Good/ thought provoking exploration too. I've enjoyed reading it.
Awesome
Glad you enjoyed it
Yes, especially if they are a rare occurrence. When they start happening left and right they are little harder to ignore however.
Yes ... they would be harder to ignore if they increased in frequency, etc and so forth. Of course the Occam's Razor explanation there is *expectation*. "I'm saw two eagles the other day, now I'm seeing eagles everywhere !" ... attributed to a person being alert and expecting to see them, etc and so forth. There may be something to them, there may not be.
Eventually it would beg the question ... *if* there is something to synchronicities and the like, how would one distinguish between a purposeful "sign", etc, from a coincidence ?
IMO, at a bare minimum, if one were to have a point of reference that had essentially been verified as having a "supernatural" element to it (although I'm not a fan of the term, obviously lol) to a compare events to, then that point of reference would give them a touchstone of sorts. With that point of reference, events wouldn't need to be extraordinary for such a person to recognize that element. They could conclude it's presence based on their method of detection.
More on this idea in a sec
...
The highlighted portion makes an important point imo. When one has a dream that merely appears to predict a single event it's rather easy to chalk it up to chance. When one has a dream that predicts multiple events in a very literal fashion it again becomes harder to ignore. I would talk about some of my dreams here specifically (as examples) but I think my priest / spiritual father would smack me if I did . I've always been told not to do things like that especially in public or online.
Aww ... I would have liked to hear some of them. I'm a fan of direct experience.
I'm in strong agreement with the first bolded statement above. The later bolded statement could be accurate as well imo. What reason would we have to call it "supernatural"? I'm not sure. It may simply be a natural human faculty that just isn't as well known as some of the others that we posses.
Indeed, a possibility.
No doubt. I've never seen a limb regrowing type thing before.
I haven't seen this yet either, although I have seen incredible things which are somewhat comparable. I've seen the weather commanded with a person speaking words before, instantly respond to the words, like a faucet turning off and on. I've seen translocation (a person in one place one moment, then in a completely different place the next). Etc etc.
That's possible. One could say that all we experience directly in relation to "outside" phenomena** is our own mind (nervous system etc..) or our own phaneron. Even "external" things could be chalked up to "it's just my mind playing tricks on me " too if one wanted to be very skeptical. I've certainly had audio, visual, tactile, even olfactory experiences in certain altered states that I assume were "not really there" in a physical sense at least. Some people use that fact to simply reject anything out of the ordinary that happens to people if it doesn't leave a lasting observable effect. "You [or 'you people'], must have been hallucinating!" But, yes, the more dramatic outer experiences like something that appears to be a physical levitation, people glowing and emitting warmth, etc... would be more fantastic and might be harder to deny then say a common run of the mill prophetic dream.
Here's an example that has various elements of the above ... hopefully you'll find this convo enjoyable as well
I'll try and keep this as short as possible for brevity, while still including some interesting details.
Back around 2000, my wife and I started exploring Christianity as a whole very seriously. Prior to that, I had my own experiences and focusses in life, but I was not religious in any sense, I did not have it shoved down my throat growing up, and so I was still very much unfamiliar with much of the different facets and denominations, branches, etc of Christianity. At the time, I had a best friend from high school who had surprised everyone by converting to Eastern Orthodoxy (at first it was Greek and then later he would go to Russian). It was out of the blue, and shocking to us all, because it was opposite from his personality and upbringing (essentially an agnostic upbringing). Anyways, when my wife (at the time) and I started to explore Christianity, we started with Eastern Orthodoxy. My friend gave a good argument for how the religion traced it's roots back to the Apostles directly, succession, etc and so forth. We wanted to "do it right", and we actually visited a monastery on an island near where we lived (Washington State). I began to read literature, etc and so forth, we talked about what it would take to become Orthodox, etc.
Anyways, one thing lead to another, and we ended up going in a completely different direction. To keep a very long story short (I mean, the story itself is fascinating I think
even speaking to the synchronicities concept and whatnot
.) we found ourselves involved with an interdenominational missionary organization group prayer meeting one day, that was wildly different from the Orthodoxy we were just learning. This was Pentecostal and Charismatic in nature. It was the first time I had been exposed to such a thing
the "babbling" praying in tongues, singing songs, throwing hands up in the air, praying so many things in the "Lord, we just come before you and ask __________" manner. Very emotional, lots of hype.
I was offended actually
it went against everything I was learning, every direction I was heading. I actually remember being angry at their behavior, upset
fists clinched. I was uncomfortable, everything seemed ridiculous to me. I felt out of place. BUT, I wanted to understand Christianity, find the branch that "had it right", etc. I was convinced within the first few minutes of being in that prayer meeting, that the people I was looking at were NOT the ones who "had it right".
That's when one of the people in the prayer meeting stopped doing the "tongues babble" talk, and looked at me (there was only about ten people in it, maybe less), and said to me, "I believe God wants you to ask Him something. Almost like He's daring you to ask Him something.
My first thought was, "I can't take anymore of this nonsense. What gives her the right to single me out ? How manipulative
"
BUT
something started to happen to me. I'll try and be detailed, because it brings me back to something I was saying up above and somewhat the thread in general
I started to experience what seemed like a strong wind, warm, begin to blow around me and enter me. Like, if you could imagine a wind blowing on the outside of you, but then "enter" into you and begin to fill you up on the inside, this is what it felt like. I felt myself get hot and warm, and I couldn't stop it
I could feel my face getting flush, cheeks and ears red I was sure of it
and I don't know why, but I began to cry. Not sad or happy tears, more like, overwhelming. I felt suddenly overwhelmed, like I didn't know what was physically happening to me, and tears started to flow.
As this wind was happening, and I kept feeling warmer and warmer and filled by it, I began to feel also like something were on fire within me. As though something were being burned away, almost cauterized. It wasn't painful. It wasn't enjoyable, but it wasn't painful. As this burning effect continued, I began to experience a clarity as well. Not the type of clarity when you're "in the zone", focussed on something and able to focus on the task at hand with clarity, not like that
more like what people probably try to describe when they describe "enlightenment". I'm not saying I experienced enlightenment, only that the clarity seemed akin to it.
This wasn't a process I could stop. Whatever was happening to me, wasn't in my control. It was happening TO me.
Within that clarity, I began to "hear" something. Yes this story involves "voices", but hopefully it's still enjoyable and interesting to read
I began to hear a voice
not with my ears, and not in my mind, but in a place that is like, in between. I could still think to myself the entire time, in fact, I kept trying to reason in my mind what was happening. The voice said, "Go ahead, ask .. I dare you, ask me something."
It kept repeating it over and over
it wasn't my voice, not my internal voice, I didn't recognize the voice. But it sounded friendly. I know it sounds ridiculous, but it sounded friendly.
Like I said, I could still reason in my own mind, and I honestly began to think to myself and ask myself, "Am I imagining this ? Am I hallucinating ? Is this what a hallucination is like ? That can't possibly be a real voice, am I being influenced by these people somehow ?"
But the voice kept repeating, saying the same thing
"Go ahead, ask !" almost like a friend would talk to me.
I began to look around me, to see if anyone else was looking at me and seeing what I was going through
I was crying, I was sure my face was red and flush, and I didn't really expect others to hear the voice too
but at the same time, like I said it wasn't in my head. So I wondered if others could hear it. No one was really paying attention to me, they just left me alone, sitting there, they continued with their prayers and whatnot.
This went on for a couple of minutes
and I decided to "play along". I mean, it wasn't stopping, I was either hallucinating or I wasn't, so I may as well talk back, either it was a real or it wasn't.
So I sort of calmed my own mind down, and thought, "Okay
if this is God I'm hearing, and I can ask something, I would like proof you are real. Part the ocean I'm looking at right now." (where I was sitting, I could see the ocean at that time).
I mean, go big or go home
why not cut to the chase ? It's the question everyone wants answered, and they want to see dramatic proof of it. So parting the ocean would have been dramatic enough to me.
The voice responded, "Don't ask something that proves whether I'm real or not."
At that, I was CERTAIN I was making it all up. I was imagining it. It was bogus. I thought to myself, "I'm not going to waste another minute on this,"
but the voice came back, "Ask something else. Go ahead, ask something else."
I gave it another minute or so
the experience wasn't ending, still with the wind, the warmth, the "fire", the clarity, the voice
I was thinking that if it was in fact bogus, my own ability to reason through it would eventually cause it to stop and get me out from the influence of whatever was happening to me. But it didn't, so after about a minute, I asked, "Okay if this is God, then my wife and I need money. We are running out,"
kind of sad I would go there, but we were running out, and were afraid we would end up homeless.
The voice responded back with an impression, I had the impression I didn't need to ask for that, that it was already known and would always be taken care of.
At that, I thought it was even more bogus. I was told I could ask anything, yet my first question was denied. My second question was unnecessary. And everything I was now engaging in went against my own concepts and expectations of who "God" was. I mean, I was considering Orthodoxy, not this nonsense that seemed more like a genie.
Yet the experience wasn't ending, the voice was still saying, "Ask again, come on
" and so I thought to myself, "Okay. I'll try this one more time. It's not ending, I don't think I'm crazy just yet, so let me think. If I were to ask something "Christian"esque, I would ask something for someone else. Not myself. I would ask something for another."
So I thought about it.
There was a man (we'll say his name is Mark) that the group was praying for, a man who was dying from a disease (I'll try and keep some things private here). They were praying for him to be healed. I had no idea who this man was, I hadn't met him
he was a friend of theirs, to me I only knew him by his name because of them. So I thought to myself, "I wonder if it's okay to ask for Mark to be healed." So I asked the voice, "Can I pray for Mark to be healed of his disease ?" and the voice said, "Yes you may pray for that
"
And that's when I had a vision
it was the first time I had anything like that happen. It was something I could see in the same place I was "hearing" this voice. It wasn't with my natural eyes, so it wasn't taking place in front of me
and it wasn't in my mind's eye, where I would normally visualize things. It was "in-between" is how I would describe it. Anyways, I actually felt the voice "leave", as though it had a presence that left when it left
and this vision came into focus.
I saw a room
very detailed. There was a man in a bed, laying down, and I was there at the foot of the bed praying over him. I remember everything in the room
position of the dressers, chairs, color of the bed spread and sheets. There was a sliding glass door that had long pink curtains going down to the floor, and the sun was setting in a specific way through the window to one side where the curtains were parted. There was a specific pattern on the bed sheets, everything. And along with me in the vision, were two other people
a girl I knew only by face (I had seen her walking around with this group I was currently in the prayer meeting with), she was there like a ghost, and then disappeared. There was one other person, another member of the group. He was there more solid, less "ghost like", but he wasn't there fully. It was hard to describe.
I saw that vision, made note of every single element, and then it ended
the vision faded, the wind feeling stopped, I stopped feeling hot, the clarity left me for the most part, no more voice, no vision, I stopped crying, I "returned to normal" as it were.
cont ...
Supernatural Turing Test, I like that.
