good, and continues to bless our lives"

No, God does not bless homosexuality.

 

[Outspoken]

Except that you fail to understand the word 'myth.' Myth does not mean 'untruth.' Myth leads us deeper into truth. Whether some of the stories actually happened or not is not as important as the truth behind the stories. i.e. God delivered Israel. Did they walk through the Red Sea. Well, it's a great story, plenty of drama, and gets the point across. Is it a fact that it happened? Who cares!? The truth of the matter is God DID deliver Israel.

Oy vey, you've got to be joking. To deny scripture is to deny truth. If you want to go the non-literal route you would be forced to say Christ is a non-literal person, ie a myth. You can't have your cake and eat it too, sorry.

 

[chalice_thunder]

It doesn't matter if there were gay relationships or not, homosexuality is still wrong.

"the only thing that was being referenced was cult worship that involved temple prostitutes."

No, it was pretty clear that it was homosexuality, period. That is unless you think its okay to murder, be malicious, or do all types of evil outside of cult worship as well.

"a man 19 years ago, God blessed it, called it good, and continues to bless our lives"

No, God does not bless homosexuality.

Disengaging from you now - you will not hear the truth, and that is ok.

 

[Perceivence]

Except that you fail to understand the word 'myth.' Myth does not mean 'untruth.' Myth leads us deeper into truth. Whether some of the stories actually happened or not is not as important as the truth behind the stories. i.e. God delivered Israel. Did they walk through the Red Sea. Well, it's a great story, plenty of drama, and gets the point across. Is it a fact that it happened? Who cares!? The truth of the matter is God DID deliver Israel.

I understand the word 'myth' very, very well, Chalice. As you said, a myth is a fictional story - a made up event, something that did not happen - that is told with 'greater meaning' that does not require the story to be true. So it doesn't matter that it didn't happen, the lesson that we can learn from the story remains the same.

Of course, there's the whole issue of if the story is true it will contain all the meaning that it would if it were a myth plus someadditional meaning and strength that comes only with it being real. But I don't wanna get into that right now.

Anyway, what I was getting at remains. One group doesn't believes that the stories are real, the other that they are.