Now im not a bible scholar or anything but doesn't the bible say that sin does not exist in heaven and there is no evil in heaven? Well if this is true then how did satan decide he wanted to be more powerful then god while in heaven? and if he does exist then god obviously wanted him to exist. If god is all knowing he already knew that lucifer would become evil and try to get as much people in hell with him. God is the one who created satan and gave him all the evil power. Ive been thinking about this for a while now and im asking myself why would god create this angel already knowing he was doomed for hell and gave him such great power?
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How can satan possibly exist?
- Thread starter Jmichael
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WashedClean
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Evil does not exist in heaven, which is why Lucifer (Satan) was cast down to earth. He, along with all the angels, have free will. When he wanted to exalt himself above God, he was cast down to earth.
Lucifer was one of God's most beautiful angelic created beings and was given special powers in heaven and was in charge of worship. Unfortunately, pride was his downfall, which is ours as well.
Yes, God created him knowing he would rebel. But you can't have free will without evil. God doesn't want anyone, including angels, to worship him as robots. He wants us (and angels) to worship from our hearts out of our own free will.
Hope this helps.
Lucifer was one of God's most beautiful angelic created beings and was given special powers in heaven and was in charge of worship. Unfortunately, pride was his downfall, which is ours as well.
Yes, God created him knowing he would rebel. But you can't have free will without evil. God doesn't want anyone, including angels, to worship him as robots. He wants us (and angels) to worship from our hearts out of our own free will.
Hope this helps.
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Well then what was the point of even making lucifer? it even seems like god wanted lucifer to become satan.
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My opinion has always been that, just as Christians have faith in God, God has faith in His creations. He creates us, just as He created His angels, because He wants us to have life. With this life comes free will, and He knows that we can (and will) go one of two ways; embrace Him or turn away. He loves us and wants us to have life, and this means creating us with the knowledge that we could turn away.
The same was true with his angels, and with Lucifer, in my opinion.
The same was true with his angels, and with Lucifer, in my opinion.
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BelindaP
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Having a Lucifer is the price of creating creatures with free will. It was so important to God that His created beings have free will that he did so, knowing that some of them would rebel.
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loyalbabus
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What was the point of making humanity? Every one of us fell just as hard as Lucifer.
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I dunno you tell me? the fact that god makes certian people predestined for hell turns me away from christrianity. God is suppose to be all good but it was him who gave those terrorist the power to plan out 9/11. Really why did god bother making mankind? the bible says only a small amount of people will enter heaven. And if i can't go to heaven whats the point of being alive noone wants to spend eternity in hell.
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Secundulus
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Nobody who has studied any serious theology will say that God predestines anyone to hell.
Some might say that God predestines some to election to heaven. Those who he doesn't predestine to election he does not predestine to hell. Rather they earn a place in hell due to their own sinfulness.
My own personal statement is this. I know where the Holy Spirit is. I cannot know for sure where he is not. I know for a fact my place with God. I do not know for certain anybody elses. Anybody who says they do is either a prophet or a liar.
Why do you think you have to go to hell? The fact that you are even asking these questions might very well indicate that God is directly offering you the gift of grace to accept his free offer of salvation. All you have to do is say yes.
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loyalbabus
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Would you honestly steal someone's life from them because you were aware of what their choices were? God loved Lucifer with all his heart and still does, Lucifer wants to be in hell because it robs God of his child. We give that angel a lot of flak, but let me be the devil's advocate (literally) and say that he is no worse than us. I cry for the loss of his soul (though I have no intention of emulating his actions).
And I think that the only people to go to hell want to be there. I think hell will be the most miserable group of smug people to have ever been assembled, people who think they got one over on God because they hurt themselves and led others to do the same. There is a story in the Bible of a man who goes to hell and asks for the chance to warn his brothers of their coming fate. He is told it would change nothing, is that fatalism? It might be, if you consider it fate that you can't make peoples decisions for them.
Wouldn't it be amusing if every person in hell could immediately go to heaven if they so chose, but didn't because they hate God so much that they would would rather rule there kingdoms in the darkness than serve under a their father in the light. The crucifixion was a SECOND chance for a species that had already made a decision... a sacrifice for an enemy that he was willing to die for.
And if you think for a moment I'm being condescending, know that I have played the part of hell's servant to many times for me to fathom and I always slip in my walk, sometimes farther and farther until I can barely tell who God is, but his love keeps my walking forward. I'm not better, I'm better off as pastor of mine once put it (addressed to Christians in general). I know God didn't create devils because of how God sees me, a God who died to ask me the same damned question he already had before.
Will you come back to me?
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SuperNova
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Here is an illustration that I used in another thread.
GM makes a chevy knowing that it might be in an accident. Are the responsible if it does?
God knows there is potential for evil, but he did not make the evil. GM made the potential for a car accident, but they did not cause it.
God gave us the Bible to warn us about evil and to escape it and find him. GM made seatbelts and airbags to keep us safe.
God knew evil would happen, but he also knew he could fix the problem. He knew if he allowed evil to exist that he would have to send Jesus to die on the cross. He knew he'd end up paying the penalty for evil himself.
So if God created the potential for evil, even though the evil was not his doing, and then payed the penalty for all evil in the world, then what's the problem?
GM makes a chevy knowing that it might be in an accident. Are the responsible if it does?
God knows there is potential for evil, but he did not make the evil. GM made the potential for a car accident, but they did not cause it.
God gave us the Bible to warn us about evil and to escape it and find him. GM made seatbelts and airbags to keep us safe.
God knew evil would happen, but he also knew he could fix the problem. He knew if he allowed evil to exist that he would have to send Jesus to die on the cross. He knew he'd end up paying the penalty for evil himself.
So if God created the potential for evil, even though the evil was not his doing, and then payed the penalty for all evil in the world, then what's the problem?
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I ask the Lord the "Why?" of the fall of Lucifer and the angels all the time because my rational mind cannot accept of something so totally absurd, insane and incongruous to God's perfect nature as the Creator of such tragically mutable beings. One of two propositions must hold true: Either the Creator, self-acclaimed as being unexceptionally perfect, is in that claim guilty of fraud and misrepresentation....Or the Creator is in fact perfect, only so infinitely perfect that finite minds cannot properly appreciate this quality. The later proposition must be the truth, as this Creator surely would have never showed up on this wretched planet and died for our redemption if He were a common liar. He is telling us the truth in the Bible, but this "truth" is something that is as high in it's source and as unfathomable in it's declarations as an Author of infinite attributes would demand it to be. Ants don't comprehend geometry...But geometry is still true.
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