How can science "explain" miracles?

[crazygardenlady]

Wow, hmm. I suppose I've never thought of it like that, but I can see how science and religion don't exactly go hand in hand like I wish they did. You've given me something to think about!

 

[The Paul]

Imagine I'm driving to the grocery store, and I see a man walking beside the road.

I arrive at my destination, do my shopping, and on my way back to my car, I see he same man walk across the parking lot and into a shop.

Suppose I said to myself, "I know where that man was fifteen minutes ago, and I saw him walk down the block. I saw him walk across the parking lot just now. I know there is a route traversable by foot between where I saw him last and the parking lot, and I have seen people walking various portions of it."

And I concluded, "I did not watch the man walk all the way from where I saw him last to the parking lot, so the only reasonable conclusion is that while obviously he can cover short segments of the journey by foot, it is impossible for him to have walked the whole way."

It would be a bit like inventing the distinction "macroevolution."

 

[AV1611VET]

Science can change though - you do not know what science will be like in 500 years from now.

Actually, I do know -- but I take it you're not a dispensationalist, so I won't elaborate.

 

[AV1611VET]

It would be a bit like inventing the distinction "macroevolution."

What you have demonstrated is microevolution -- not macroevolution.

Just like those who tell me I should look at a picture of myself as a baby, then look in the mirror.

In your analogy, he is still the same man.

 

[AtheistVet]

What if God showed them how He did it. You either believe the Bible or you don't. God said He is the one that gives us wisdom, knowledge and understanding. That is why the great discoverys in Science come from Christians and men of God. He not only give us the ability to understand. He gives us a universe that is understandable. For me a fossil is like a greeting card from God. He wants to show us what He did, so He preserved the fossil for us. What He does not want to show us He will destroy and there will be nothing left to find.

Because that NEVER happens. Science makes a discovery, you guys try desperately to either A) twist and contort what the bible says to make it sound like it was in there all along or B) bullheadedly deny it.

 

[AV1611VET]

Because that NEVER happens. Science makes a discovery, you guys try desperately to either A) twist and contort what the bible says to make it sound like it was in there all along or B) bullheadedly deny it.

What's your point?

 

[Lillen]

I was dead, dead as a stone, stone dead... God gave me my life back!

 

[driewerf]

What if God showed them how He did it.

Well, he didn't. They figured it all by themselves.

You either believe the Bible or you don't.

And I don't.

God said He is the one that gives us wisdom, knowledge and understanding.

No, priests said that. but they immediatly warned not to to use tghat wisdom beyond the limits that they wanted.

That is why the great discoverys in Science come from Christians and men of God.

Except of course for all the discoveries of the Ancient Greeks, of the Chinese (paper! gun powder! the compass!) the Arabs (algebra!), or nowadays atheists.

For me a fossil is like a greeting card from God.

that's for you, butr it isn't for me.

 

[driewerf]

this reminds me of the former pope, Karol Woytila, who had one billion catholics praying for his recovery, but went nontheless to the best italian hospital, with the best surgery team. (Smart way to act by the way )

 

[driewerf]

I apologize on the behalf of other Christians. We are not all like that, and I think Jazer's remarks are disgusting, and antithetical to the spirit of the Christian religion.

There need to be more christians like you, Sir.

 

[AV1611VET]

this reminds me of the former pope, Karol Woytila, who had one billion catholics praying for his recovery, but went nontheless to the best italian hospital, with the best surgery team. (Smart way to act by the way )

And what did Jesus say?

Luke 5:31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.

Did you really get that last part? and do you really understand it, unlike that girl in that silly cartoon?

According to this verse, who needs a physician?

 

[driewerf]

You do know that saying something is DNA stops geology, right?

I understand what Gregg1234 says.

it turns out to be nonsense. :o

 

[driewerf]

Why did this person not die from the black death? Well it's either a miracle or they had an adaptation that allowed them to survive. One answer leads absolutely NOWHERE, the other leads to better understanding of how to deal with disease.

Well, not exactly. the first answers brings a lot of people to a church praying their god for salvation. A lot of people: people with the adequate adaptation, non- infected people without the adequate adaptation, and infected people. Way of speeding up the infection.

 

[AV1611VET]

I understand what Gregg1234 says.

it turns out to be nonsense. :o

But do you understand now why the Pope went to the doctor? or is the question too hard for you?

(What's your area of expertise? maybe I can dumb it down.)

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

And what did Jesus say?

Luke 5:31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.

Did you really get that last part? and do you really understand it, unlike that girl in that silly cartoon?

According to this verse, who needs a physician?

Are you saying that Jesus was suggesting people that are sick go see a doctor?

Physicians in Jesus' time knew very little about the etiology of disease. Jesus apparently knew everything. So I find it odd that Jesus put in a bunch of referrals. It'd be like an orthopedic surgeon today referring you to a preschooler to get your hip replaced.

 

[AV1611VET]

Are you saying that Jesus was suggesting people that are sick go see a doctor?

I'm asking you if that's what you get from that verse?

Are you going to answer it, or are you going to hide behind a series of question marks?

I'd like to know if, according to that verse, any of you ... scientists understand why the Pope would go to a doctor.

ETA: Oh, my -- oh dear my -- I just looked at your profile LHM:

Bachelor of Science in Molecular Biology
Doctor of Medicine Candidate

Unbelievable.

(Actually, I do believe it, because I don't think you Internet scientists are half as knowledgeable as you want us to think you are.)

 

[driewerf]

But do you understand now why the Pope went to the doctor? or is the question too hard for you?

(What's your area of expertise? maybe I can dumb it down.)

being condescendent doesn't suit you, Sir.

 

[AV1611VET]

being condescendent doesn't suit you, Sir.

And being evasive suits you?

I looked in your profile and couldn't tell if you claim to be a scientist or not.

But you certainly sound [evasive] like one.

They certainly know where the question mark is on their keyboards, and where to log out at.

 

[thaumaturgy]

Wow, hmm. I suppose I've never thought of it like that, but I can see how science and religion don't exactly go hand in hand like I wish they did. You've given me something to think about!

Now, don't get me wrong! First off a lot of scientists are people of faith, so it isn't like science says there is no god.

And who's to say that some day someone will not find some way to "test" for God.

Being an atheist, I am doubtful precisely because we as a species have built the entire concept of God based on our personal ignorance of the world. We came up with idea of God and "fleshed him out" so thoroughly long before we started to understand what we should be looking for.

We used to attribute those things we didn't understand to "God", the famous "God of the Gaps", but when we started to understand those things God got smaller and smaller so he had to expand out into the areas of things we didn't even know to think about.

The other day while driving home I was listening to a song on the radio with the line "tell me all your thoughts on God" ("Blue Cars" by Dishwalla, if I recall correctly). I began to think therein lies the rub. Every human being once introduced to the idea of a formless, shapeless, boundless "concept" upon which they can paint, hang, stick or otherwise project their "ideas" has wound us up with countless "versions" of God/god/al'lah/aharu mazda/Zeus, etc etc.

If there is a God would it not have been better to start with the evidence and work our way to understanding instead of starting out with our ignorance and "building" God?

Of course that could never have happened. We matured as a species and we grew into knowledge. We had to have a "stop gap measure" to help us make sense of a sometimes senseless world where statistical anomalies and unexpected events occured that we couldn't explain.

 

[thaumaturgy]

Actually, I do know -- but I take it you're not a dispensationalist, so I won't elaborate.

AV, your pride is showing a weeeeee bit.

You "know" nothing of what the future will hold. You have "hypotheses" based on your "religious model", but you "know" nothing about the future in 500 years (other than you will not be here).

As a scientist part of what you learn is humility in the face of reality. We understand that we can "know" nothing with certainty about future events. The best we can do is make a strong prediction but remember there is always the possibility of error.

Even I, as an evil atheist, understand that I don't "know" there is no God. I simply fail to see reason to believe that there is.

I think religion should bring you comfort....not make you feel you are a god yourself with perfected knowledge of future events.

But some people can't make the distinction.