How can you discern between the natural and the supernatural?

[4x4toy]

Who knows?

Nobody.


So why not just admit that we don't know rather than calling it something "supernatural".

You don't know. I don't know. Leave it at that.

When your Faith becomes substance , You know that you know !!!

 

[True Scotsman]

How can you discern between the natural and supernatural? Once a supernatural thing occurs within our physical world, it is no longer beyond the laws of the physical world and would therefore be part of the natural world.

I know exactly how. Anything that is unexplained should be labeled as supernatural....until it is explained by natural processes. Just like lightning and volcanoes and diseases once were labeled supernatural.

 

[TillICollapse]

I know exactly how. Anything that is unexplained should be labeled as supernatural....until it is explained by natural processes. Just like lightning and volcanoes and diseases once were labeled supernatural.

So until we can find out and explain who murdered John Doe, the cause is supernatural ? Until we know what caused the crash of flight #123, it can be assumed to be from causes that lie above nature and not subject to physics ?

 

[bhsmte]

When your Faith becomes substance , You know that you know !!!

With some, they need to convince themselves they know, otherwise, their faith suffers.

 

[True Scotsman]

So until we can find out and explain who murdered John Doe, the cause is supernatural ? Until we know what caused the crash of flight #123, it can be assumed to be from causes that lie above nature and not subject to physics ?

You can't prove that the causes of those things are not supernatural. That is what the proponents of supernatural powers always say.

 

[TillICollapse]

You can't prove that the causes of those things are not supernatural. That is what the proponents of supernatural powers always say.

I don't think you can prove that ANYTHING that is unexplained has causes that are supernatural.

 

[Loudmouth]

You can't prove that the causes of those things are not supernatural. That is what the proponents of supernatural powers always say.

Many orthodox people speak as though it were the business of sceptics to disprove received dogmas rather than of dogmatists to prove them. This is, of course, a mistake. If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.--Bertrand Russell​

 

[TillICollapse]

Many orthodox people speak as though it were the business of sceptics to disprove received dogmas rather than of dogmatists to prove them. This is, of course, a mistake. If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.--Bertrand Russell​

Part of the classic triad.

 

[jacknife]

If you want to understand the image of word and light (John 1), the video I linked is the very best you could watch. Also, this one.

that's alright, thank you no more questions.

 

[True Scotsman]

I don't think you can prove that ANYTHING that is unexplained has causes that are supernatural.

Maybe you didn't realize that I was being facetious. The best way to defeat any fraud is to comply with it literally. Throughout history the supernatural world has existed where ignorance begins and has been pushed back continuously as science and reason learn more and more about the world. I think the whole concept of the supernatural is a rationalization to cover for a desire to blur the lines between the real and the imaginary. It is a rejection of the fact that A is A. After all the starting point of all mysticism is the belief that A is not A. So people imagine a realm that transcends the reality we live in where facts are what they are independent of anyone's wishes.

The question is silly. It's like asking how do you tell the difference between a tree and the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

 

[TillICollapse]

Maybe you didn't realize that I was being facetious.

No I didn't I thought you were being serious

The best way to defeat any fraud is to comply with it literally. Throughout history the supernatural world has existed where ignorance begins and has been pushed back continuously as science and reason learn more and more about the world. I think the whole concept of the supernatural is a rationalization to cover for a desire to blur the lines between the real and the imaginary. It is a rejection of the fact that A is A. After all the starting point of all mysticism is the belief that A is not A. So people imagine a realm that transcends the reality we live in where facts are what they are independent of anyone's wishes.

The question is silly. It's like asking how do you tell the difference between a tree and the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

The tree is what the box is made out of, the frosted marshmallow charms inside are the pot of gold. Did I get it right ?

 

[True Scotsman]

No I didn't I thought you were being serious

The tree is what the box is made out of, the frosted marshmallow charms inside are the pot of gold. Did I get it right ?

That's OK. I can see why you would think that I was serious because those are just the kinds of things that are taken seriously by so many people.

 

[Davian]

I don't think you can prove that ANYTHING that is unexplained has causes that are supernatural.

Flush toilets? Supernatural.

 

[TillICollapse]

That's OK. I can see why you would think that I was serious because those are just the kinds of things that are taken seriously by so many people.

Flush toilets? Supernatural.

Tide goes in, tide goes out.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Maybe you didn't realize that I was being facetious. The best way to defeat any fraud is to comply with it literally. Throughout history the supernatural world has existed where ignorance begins and has been pushed back continuously as science and reason learn more and more about the world. I think the whole concept of the supernatural is a rationalization to cover for a desire to blur the lines between the real and the imaginary. It is a rejection of the fact that A is A. After all the starting point of all mysticism is the belief that A is not A. So people imagine a realm that transcends the reality we live in where facts are what they are independent of anyone's wishes.

The question is silly. It's like asking how do you tell the difference between a tree and the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

If there is such a thing as a supernatural realm, there are many questions we should be asking about it. What is it made of? How does it interact with the natural world? What laws govern its interactions? Where did it come from it, if it had an origin? How do we acquire knowledge about it? In philosophy and science, these questions are of great interest to us as they relate to the natural world which we are trying to understand. But it seems that those who believe in the supernatural are mostly uninterested in these questions when asked about the supernatural.