How could you tell?

Elioenai26 · Jul 18, 2013

Non sequitur said:
Whatever that led you to believe he cannot lie, how could you know if that belief is false?

I could know that my belief is false if someone falsified it.

For example:

The Resurrection of Christ.....simply produce His body and voila, resurrection falsified and Christianity is reduced to nothing.

The Bible....simply produce some archaeological evidence or historical evidence that undoubtedly contradicts the Bible, and voila, no more God Inspired Bible.

The beginning of the heavens and the earth.....simply produce evidence that proves the universe did not begin to exist and bang! You have falsified Genesis 1:1

I could go on and on and on and on and on....

HitchSlap · Jul 18, 2013

Elioenai26 said:
I could know that my belief is false if someone falsified it.

For example:

The Resurrection of Christ.....simply produce His body and voila, resurrection falsified and Christianity is reduced to nothing.

The Bible....simply produce some archaeological evidence or historical evidence that undoubtedly contradicts the Bible, and voila, no more God Inspired Bible.

The beginning of the heavens and the earth.....simply produce evidence that proves the universe did not begin to exist and bang! You have falsified Genesis 1:1

I could go on and on and on and on and on....

Was baby Jesus born during Herod the Great's reign (d. 4BCE) or during the census of Cyrenius (6/7 CE)?

Non sequitur · Jul 18, 2013

Elioenai26 said:
I could know that my belief is false if someone falsified it.

For example:

The Resurrection of Christ.....simply produce His body and voila, resurrection falsified and Christianity is reduced to nothing.

The Bible....simply produce some archaeological evidence or historical evidence that undoubtedly contradicts the Bible, and voila, no more God Inspired Bible.

The beginning of the heavens and the earth.....simply produce evidence that proves the universe did not begin to exist and bang! You have falsified Genesis 1:1

I could go on and on and on and on and on....

I'm talking about the information you used to formulate your beliefs, not the beliefs after-the-fact.

You have to be aware of something before you can have a belief (or non belief) about it.

How could you know if they aren't lies?

Skavau · Jul 18, 2013

This thread is hilarious.

Apologists just don't do analogies or hypotheticals.

Elioenai26 · Jul 18, 2013

HitchSlap said:
Was baby Jesus born during Herod the Great's reign (d. 4BCE) or during the census of Cyrenius (6/7 CE)?

What does the Bible say?

HitchSlap · Jul 18, 2013

Skavau said:
This thread is hilarious.

Apologists just don't do analogies or hypotheticals.

Professional apologists (think WL Craig / $ye Tin Bruggecnate) get them all whipped into a frenzy, then when they try to pull their shenanigans on the real world, they seem to be confused a little.

HitchSlap · Jul 18, 2013

Elioenai26 said:
What does the Bible say?

Mark doesn't say. Matthew says Herod. Luke says Cyrenius.

HitchSlap · Jul 18, 2013

Was Jesus' first sermon on a mount, or a plain?

Elioenai26 · Jul 18, 2013

HitchSlap said:
Mark doesn't say. Matthew says Herod. Luke says Cyrenius.

Read all of the pertinent passages in 27th Edition of the Nestle-Aland Novum Testamentum Graece and research all of the possible connotations and usages of the words:

1. ἡγεμονεύω

and...

2. πρῶτος

And then tell me what you think.

keith99 · Jul 18, 2013

Elioenai26 said:
I could know that my belief is false if someone falsified it.

For example:

The Resurrection of Christ.....simply produce His body and voila, resurrection falsified and Christianity is reduced to nothing.

The Bible....simply produce some archaeological evidence or historical evidence that undoubtedly contradicts the Bible, and voila, no more God Inspired Bible.

The beginning of the heavens and the earth.....simply produce evidence that proves the universe did not begin to exist and bang! You have falsified Genesis 1:1

I could go on and on and on and on and on....

You mean something like evidence the world is more than 6000 years old?

HitchSlap · Jul 18, 2013

Elioenai26 said:
Read all of the pertinent passages in 27th Edition of the Nestle-Aland Novum Testamentum Graece and research all of the possible connotations and usages of the words:

1. ἡγεμονεύω

and...

2. πρῶτος

And then tell me what you think.

Jesus didn't speak Greek, and neither do I?

So which is it? 4 BCE, or 6/7 CE?

Elioenai26 · Jul 18, 2013

keith99 said:
You mean something like evidence the world is more than 6000 years old?

Evidence that the world is more than 6000 years old (which is in abundance) would not falsify the Word of God because the Word of God never says the world is 6000 years old, nor does Genesis commit one to that interpretation.

Elioenai26 · Jul 18, 2013

HitchSlap said:
Jesus didn't speak Greek, and neither do I?

So which is it? 4 BCE, or 6/7 CE?

Jesus did not speak Greek?

How do you know this?

HitchSlap · Jul 18, 2013

Elioenai26 said:
Jesus did not speak Greek?

How do you know this?

He was a Jew living in Palestine two thousand years ago, and was likely illiterate, (estimated ten percent literacy). There's no evidence Jesus ever wrote anything or traveled to Greece.

HitchSlap · Jul 18, 2013

Elioenai26 said:
Evidence that the would is more than 6000 years old (which is in abundance) would not falsify the Word of God because the Word of God never says the world is 6000 years old, nor does Genesis commit one to that interpretation.

Modern man has been around for about two hundred thousand years, which would sufficiently extinguish any notions of Adam and Eve 6k years ago.

Elioenai26 · Jul 18, 2013

HitchSlap said:
He was a Jew living in Palestine two thousand years ago, and was likely illiterate, (estimated ten percent literacy). There's no evidence Jesus ever wrote anything or traveled to Greece.

HitchSlap · Jul 18, 2013

Elioenai26 said:

I have no idea what you're implying? Could you elaborate?

Elioenai26 · Jul 18, 2013

HitchSlap said:
I have no idea what you're implying? Could you elaborate?

You are funny.

But hey, I look on the bright side....

At least you do not deny He existed!

HitchSlap · Jul 18, 2013

Elioenai26 said:
You are funny.

But hey, I look on the bright side....

At least you do not deny He existed!

Are you suggesting he was from a royal or prosperous family (his dad worked construction) and had means to an education? Are you suggesting you have evidence he spoke or wrote Greek, or wrote anything at all, for that matter? Do you have evidence, other than the Bible, that he existed at all? Do you have any contemporary sources that mention Jesus?

If Jesus actually existed as a human being, and not an amalgamated myth based on previous mystery cults, you should be able to proffer just one shred of evidence.

jayem · Jul 18, 2013

Elioenai26 said:
God cannot lie. Beyond that, I have nothing else to say.

You're basing your question on the assumption that it is possible that He could lie.

But that is not possible.

Now, do you understand?

I understand that your argument boils down to faith. You have faith that God cannot lie. You have faith that God is the ultimate and universal standard of righteousness. And that's fine. But there is no way to demonstrate that objectively. Based on what we actually observe about how the world operates, it's more logical to conclude that if there an immanent Supreme Being, its true nature is evil.

How could you tell?

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