How can Priests/Pastors forgive sins?

[GoldenKingGaze]

The knowledge from Scripture if it does not lead to a spiritual experience falls short of the mark. The Spirit breathed scriptures and was central in almost every Bible book. They experienced Him and so should we. Either dig deeper into your church and Bible or look for a better church.

 

[tz620q]

.the rcc has murdered untold thousands for stating the truth and the moment the religious political climate allows they will do so again .

Don't you see how hypocritical it is in a thread on forgiveness to beat this drum? Since you are here on this forum and not murdered, this obviously did not happen to you. So what has hardened your heart on this issue? Hate is the opposite of love and the barrier to any true forgiveness. Please seek God's love, wherever you find it and drop these hateful attitudes.

 

[Loren T.]

"And lo, I will be with you always, even unto the end of the age."

You know, speaking of things He said to people who physically walked with Him and stuff.

Your point is?

 

[Loren T.]

Lol. Really?!

John 20:23
23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

It's in black and white. Clear instructions from Jesus yet you choose not to believe the words of Our Lord!

21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

Did Jesus physically breath on you and give you these instructions? Where are these instructions given to believers after his ascension?

 

[Eloy Craft]

Your point is?

Why would God give the power to forgive to such a few at a given time and then remove it? Might as well not do it. What purpose would it have?

 

[Eloy Craft]

Seems like you're playing word games.

Jesus gave the right of forgiving sins to a whole room full of disciples, not Apostles, and you say that they are Apostles by virtue of the fact that they are sent out. They and seventy previous other disciples were also sent out, and that makes them de facto Apostles by your definition, despite not actually being referred to as Apostles, directly. Later, after both events, the Bible clearly spells out that there were still only eleven Apostles left, and Matthias was appointed to be the twelfth. It says nothing about them being a special kind of Apostle. It makes no mention, ever, of there being other Apostles until Paul's conversion. Now you can play word games with the definition of an Apostle, but absolutely all evidence points to the fact that Christ gave that anointing to a room full of disciples, not just Apostles, and if a priest tells you differently, then it only reinforces my earlier statement that priests love to take what was given to the many and restrict it to the few (themselves). Every pagan religion has its priests that revel in their own esoteric knowledge and power, but Christ came to give his grace, power and forgiveness to the common man.

You were shown biblical proof of the twelves special mission. You deny it is there. What does this scripture mean?

Revelation 21:14
And the wall of the city has twelve foundations, and on them are the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

 

[Willie T]

Plain answer> They can't.

 

[thecolorsblend]

Your point is?

Was that “be with you always” promise also limited to the original audience who heard it?

Yes or no? Explain your answer.

 

[Eloy Craft]

Seems like you're playing word games.

Jesus gave the right of forgiving sins to a whole room full of disciples, not Apostles, and you say that they are Apostles by virtue of the fact that they are sent out. They and seventy previous other disciples were also sent out, and that makes them de facto Apostles by your definition, despite not actually being referred to as Apostles, directly. Later, after both events, the Bible clearly spells out that there were still only eleven Apostles left, and Matthias was appointed to be the twelfth. It says nothing about them being a special kind of Apostle. It makes no mention, ever, of there being other Apostles until Paul's conversion. Now you can play word games with the definition of an Apostle, but absolutely all evidence points to the fact that Christ gave that anointing to a room full of disciples, not just Apostles, and if a priest tells you differently, then it only reinforces my earlier statement that priests love to take what was given to the many and restrict it to the few (themselves). Every pagan religion has its priests that revel in their own esoteric knowledge and power, but Christ came to give his grace, power and forgiveness to the common man.

Matthew 10:1
Then Jesus summoned his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to cure every disease and every sickness.

Matthew 10:2
These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon, also known as Peter, and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John;

Mark 3:14
And he appointed twelve, whom he also named apostles, to be with him, and to be sent out to proclaim the message,


Luke 6:13
And when day came, he called his disciples and chose twelve of them, whom he also named apostles:

 

[Barney2.0]

They have the authority to declare your forgiveness while God does the actual work of forgiving your sin.

 

[Eloy Craft]

Plain answer> They can't.

That is about the extent of the denial.

 

[Loren T.]

Why would God give the power to forgive to such a few at a given time and then remove it? Might as well not do it. What purpose would it have?

He didn't. After looking further into this verse, the implication is that ,Actually they were only declaring what God was doing.
Do you see the apostles forgiving sins anywhere else? What did they say at penecost?
Repent ye, and be immersed every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins” (Acts 2:41)

 

[Fish14]

Sorry that isn't the power Jesus breathed on the Apostles and then sent them into the world to do.

Mere humans forgiving sins is such an illogical option that it must be immediately rejected. Anyone else than Jesus as our Savior is a huge alarming red flag.

 

[ViaCrucis]

It's a little confusing to me to understand the process. Can someone explain this?

Coming at this from a Lutheran angle.

Christ gave His apostles the authority to forgive sin in John 20:23. The apostolic ministry is preserved in the pastorate, as the Apostles established bishops and presbyters to pastor the churches in their stead.

As such pastors speak and act with apostolic authority, in the name and stead of Jesus Christ, to pronounce forgiveness of sin.

It isn't the pastor who is doing the forgiveness, the forgiveness is from God, and the authority to forgive belongs to Jesus Christ; the pastor is acting as a servant of Christ, in the name and stead of Christ to pronounce forgiveness of sins.

When the pastor says "I forgive you" he is not speaking for himself, he is speaking in the name and by the authority of Jesus--it is God who forgives us, and our forgiveness is found alone in Jesus' all-sufficient atoning work on the cross.

This pastoral service is the Office of the Keys which Christ gave to the whole Church when He said to Peter, "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." (Matthew 16:19). While speaking to Peter, Peter is here instead representative of the whole--it is not to Peter only, but all the Apostles and to the Church as a whole (Matthew 18:18, John 20:23). The office of the keys is exercised through the pastorate, for the good of the Church. As Lutherans reject the notion of sacerdotalism, that pastors are given a special indelible grace which makes them in any way inherently different than lay Christians, that pastors exist as a kind of special priestly of Christian. The pastoral office is a vocation that comes from the Church for the good of the Church, as it is the Church which calls and ordains pastors. It is through this pastoral vocation, in the exercising of the apostolic ministry, the office of the keys, to preach the Word and administer the Sacraments; and therefore to pronounce the forgiveness of sins in Christ's name, authority, and stead.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Lost4words]

21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

Did Jesus physically breath on you and give you these instructions? Where are these instructions given to believers after his ascension?

Did the Apostles apoint Bishops and priests etc? Did they not carry on the tradition of the Apostles? Have you heard of Apostolic succession? Have you read the early church fathers?

 

[ViaCrucis]

Told to a specific group of people who physically walked with Jesus.

Also told to a specific group who physically walked with Jesus: "Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, and teaching them all which I have commanded."

If the apostolic ministry died with the apostles, then there is no preaching of the Gospel, no Sacraments, no Christianity.

So either the apostolic ministry has been retained in the Church, or it hasn't. The unanimous and historic teaching of the entire Church is that it has.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Hebrews 3:1
[ Moses a Servant, Christ a Son ] Therefore, brothers and sisters, holy partners in a heavenly calling, consider that Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession,

What part of the 12 apostles don't you get?

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

The 11's job description was to judge the 12 tribes of Israel. Not the job description of the church of Christ who is the foundation.

 

[Loren T.]

t isn't the pastor who is doing the forgiveness, the forgiveness is from God, and the authority to forgive belongs to Jesus Christ; the pastor is acting as a servant of Christ, in the name and stead of Christ to pronounce forgiveness of sins.

See, this is something totally different than forgiving sins. Any Christian can be a servant of Christ, and tell someone how to receive forgiveness. That is a far cry from a priest telling someone that HE forgives their sins.

 

[ViaCrucis]

See, this is something totally different than forgiving sins. Any Christian can be a servant of Christ, and tell someone how to receive forgiveness. That is a far cry from a priest telling someone that HE forgives their sins.

It's not about telling someone "how to receive forgiveness", it is telling someone their sins are forgiven. It is not some "new" forgiveness that originates from the person or power of the pastor; it is the word and power of Christ; that we are forgiven because God Himself has forgiven us, that is what happened on the cross. This we do, in fact, receive through Absolution as real, actual, material Word--God's own word, the holy and precious Gospel. And so our sins really are forgiven, because of what Christ has done, and what Christ has done is declared, spoken, and given really, actually here through Absolution. Even as it is given through the preaching of the Gospel, even as it is given through the waters of Holy Baptism, even as it is given through the bread and wine of the Holy Eucharist. This is the grace of God for us, the work of Christ for us, the crucified and risen Jesus for us.

-CryptoLutheran