How can RCs and Protestants reconcile

[ARBITER01]

Don't know too many groups other than fringe cults and some sects of reformeds who claim sinless perfection of their flesh.

Was John lying here?,..

1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is begotten of God sinneth not; but he that was begotten of God keepeth himself, and the evil one toucheth him not.

Or is it maybe you misunderstand many of these passages and know nothing about sanctification?

 

[squint]

Well, anytime someone arguably refuses to acknowledge the born again experience in their life, that normally is a big flag as to them not being of Jesus.

I don't recall either sharing my 'experience' with you or requiring to be measured by your formula. I am on record here at the site as to my 'experience.'

Additionally, he is trying to make up his own requirements as to who can be a Christian and again, arguing against what Jesus said about it, which is no different from some denominations in that respect.

Scripture tells me different than it tells you, that's ALL.

We are talking more than anything about YOUR restrictions on the terms because of what you THINK you see and my seeing same terms as vastly more encompassing than what you see.

 

[ARBITER01]

By all means, please feel free to expound the eternal fate of those people who do not meet your formula for being 'born again.'



Sez you.

Romans 13:
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Galatians 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


Uh huh. Who is a wolf but that working that condemns those we are to love?

enjoy!

squint

If I want to fulfill the law of Moses, yes, but we are love our brother foremost. As it stands, I'm having a hard time believing you are my brother in Christ when you refuse the born again experience.

 

[squint]

Was John lying here?,..
Or is it maybe you misunderstand many of these passages and know nothing about sanctification?

I love it when people use that scripture...so tell me, were you ever a sinner? I didn't see John attach a past tense timeframe here:

"Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him."

Teaching the sinless perfection of the flesh is a fringe heresy.

 

[squint]

If I want to fulfill the law of Moses, yes, but we are love our brother foremost. As it stands, I'm having a hard time believing you are my brother in Christ when you refuse the born again experience.

You mean if I don't bow to your megalomania form of manipulation don't you? Do you think you are the only manipulator in christiandom? I have seen the most and the best of them face to face.

 

[ARBITER01]

I don't recall either sharing my 'experience' with you or requiring to be measured by your formula. I am on record here at the site as to my 'experience.'



Scripture tells me different than it tells you, that's ALL.

We are talking more than anything about YOUR restrictions on the terms because of what you THINK you see and my seeing same terms as vastly more encompassing than what you see.

We are not to take away or add to the word of GOD. Your "ideas" about what you think makes a Christian are not relevant in light of what Jesus states as a requirement,..

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Are you going to say Jesus was wrong here?

 

[ARBITER01]

I love it when people use that scripture...so tell me, were you ever a sinner? I didn't see John attach a past tense timeframe here:

"Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him."

Teaching the sinless perfection of the flesh is a fringe heresy.

Are you saying the passage of John's is false?

 

[ARBITER01]

You mean if I don't bow to your megalomania form of manipulation don't you? Do you think you are the only manipulator in christiandom? I have seen the most and the best of them face to face.

Big chip on your shoulder huh?

Don't think I haven't run into my share of people who want to use guilt as a tactic against them, ie manipulation.

 

[katholikos]

We are not to take away or add to the word of GOD.....

Then why is your Bible missing six books?

 

[squint]

We are not to take away or add to the word of GOD. Your "ideas" about what you think makes a Christian are not relevant in light of what Jesus states as a requirement,..

Are you going to say Jesus was wrong here?

Not at all. I adamantly do NOT see that the same way as YOU do and have explained 'why.'

A. All people are Gods children/offspring. This is 'commonly taught' within orthodoxy
(Proof texts included but not limited to - Deut. 14:1/Psalm 82:6/Acts 17:23-29)

B. All people BEING Gods children/offspring are OF HIS SPIRIT, Him being then our Heavenly Father.

Matthew 23:9
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

ALL people are born through a WATER SAC, this is without exception.

John 3:
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

No DEVIL on earth has ever been born of WATER and SPIRIT and THEY are NOT getting into heaven, EVER.

I also do not deny that SOME are called out in particular in this life unto JESUS. This does NOT preclude God from saving them ALL as you have also acknowledged at least as a 'possiblility.'

Romans 11:26-32 CLEARLY shows enemies of the Gospel being saved AFTER death.

enjoy!

squint

 

[ARBITER01]

Then why is your Bible missing six books?

Because they were not the word of GOD.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Then why is your Bible missing six books?

Do you know what the title and subject of this thread is?


Do you know that you official canon (not officially embraced until the 16th century and entirely unique to one denomination - yours) is "missing" some books and a Psalm according to the EO? And even more according to the OO? And their embrace is a whole lot older than yours....

And I disagree with you that the failure of the CC, EO and OO to agree on what is and is not acceptable in these DEUTERO books has any real significance in what has kept the CC and EO from re-uniting in nearly 1000 years or for Protestants and the CC in nearly 500 years.




.

 

[squint]

Big chip on your shoulder huh?

Don't think I haven't run into my share of people who want to use guilt as a tactic against them, ie manipulation.

I've already said I could care less what your impositions and formulas are. I do know that you use same to condemn your fellow man to (some undefined fate that you have not been forthcoming with even though asked once or twice now) on the basis of them being in NoNcompliance with your formula, whatever it is. You have not defined your formula yet either.

I'm completely willing to say that you probably have loved at some time in your life, that love is from God and you are therefore born of God and know God and God knows you AND I DON'T EVEN KNOW YOU. And I would afford this measure to any person of mankind.

We are measured ourselves in the way we measure to others. It is in my best interests to measure the BEST.

 

[ARBITER01]

Not at all. I adamantly do NOT see that the same way as YOU do and have explained 'why.'

A. All people are Gods children/offspring. This is 'commonly taught' within orthodoxy
(Proof texts included but not limited to - Deut. 14:1/Psalm 82:6/Acts 17:23-29)

B. All people BEING Gods children/offspring are OF HIS SPIRIT, Him being then our Heavenly Father.

Matthew 23:9
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

ALL people are born through a WATER SAC, this is without exception.

John 3:
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

No DEVIL on earth has ever been born of WATER and SPIRIT and THEY are NOT getting into heaven, EVER.

I also do not deny that SOME are called out in particular in this life unto JESUS. This does NOT preclude God from saving them ALL as you have also acknowledged at least as a 'possiblility.'

Romans 11:26-32 CLEARLY shows enemies of the Gospel being saved AFTER death.

enjoy!

squint

Sorry, but what you are describing is a form of universalism which in this sense denies that mankind is a fallen race and separated from GOD, which in turn denies the blood sacrifice requirement that Jesus gave for us.

 

[squint]

Are you saying the passage of John's is false?

Not at all. Sins are not counted against mankind. 2 Cor. 5:19

Sin is of the DEVIL, and NO your FLESH and MIND are not immune.

Paul openly admitted the PRESENCE of EVIL with himself. (Romans 7:21) and the fact that God put a DEVIL upon him. (2 Cor. 12:7)

In the light of these FACTS I can see TWO parties involved and ONE PARTY is not THE OTHER party. Get it?

Paul also taught that there are TWO VESSELS in the SAME LUMP called ME in Romans 9:19-21 and 2 Tim. 2:20-21

Paul also termed the SIN INDWELLING his flesh as NO LONGER I twice in Romans 7:17-20.

enjoy!

squint

 

[ARBITER01]

I've already said I could care less what your impositions and formulas are. I do know that you use same to condemn your fellow man to (some undefined fate that you have not been forthcoming with even though asked once or twice now) on the basis of them being in NoNcompliance with your formula, whatever it is. You have not defined your formula yet either.

I'm completely willing to say that you probably have loved at some time in your life, that love is from God and you are therefore born of God and know God and God knows you AND I DON'T EVEN KNOW YOU. And I would afford this measure to any person of mankind.

We are measured ourselves in the way we measure to others. It is in my best interests to measure the BEST.

I have no personal formula, only what Jesus put forth as a requirement for all of us, ye must be born again.

 

[ARBITER01]

Not at all. Sins are not counted against mankind. 2 Cor. 5:19

Sin is of the DEVIL, and NO your FLESH and MIND are not immune.

Paul openly admitted the PRESENCE of EVIL with himself. (Romans 7:21) and the fact that God put a DEVIL upon him. (2 Cor. 12:7)

In the light of these FACTS I can see TWO parties involved and ONE PARTY is not THE OTHER party. Get it?

Paul also taught that there are TWO VESSELS in the SAME LUMP called ME in Romans 9:19-21 and 2 Tim. 2:20-21

Paul also termed the SIN INDWELLING his flesh as NO LONGER I twice in Romans 7:17-20.

enjoy!

squint

Well you sure you wasn't saying he was lying because it sure sounded like you were saying he was lying?!?

 

[ARBITER01]

Later on, got some things to do

 

[squint]

Sorry, but what you are describing is a form of universalism which in this sense denies that mankind is a fallen race and separated from GOD,

I may very well deny your views on these matters. That doesn't mean my views are not legitimate and supportable.

But as to being separated from God...I would say that there is NO PLACE that is separated from God. God is OMNIpresent, remember?

Mankind IS separated in their own minds to PERCEIVING this, but that does not make it a FACT of separation.

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

which in turn denies the blood sacrifice requirement that Jesus gave for us.

Sorry, your logic does not follow. I believe that the sacrifice of His Body and His Resurrected Life is sufficient for all mankind. Jesus Himself represented Himself as The Saviour of the world. I happen to believe that He Is A Complete Success. You wanna hold that against me, or do you want to blame other people for Him not being ABLE?

enjoy!

squint

 

[katholikos]

Then why is your Bible missing six books?

Because they were not the word of GOD.

Says who? You?