How can RCs and Protestants reconcile

[Rick Otto]

Who here is learning impaired ?

That would be me.
I have difficulty deciphering gibberish.

 

[katholikos]

...katholikos, your reply above does not answer the question. If I had never heard the gospel and was unsaved and you told me that, I would still be unsaved....

I would challenge your notion of what salvation is then. You are not "saved", because salvation is not something that just happens at one point in time. It is a process. As the Bible says, I am saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul, the Christian works out his salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13)."

I would also add, as I said before, that the "Good News" should not be reduced to a get-out-of-hell-free card. It means being an adopted son of God and living in the family of God. It is much much more than the narrow view of "am I saved"

 

[Nadiine]

Nice rant. Shame it had nothing to do with what I said and more to do with your own stereotypes of those who don't completely agree with you.

it is a nice rant & it fits MOST of liberalism - I've carried debate &
discussions with them for some 11-12 yrs now & have chronically
heard it.

Being born again does not require having the perfect interpretation of every passage of the bible and the correct theology.

You may want to read the last paragaph I added to that post in an
edit.

There will always be theological and interpretative debates.

I haven't ever said we'd all believe identically on every single doctrine.
But even the very basics of Christianity are lost in some who have no common ground with scripture understanding/interpretation in it's clearest passages.

& MANY I've spoken with even claim the bible is totally unreliable as
truth from God - full of error and can be dismissed wherever they
deem it's "wrong". (selective intepretation or just throwing it out altogether when they notice they can't support a sin they prefer)

Sure there are minimum beliefs required for salvation but there are also many non-essentials that we need to have charity over.

Again, see my last paragaph added, I'm well aware.

You don't even take the time to understand my beliefs but just take the fact that I don't self identify as "conservative" as proof that I am not born again. It is God's power in my life you are denying.

point me to a post or posts that relay your beliefs, I'd be glad
to read them

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LLOJ HAT ON!!!!!

I am recommending that each and every post on this thread have at least some SCRIPTURES posted in it. Thank you

LLOJ HAT OFF

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Have you ever seen me say otherwise?


No it is my position that they were and still are heretics.


Interesting history you have there. The Pope of Rome attempted to excommunicate one, singular Eastern Bishop. The Pope was then excommunicated by all the Eastern Bishops. But that is hardly all of the history of the schism. I would love for that schism to be healed but my thoughts on the matter don't really count for much as I don't think anyone will be calling me a Bishop of any sort anytime in my life.

Well, since you agree that Christianity has NEVER been united, and since the EO and CC have been NOT been reconcilied in nearly 1000 years, what "advise" do you have to the question of this thread? After all, the EO and CC "split" nearly 500 years before Luther and you've had TEN CENTURIES to become reconciled. As an Orthodox Christian, tell us Catholics and Protestants how to do what Orthodoxy has failed to do in 1,000 years. For 500 years longer than our separation has even existed.





.

 

[katholikos]

LLOJ HAT ON!!!!!


I am recommending that each and every post on this thread have at least some SCRIPTURES posted in it. Thank you

LLOJ HAT OFF

I don't see any scripture quoted in THAT post

 

[Musa80]

LLOJ HAT ON!!!!!

I am recommending that each and every post on this thread have at least some SCRIPTURES posted in it. Thank you

LLOJ HAT OFF

That's all I can muster this morning. Sorry.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I don't see any scripture quoted in THAT post

Neither did I see any in yours

Gala 1:7 which is not another if no any are the ones disturbing ye and willing to pervert the Good-Message/euaggelion <2098> of the Christ.
8 But even if-ever we, or a messenger/aggeloV <32> out of heaven, should be well-messaging/euaggelizhtai <2097> (5735) to ye beside which we well-messagizing/euhggelisameqa <2097> (5668) to ye, anathema/anaqema <331> let him be.

 

[MamaZ]

How can one be saved?

 

[christianmomof3]

I would challenge your notion of what salvation is then. You are not "saved", because salvation is not something that just happens at one point in time. It is a process. As the Bible says, I am saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul, the Christian works out his salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13)."

I would also add, as I said before, that the "Good News" should not be reduced to a get-out-of-hell-free card. It means being an adopted son of God and living in the family of God. It is much much more than the narrow view of "am I saved"

That is a bit more informative of an answer. I also believe that salvation is a process - and the verses that you quoted are good ones. I do not believe that the gospel is a get out of hell free card either. However, one can lead others to be regenerated which is the first step in the process of salvation. One can explain to others how to become a member of the family of God.

So, what would you tell someone if they want to know HOW to become "an adopted son of God" or member of the family of God?

What would you tell someone if they want to know WHY they should become a Christian?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

50567042][/color]I think it is a valid question to ask Catholics (or any other Christian or Christian group representative) what they think is the gospel and how one can become saved. It is something that I find quite interesting as the concept does vary a bit from group to group. Yet, when asked that, the Catholic members here get defensive and often rude. I tried asking that or something like that at some point in the past in their OBOB area along with a few other sincere questions and they were so rude I don't go there anymore. The Orthodox, on the other hand, have always been polite in their replies to sincere questions in TAW.

I've found the same thing. Catholics do tend to get very defensive when you ask them to explain the Gospel, which is ironic, considering how they love to point out that their church is responsible for the Bible, which tells them that they are to preach the Gospel and be ready to give an answer.

On the other hand, I post on another message board made up primarily of Baptists and Fundamentalists and when non-Christians come their and ask about the Gospel, people there are thrilled to talk about it.

 

[Nadiine]

I would challenge your notion of what salvation is then. You are not "saved", because salvation is not something that just happens at one point in time. It is a process. As the Bible says, I am saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5&#8211;8), but I&#8217;m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9&#8211;10, 1 Cor. 3:12&#8211;15). Like the apostle Paul, the Christian works out his salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11&#8211;13)."

I would also add, as I said before, that the "Good News" should not be reduced to a get-out-of-hell-free card. It means being an adopted son of God and living in the family of God. It is much much more than the narrow view of "am I saved"

Many people today DO wrongly use salvation (I said the sinner's
prayer, so I'm safe) as a free pass to heaven when they aren't saved.
Definitely.

But those who ARE genuinely saved WILL display the fruits of a
born again believer & WILL not be removed from God's capable hands

(since we are saved & operating in HIS POWER, not our own).

1. Philippians 1:6
   being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;
   Philippians 1:5-7 (in Context) Philippians 1 (Whole Chapter)
2. Philippians 2:13
   for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
   

We don't fail becuz He doesn't fail. We CAN be secure, the issue is
are we securely in Him in the first place.
So I truly disagree that salvation is any "process". We are or we
aren't.

(not to nit pick on U either )

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

How can one be saved?

Where are the Scriptures for that?

Matt 10:22 And ye shall be being hated by all thru the Name of Me. The one yet enduring into a-finish/teloV <5056>, this one shall be being saved

Romans 10:13 For all who ever should be calling upon the Name of Lord, shall be being saved.

 

[Musa80]

[/color]
Well, since you agree that Christianity has NEVER been united, and since the EO and CC have been NOT been reconcilied in nearly 1000 years, what "advise" do you have to the question of this thread? After all, the EO and CC "split" nearly 500 years before Luther and you've had TEN CENTURIES to become reconciled. As an Orthodox Christian, tell us Catholics and Protestants how to do what Orthodoxy has failed to do in 1,000 years. For 500 years longer than our separation has even existed.
.

My opinion means little to nothing in the overall scheme of things but since you ask and LLOJ requires scripture, I say we all need to do a little bit more of this

[SIZE=+0] [SIZE=+0]29[/SIZE] Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
[SIZE=+0]30[/SIZE] And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’
[SIZE=+0]31[/SIZE] The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

and a lot less questioning of whether people are "saved" or not.
[/SIZE]

 

[MamaZ]

NO MAN CAN SNATCH US OUT OF THE FATHERS HAND.. Not even ouselves for we are but mere men

 

[Rick Otto]

Katholikos,
I might thinkof you as a bull in a china shop, or a booger in the sugar, but I think it was good, decent, & respectable of you to comply with John deer's request especialy when he's being so adversarial. You put your head on the chopping block to fulfill a basic Chritian duty.
Cool. That's guts & humility.

And even though we don't agree soteriologicaly, ecclesiologicaly, etc., etc.,... I thought you did a decent enough job of stating the gospel, too.
I got all excited & thought to start a thread contest on the most brief gospel.
"Christ crucified" was to be my entry.

Ok, I'm done. Back to hating!

 

[squint]

I agree, however, I qualified my statement with "theological unity". There should be no reason why we can't at the very least treat each other respectfully.

It will remain problematic to respect others POSITIONS when those POSITIONS are so busy condemning us PERSONALLY to (potentially or overtly) burn alive forever (or insert any other favorite form of personal manipulation) is it NOT?

I mean just where is there any fair measure in that?

They (insert your favorite christian organization who does this) say that IF others do not bow to their theological constructs, THEN you will (potentially or overtly) burn alive forever.

It might seem to me that nearly any attack against that measure would be completely justified by comparison to what those POSITIONS already are openly doing.

enjoy!

squint

 

[JohnDeereFan]

I would challenge your notion of what salvation is then. You are not "saved", because salvation is not something that just happens at one point in time. It is a process.

Wrong.

- These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life

"have eternal life" = one time past event, already completed.

 

[MamaZ]

Where are the Scriptures for that?

Matt 10:22 And ye shall be being hated by all thru the Name of Me. The one yet enduring into a-finish/teloV <5056>, this one shall be being saved

Romans 10:13 For all who ever should be calling upon the Name of Lord, shall be being saved.

changing the rules in the middle of the game?

 

[Nadiine]

JohnDeere:

I've found the same thing. Catholics do tend to get very defensive when you ask them to explain the Gospel, which is ironic, considering how they love to point out that their church is responsible for the Bible, which tells them that they are to preach the Gospel and be ready to give an answer.

I think a distinction has to be made - I've been FORCED to do the same
thing you're asking Kath. to do & when you have people attacking you
& then making demands to spit out a proper list, you DO get defensive.

This venue here is hostile to Kath, so it wouldn't be much wonder
that you'de see defensiveness. Plus, no doubt everything said will
be nit picked at -
like I just disagreed that sa lvation is a process. But it's not a serious
issue of disagreement, so I won't make it one.

In fairness, when someone's put on a hotseat, defensiveness is common & I get the same way when in the same circumstance.

*& by the way, when I inadverently FORGOT to mention one of the points of salvation
(I think it was repentance? not sure), they jumped on me & ranted that I was an
AntiChrist in sheeps clothing lol
EVEN AFTER I told them repeatedly that I BELIEVE THAT, I just forgot it.
they still shunned me.
I say who gives a crap what they thought. =)~