• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

How can we obey?

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by gideons300, Apr 16, 2012.

  1. revrobor

    revrobor Veteran

    +315
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Others
    Obedience is a choice. People will throw all kinds of Scripture verses at you but in the end obedience is a choice. We struggle daily with making decisions, sometimes right, sometimes wrong. But you will find, if you understand God will help you, the more you choose to obey the more you will obey and it will become easier to do so. And don't beat yourself up when you disobey. God is a loving, forgiving Savior who doesn't keep score.
     
  2. gideons300

    gideons300 Guest

    +0
    Brother, obedience is a choice, you are correct. But let me make sure we all understand willfully sinning again and again crosses the line from disobedience to outright willful rebellion and is using the blood of Christ as a covering, that we "might add sin to sin". It is simply turning the blood of forgiveness in lasciviousness, or a license to sin and plead the blood later. How many of us, when tempted to do "that" sin again, in our hearts count on the fact that we can be forgiven BEFORE we even sin? There is danger there, grave danger.


    Do we not see? Obedience was a choice as well under the law and if we are in the same place, still choosing death rather than life, the new covenant was no improvement at all!

    God has clearly spoken that under the new covenant, He will give us new hearts, new natures, but who has truly believed this report? Who has gotten so sick of failing Him, of disobeying Him for the umpteenth time to set him free from willful sin? Character flaws are simply God's fruit not yet ripened, but we must be far more discerning of willful sin, and God;s word is also extremely clear of the consequences. Jesus's sacrifice does not cover that. Do we GET that??? We must, if we truly value our souls.


    The Roman church inadvertantly spawned the protestant reformation with the selling of "indulgences", pre-paid sin passes to be used next Saturday night at the bar, so to speak.

    We, in our willful sins, with our hearts not crying out for deliverance, firmly in the grip of unbelief in the power of God to set us free indeed as Christ promised, has one-upped the Catholics that purchased these indulgences. We purchase them and then tell God to put it on Jesus's tab.


    If the shame of that ever hits us, it will put us on our knees begging for forgiveness first and then crying out for the new heart, the obedient heart, that He has cleartly promised us all.

    Blessings,

    Gideon
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2012
  3. hwyangel

    hwyangel Newbie

    279
    +5
    Christian
    Single
    No comment.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2012
  4. hwyangel

    hwyangel Newbie

    279
    +5
    Christian
    Single
    Probably just wasting my time anyway.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2012
  5. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

    +3,605
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    "If the shame of that ever hits us, it will put us on our knees begging for forgiveness first and then crying out for the new heart, the obedient heart, that He has cleartly promised us all."

    So your saying that in order for this process of repentance/forgiveness to work, one must be "shamed" of themselves first. I've spent plenty of time being ashamed, and it has put me on my knees, but I have since had to "rise" up from that and continue on. I don't feel so ashamed anymore, I have cleaned up some of my sins, and so have some minor victories that I can celebrate, I just couldn't remove all of my stain, which is a message in itself if you ask me. The message that there is no one achieving perfection.
     
  6. gideons300

    gideons300 Guest

    +0
    Brother, you are not alone in this pont of view, that somehow, over years and years, the willful sins we "battle" will eventually grow less and less, but it simply is not what the word teaches us. We are not discussing perfection, but absolute surrender. The former takes a lifetime, the latter a moment on our faces.

    We are told to present our bodies living sacrifices, holy, acceptable unto God and then told this is no noble self-denying ascetic only that is to take this "high road", it is THE road to life for every one of us and is our "reasonable service".

    God is totally willing to give us strength to resist, if we but acknowledge that we MUST defeat that rebel heart in us and that we cannot do it without Him 'causing us" to do so, Our problem as the church is that we are quite content without victory and our continued rebellion does not bother us enough to be found on our faces crying out for deliverance from a heart that still wants what God does not. He died to set us free and yet, we are not even like the man in the temple crying out to God for mercy. We simply plead the blood. as if it does not require our whole hearts in exchange.

    Resisting sin "unto blood" is a foreign concept to us. We will not find the path to God's delivering hand until we have exhausted all our resources and realized we need a miracle of grace.

    No, we cannot overcome sin in ourselves.

    Yes, without holiness no an shall see the Lord.

    Those two facts should put us face down seeking a miracle, a miracle God has promised by the way. There is a way out, but until it bothers us to no end that willful sin still resides in our hearts, we will not find the doorway of hope.

    We better learn quickly that if our hearts are content without godliness, without victory over besetting willing disobdience, we have no right at all to expect a "well done, thou good and faithful servant". God's warning for willful sin is severe. Will will simply ignore it? Do we realize it is our SOUL we are toying with so we can continue to play with sin for a season longer?

    Blessings,

    Gideon
     
  7. hwyangel

    hwyangel Newbie

    279
    +5
    Christian
    Single
    I just hope God isn't as tough as you guys are.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2012
  8. gideons300

    gideons300 Guest

    +0
    I hope you do not think me "tough". God's purpose for us to truly see the vastness of His grace, uses law to paint us into a corner, a corner we cannot escape from. The law has a job to do, to make us see that in our flesh, we do not have what it takes to follow Him to the end. But praise God, once that is accomplished the law has done its job and we are prepared to discover that the grace of God goes far deeper than forgiveness,

    I was reading Hebrews this morning, and the writer tells us:

    "Wherefore seeing we are compassed aboutwith so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight and the sin that doth so easily beset, and let us run with patience the race set before us."
    Hebrews 12:1

    When we got saved, we entered the race, not a sprint, but a marathon. It is not good enoughg to simply be entered into the race. It is a race we must finish. He thatr endureth to the end, the same shall be saved. Paul tells us we must run it as if there is but one prize and our determination must be that we will be the one to receive it. How foreign this concept is to today's church. We all want to waltz, and not run.

    Later in that same chapter of Hebrews, we are told:

    "Make straint paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way, but rather let it be healed.

    Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord. looking diligently, lest any man fail of the grace of God."
    Hebrews 12:13-15

    Do we see? Although the grace of God is free, it calls for a response on our part. This is not works but a love response, a giving of ourselves, all of us, including that rebel part of us that refuses Him the speaks and wants to do things our way. This is the very thing we are to be saved from!

    We have all entered this marathon, and if we are stayed with our eyes on Jesus, we have full assurance that we are His and heaven is our portion throughout this entire race. But make no mistake, satan wants things to turn out differently, and will try to sway us off the course we are to run, to entice, to distract, to get us into HIS world, not the one to come.

    The example that followed these scriptures are concerning Esau, who sold his birthright to his brother for a piece of meat. How many of us have put our very souls in danger by simply assuming the grace of God protects us from....US. We think if we sin a little bit, willful, knowing sin, that we can always repent later for we can always count on the blood of Christ to forgive us. After all, no one is perfect, right?

    Satan is hiding in that mindset. Danger lurks here, and the scriptures are clear, for we are told that if we continue in willful sin, there remains no more sacrifice for sins but a certain fearful looking for of judgement. This should melt us, but hearts have been so hardened that for many it is simply like water on a duck's back.

    What does the true grace of God do for us? It is to teach us that:

    "denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we are to live soberly, righteously and justly in this present age."

    Titus 2:12

    This may seem a hard and wearisome road, but it is not to be so. God has promised us new natures, new hearts, hearts that WANT to do His will, and then CAN do it, but how few see this yet!

    Grace is far more powerful than we have ever realized, but until we hunger after the rest that remains for the people of God, the easy yoke, the pace where His commands to us are not grievous but joyous, and set our faces like a flint to follow hard after the Lord, wanting to, more than our next breath, be changed into the image of our Lord by the Holy Spirit He has given us, we remain in grave danger of being like Esau, counting our bbirthright as nothing, and in the end seeking God to change His judgement of us, with tears, lots of them, but all to bno avail. The doors will shut and there will be weeping like we have never heard before.

    The 12th chapter of Hebrews closes with this:

    "See that you refuse not Him that speaketh, for if they did not escape who spake from Earth, how much more shall not we escape, who refuse Him from Heaven?"
    Hebrews 12:25

    If you feel this path God has set us on is too high, too hard, you are right! That is why He offers us new hearts, new natures, but we must first cry out to be freed from the old one, so we may no more be double minded. No one will waltz into heaven. They will look like they have run a marathon, with much joy on their faces and their eyes firmly fixed upon the savior who bought them,

    Blessings,

    Gideon

     
  9. hwyangel

    hwyangel Newbie

    279
    +5
    Christian
    Single
    I agree. Just sayin, let's not let our drive for perfection kill our kindness and grace.
     
  10. beggarsall

    beggarsall Newbie

    116
    +5
    Christian
    Married
    I love this! Simply fantastic.

    It's so awesome this is true!

    I like this too, the concept is true in a sense, but I'm going to nitpick a little bit here because I'm infuriating:D

    God does keep score, being a God of perfect justice and all that. It's just that we all get a perfect score because we Jesus is our team. Not just our team captain, but our entire team. His score is our score.

    How cool is that!
     
  11. gideons300

    gideons300 Guest

    +0
    Then all I know is God owes the Laodercian church a HUGE apology.
     
  12. ReformedPharisee

    ReformedPharisee Messenger of the New Covenant

    116
    +2
    Non-Denom
    Married

    Hi hwyangel!

    Yes, but I fear that most folks today do not understand that the perfection God wants from us today has nothing to do with law, it has everything to do with love...

    When Jesus said...

    Matthew 5:48
    "You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

    He was talking about loving people, about being perfect in love as God is perfect in love. He goes on to say...

    Matthew 7:12
    "So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets."

    Under the Old Covenant, obedience was to Law.
    Under the New Covenant, obedience is to Love.

    :D
     
  13. hwyangel

    hwyangel Newbie

    279
    +5
    Christian
    Single
    What's a Laodercian church?
     
  14. hwyangel

    hwyangel Newbie

    279
    +5
    Christian
    Single
    @ ReformedPharisee
    True. That's kinda point, lol. The only kind of perfect we can get is Jesus.
     
  15. gideons300

    gideons300 Guest

    +0
    Laodecia was one of seven churches that received letters in the book of Revelations. Each has a personl message from the spirit of God. Some got thumbs up, some got reprimanded. One was simply dressed down, a lesson in the love of God that is willing to chasten if needed.

    God told the Laodecians that "You say you are rich and powerful and increased with goods and have need of nothing. You are not hot, you are not cold, you are simply lukewarm, going through the motions.'' God stated He wished that they were hot or cold, but since they were but lukewarm, He would spew them out of His mouth unless they repented.What a foreign God this is to the modern church. Yet this is our God. He changes not.

    He then told them that in His eyes, they were poor and blind and naked and wretched and counseled them to repent and buy of Him gold tried on the fire, faith wrought from heat of battle, and, to buy white raiment, a new nature, so that the shame of their nakedness would not appear.

    He then says "As many as I love I rebuke and chasten".

    How far we have fallen in this belief that somehow, covered by the blood, we can do the best we can, but hey, He understands we are only human. We use the blood as a covering so that we can continue to sin and God clearly shows there are no "rose colored glasses" He views us through. He sees our hearts, and whether or not it really bothers us that sin still controls us when He promised us He would set ud free indeed.

    May God open our eyes that we cannot fashion God as WE like, but we must submit ourselves to His truth and if it judges us guilty and in need of heart-felt repentance, then so be it.

    Blessings,

    Gideon
     
  16. beggarsall

    beggarsall Newbie

    116
    +5
    Christian
    Married
    Ummmmm, it seems I have spoken unclearly (that's not a word).

    All I was saying was that God does keep score. Heaven is a perfect place, and you have to be perfect to get in.

    But, fortunately, if you love Jesus with all your heart, that's your ticket in, your perfect score.
     
  17. gideons300

    gideons300 Guest

    +0
    Just to make sure I understand you a bit more clearly.

    Suppose a man accepts Christ, but lives out his life simply going to church, confessing when he does wrong in sort of a ho-hum, no one is perfect sort of reasoning, but has no real desire to truly make Jesus Lord of his life or to truly follow Him.

    He has a 6/1 relationship with God. Six days are his, one day is God's. If all stays the same, what is this man's fate according to what the bible says? Will he be saved?

    Thanks!

    Gideon
     
  18. GRACE WINS EVERYTIME!

    GRACE WINS EVERYTIME! New Member

    18
    +1
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
  19. thesunisout

    thesunisout growing in grace Supporter

    +1,355
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    I believe this is the answer:

    Romans 8:13

    For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.
     
Loading...