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It's not a cliche, but actual scripture. In fact, it's how you know the saved from the lost. The walk.I believe Romans 2 is talking about not being a hypocrite.
In other words if you are still a liar, are you judging others who lie since you are still doing that yourself?
That's the point of the scripture you cited, I believe.
And it probably relates to Jesus saying we need to deal with our own log in our eye and get it out and under control before we can help anyone to deal with a speak of dust in their eye. Jesus said "deal with your own log, then help others to "see".
We can't just talk the talk, we have to walk the walk.
The above is a cliche, I know. But, it is the best I can think of this early in the morning.
My understanding from those who believe this OSAS assertion is YES, in your made up story, according to those who forward this assertion, you'll still get in heaven.I am a Christian but at some point if I decide to turn my back on God, then I am still saved? Is this what once saved always saved means?
What if scernerio..............Just a story! It is made up but act as if were true.
So lets say I had it with church and God after 25 years of service to him. I go back to being a alcholic, drug addict, get back into to Hell's Angels and become a hit man again. Just pick up right where where I left off. 25 years ago I murdered about 30 people, raped over 500 women and butchered and made many people lame.
If I started right where I left off, murdered another 30 people, raped another 500 women, etc etc....and none of these victims were saved.
Are you telling me that the once saved always saved doctrine preaches that I'll still make heaven? Yet the victims that were never saved will go to hell.
???
You write: "Preservation of the Saints does teach that one can never lose one's salvation".Preservation of the Saints does teach that one can never lose one's salvation, but a person who has been saved would never do those things that you say, it's a complete nonsensical argument. It's like asking if God could make a stone so big that He can not lift it. It's pointless.
Someone who has truly been saved is a new man. Yes we still sin and stumble, struggle and fall. But we are still the new man. Who are you trusting for your salvation? Yourself and your ability to stay holy? Or Christ and what He paid on your behalf?
You write: "What sins did Jesus pay for upon the cross? Only those we make before we are saved, or did He pay for it all?""There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."
You miss the entire context of Romans 1-3. Romans 1-8 is dealing with salvation of man, and the first 3 chapters are all dealing with natural man, worldly man, man apart from God. To take those verses and apply them to someone who has been saved is quite eroneous, but not unsurprising from someone who denies the eternal security found in our Savior. If we can't earn our salvation, then how is it that we can lose it? What sins did Jesus pay for upon the cross? Only those we make before we are saved, or did He pay for it all?
Jesus said he would never lose any of those given to Him... I take that literally.
It's unbiblical to have freedom. We are either a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness. Rom 6:18.I don't think the difference is merely that the christian feels remorse while the sinner doesn't. I often hear christian say stuff like that, "at least I'm trying, I'm not perfect and I'm still struggling but I'm praying and trying..."
And trying and trying and trying and trying. Have you ever met a christian who actually had victory over sin after trying long and hard enough? I've never met one. Not once. But I have met a few who have understood that victory is something Jesus gives.
What's the point of regretting and trying and repenting and feeling remorse if you just keep on doing whatever bad thing it is that you do? Or if you come up with some new sin to slave under? Really, what's the point? It sounds more like self-justification to me - people realize deep down that they can't stop anyway, so they hide behind their prayers and intentions and struggles.
There's no freedom in that.
There are several out there, here is a start.My understanding from those who believe this OSAS assertion is YES, in your made up story, according to those who forward this assertion, you'll still get in heaven.
But again, since I can't find any scripture about this once saved always saved and quite a lot the supports conditional salvation, I'm unsure what these people are talking about.
It is my hope those who put forth this OSAS assertion will provide us with scripture to help us find the truth in this assertion, or we'll be able to say, no, this is a fable in Pop Christianity and start to conform ourselves to whatever we discover.
Personally, I'd like to believe this assertion because I am far from perfect, but as I said earlier, I can't find any scripture to justify this belief.
God bless
If you need to read in a book , "Do not kill" in order to restrain yourself from killing , you only show yourself to be a murderer . Your not killing someone isn't based on love of the Lord nor of love for the person you wish to kill - only a love of ritualistic Law .
The freedom from sin to be a slave to righteousness.It is for freedom that Christ set us free.
I think it is right on as usual.Interesting concept. I think I disagree. Some people know in their heart it is wrong to kill someone, since it is written on their heart. Others who may be weaker in the Spirit need to read the command of Jesus to love their enemies and as they become stronger in the Spirit, they eventually keep the command out of love. It then becomes written on their heart and they no longer need to read it in a book.
What do you think?
God Bless
The issue is not whether we sin or not, the issue is our attitude towards sin (a change of heart attitude is needed). This comes about by placing Jesus as Lord and not self.I have a very close Christian friend to me who always says that "I'm trying....I'm not perfect..." and continues to live in the same struggles...year after year after year. I just leave it up to God to know if this person is really saved or not. Sometimes I get frustrated with this individual, but then I realize that only God can actually make the final judgement call on this person and on me as well.
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