How Dead Is Latin, Really?

[Michie]

From an early date, the Church in the West has used Latin—not only for administration, study, and communication, but for prayer. This was natural for regions where Latin was the majority language, but as the centuries passed, the Western Church persisted with a Latin liturgy in evangelizing peoples on and beyond the edges of the Roman Empire not conversant with it, such as the North African speakers of Punic and the speakers of Celtic and Germanic languages in western and central Europe. By contrast, the Eastern Churches sometimes made use of the languages of their new converts, even when these had to be specially developed in their written forms for this to be possible, as with Ethiopia’s Ge’ez and Russia’s Church Slavonic.

There is thus a close association between the Western Church and the Latin language. Even today, when the liturgy can be celebrated in a huge range of languages, this relationship has left its mark, and Latin remains an option for both public and private prayer—not only in celebrations of the pre-Vatican II liturgy, but also for the reformed Mass.

Continued below.

How Dead Is Latin, Really?

Latin is often characterized as a ‘dead language.’ But it is still the language of the Church, with real-life applications even today.

www.catholic.com

 

[Bob Crowley]

I, er, recently started a U3A course in Latin. It remains to be seen how far I get with it.

I was surprised to hear some of the introductory comments by the tutor - one interesting tid-bit was that the British "Grammar" schools used to have their entire classes in Latin. The students had to speak Latin in class.

Incidentally I'm not interested in the Latin mass. Novus Ordo if fine by me. I just hope I might be able to read the occasional church text in Latin.

I did pick up a Latin textbook (not the one we'll be using) from a (basically) Protestant bookshop called Koorong. I was surprised to see the book there.

Unlike most Latin textbooks it specialises in Christian passages as the author remarked "In contrast to the Latin of Cicero Caesar, Virgil, and other classical authors, 'approximately 80 percent' of Latin comes from Christian authors, few of whom receive as much attention in the traditional Latin curriculum. ...... For every Cicero, Caesar, and Virgil, there are a thousand Jeromes, a thousand Thomases, and thousand Luthers. What's more these last three Christians uniquely influenced the Western World - particularly when we consider their theological and spiritual influence. Either way, no one would ever describe them as amateurs."

When Luther pinned his 95 theses on the church door at Wittenburg, they were written in Latin as his primary audience at the time was the educated church elite. He may have translated the Bible into German but he knew Latin as that would have been the lingua fraca of educated Western Europe at that time.

 

[Bob Crowley]

As a postscript to my post above, the term "Grammar School" owes its origins to the fact they were set up to teach "Latin Grammar" as the foundation of the medieval education system.

Grammar school - New World Encyclopedia

www.newworldencyclopedia.org

In medieval times, the importance of Latin in government and religion meant there was a strong demand to learn the language. Schools were set up to teach the basis of Latin grammar, calling themselves "grammar schools." Pupils were usually educated up to the age of 14, after which they would look to universities and the church for further study.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

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[jas3]

I took several years of Latin in school and really appreciate its use in the Latin Mass and the writings of the western Church Fathers. It's a shame that the academic world has all but abandoned Latin and Classical Greek education.

 

[RileyG]

Apparently Latin and Classical Greek teach us about the meaning of words in the English language.

(Yes, I'm aware that English is a Germanic language, but the meaning words are heavily influenced by other languages).

 

[chevyontheriver]

I took several years of Latin in school and really appreciate its use in the Latin Mass and the writings of the western Church Fathers. It's a shame that the academic world has all but abandoned Latin and Classical Greek education.

It’s a shame the Catholic Church is intentionally forgetting its common language. We are getting more incomprehensible to each other.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

I have been enjoying going back in time.

Index by Date of Composition

 

[RileyG]

It’s a shame the Catholic Church is intentionally forgetting its common language. We are getting more incomprehensible to each other.

Absolutely! Which is why I think the pre-vatican II liturgies must be preserved. (not looking for arguments or fights here)

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

It’s a shame the Catholic Church is intentionally forgetting its common language. We are getting more incomprehensible to each other.

Common language? Very few people actually understand it.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Common language? Very few people actually understand it.

Now, of course most bishops can’t understand it. But it was commonly taught in all sorts of schools 75 years ago. The bishops at Vatican II could converse in it. People from all over the world could converse in it. Not everybody or the majority of people but the well educated. Now it’s probably truely dead in that not even the Catholic Church gives a rip.

 

[Bob Crowley]

I'm doing a Latin course at U3A (bunch of older people) but my main interest is so that I might be able to read a few church documents down the track.

I'm not interested in the Latin mass. As far as I'm concerned I've got my work cut out trying be a Christian without getting hung up on which rite we use. It's past history as far as I'm concerned.

It also suits me that English is the current lingua fraca since it's my native tongue, spread in the first instance by the British Empire and later by American cultural dominance of the West in the age of television and now the internet.

Of course that could change - in 100 years our descendants might be speaking Chinese if they dominate the world economy or Arabic if Islam overtakes Christianity as the main religion. They certainly won't care about Latin which had no cultural significance in Asia, Africa, Eastern Europe, Oceania or for that matter the North American continent - most of the world's land mass.

The church still uses it for official documents, and probably will continue to do so partly because it's a "dead language". If they decided to use English (which of course most documents are translated into anyway), they could well upset some of the other strong language groups. I believe the French still have a bit of a gripe about non-French speakers in France, although that might be outdated.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I'm doing a Latin course at U3A (bunch of older people) but my main interest is so that I might be able to read a few church documents down the track.

I'm not interested in the Latin mass. As far as I'm concerned I've got my work cut out trying be a Christian without getting hung up on which rite we use. It's past history as far as I'm concerned.

It also suits me that English is the current lingua fraca since it's my native tongue, spread in the first instance by the British Empire and later by American cultural dominance of the West in the age of television and now the internet.

Of course that could change - in 100 years our descendants might be speaking Chinese if they dominate the world economy or Arabic if Islam overtakes Christianity as the main religion. They certainly won't care about Latin which had no cultural significance in Asia, Africa, Eastern Europe, Oceania or for that matter the North American continent - most of the world's land mass.

The church still uses it for official documents, and probably will continue to do so partly because it's a "dead language". If they decided to use English (which of course most documents are translated into anyway), they could well upset some of the other strong language groups. I believe the French still have a bit of a gripe about non-French speakers in France, although that might be outdated.

If anyone asked me today which languages to study I would say Arabic and Chinese and Russian and Spanish. Maybe Urdu. Not even bother with the German and French my high school offered. I am happy to have had Latin, but if the Catholic Church has written it off, well, it’s dead. Klingon is more relevant. I think that’s a mistake, to kill off Latin, but it’s a mistake already made. We have to smother it to put to death the TLM.

The dirty little secret is that Latin is not as dead as all that, and there is a bump in people studying it so as to better participate in the TLM. So not quite dead.

 

[jas3]

I am happy to have had Latin, but if the Catholic Church has written it off, well, it’s dead. Klingon is more relevant. I think that’s a mistake, to kill off Latin, but it’s a mistake already made. We have to smother it to put to death the TLM.

If nothing else, it will always be relevant and to some extent necessary for anyone who wants to understand the western Church fathers and doctors of the Church. There are still documents that haven't been translated, and even in those that have been translated, there is always something lost that can only be conveyed by reading the text in the original language. But yes, the push to put everything into the vernacular and abandon the liturgical language of the West seems to be driven by the same animus that acts against the TLM and traditional theology in general.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Funny, I get a lot out of ancient Latin prayers and Psalms in Latin but I have no desire for TLM.

IN nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen.

SANCTUS, Sanctus, Sanctus, Dominus Deus Sabaoth.
Pleni sunt caeli et terra gloria tua.
Hosanna in excelsis.
Benedictus qui venit in nomine Domini.
Hosanna in excelsis.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Even if one does not know Latin this is not too difficult to guess.
I remember that I had to memorize it to be an altar boy back in 1965.

CONFITEOR Deo omnipotenti,
beatae Mariae semper Virgini,
beato Michaeli Archangelo,
beato Ioanni Baptistae,
sanctis Apostolis Petro et Paulo,
et omnibus Sanctis,

quia peccavi nimis cogitatione, verbo et opere:
mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

Ideo precor beatam Mariam semper Virginem,
beatum Michaelem Archangelum,
beatum Ioannem Baptistam,
sanctos Apostolos Petrum et Paulum,
et omnes Sanctos,
orare pro me ad Dominum Deum nostrum.
Amen.

Latin is not dead. It lives on in many other languages.

And it is not like we need to be able to sit down and read Aquinas or a church document without help. As with Koine Greek, all we really need to do is be able to recognize a word, pronounce it and do a word study.

As I said in an earlier post, Latin is a passport to the ancient past. I enjoy the trip sometimes and feel closer to our ancestors in faith....the Communion of Saints. Communio Sactorum