How can one be tempted, yet without sin?

[catsandcoffee]

Hebrews 4:15 NLT This High Priest of ours understands our weaknesses, for he faced all of the same testings we do, yet he did not sin.

Can anyone here shed some light on this passage? How is it possible to be tempted, but without sin? For example, when someone is tempted to cheat on their spouse, isn't the temptation itself a sin? If we desire to steal, isn't the desire itself a sin? I don't understand how Jesus could be tempted but also free of sin.

Thanks

 

[“Paisios”]

Hebrews 4:15 NLT This High Priest of ours understands our weaknesses, for he faced all of the same testings we do, yet he did not sin.

Can anyone here shed some light on this passage? How is it possible to be tempted, but without sin? For example, when someone is tempted to cheat on their spouse, isn't the temptation itself a sin? If we desire to steal, isn't the desire itself a sin? I don't understand how Jesus could be tempted but also free of sin.

Thanks

I have never thought of temptation itself as sin, but rather the decision to take action in submission to that temptation. I think that an act of our will (even before or instead of physical action, based on teaching from the Sermon on the Mount) that is in opposition to God’s will is sin. Temptation, the desire of our own will, if rejected to follow God’s will, is not sin, but acts to His glory.

(At least, that is my understanding, though I stand open to correction...)

 

[Ken Rank]

Hebrews 4:15 NLT This High Priest of ours understands our weaknesses, for he faced all of the same testings we do, yet he did not sin.

Can anyone here shed some light on this passage? How is it possible to be tempted, but without sin? For example, when someone is tempted to cheat on their spouse, isn't the temptation itself a sin? If we desire to steal, isn't the desire itself a sin? I don't understand how Jesus could be tempted but also free of sin.

Thanks

Sin is the breaking of commandments (1 John 3:4) and Yeshua simply broke no commandments. One can have the world laid out before you, be tested with it... but if one doesn't chose it over God, there is no sin.

 

[catsandcoffee]

I have never thought of temptation itself as sin, but rather the decision to take action in submission to that temptation. I think that an act of our will (even before or instead of physical action, based on teaching from the Sermon on the Mount) that is in opposition to God’s will is sin. Temptation, the desire of our own will, if rejected to follow God’s will, is not sin, but acts to His glory.

(At least, that is my understanding, though I stand open to correction...)

Thank you for the reply. It is difficult for me to separate the thought aspect from the action aspect. For example, Matthew 5:21-22 "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' But I tell you anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment."

It feels like Jesus is saying that anger itself is a sin, since it is subject to judgment. Also the verse about a man looking lustfully at a woman, committing adultery with her in his heart.

I feel that anger and lust are temptations, so it seems like the temptation itself is a sin. Hmm...

 

[“Paisios”]

Thank you for the reply. It is difficult for me to separate the thought aspect from the action aspect. For example, Matthew 5:21-22 "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' But I tell you anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment."

It feels like Jesus is saying that anger itself is a sin, since it is subject to judgment. Also the verse about a man looking lustfully at a woman, committing adultery with her in his heart.

I feel that anger and lust are temptations, so it seems like the temptation itself is a sin. Hmm...

It is not so much separating the thought from the action, as making a decision even before committing the action. For example, seeing an attractive person and recognizing his or beauty could be a temptation, but lust (the sin) comes when you start to even think that you might want sexual relations outside of marriage...at that point you have made a decision (even subconsciously) to engage that sin, even though you haven’t done anything physical yet. If you recognize their beauty, reject immediately any thoughts (and ideally even manage to recognize beauty without the sexual desire even rising, as impossible as that may sound) of sexual desire in consistency with God’s will, then there is temptation but no sin.

 

[Shane R]

"But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death." (James 1:14-15)

There is a variant reading to the Matthew passage that adds some clarity, "whoever is angry with his brother without a cause." I believe this is a valid reading in keeping with the theme Jesus is developing, as he goes on to intensify the consequences of anger three times. One of the main messages of general epistles is to persevere through temptation: it is a theme of Peter, James, Jude, and John.

 

[Dave-W]

The idea that temptation is itself sinful is a legalism that our Lord condemned in the Pharisees. He was speaking to Jews with a Hebraic mindset that separated the thought and the act.

As to the Matt 5 verse, that has been badly reinterpreted to conflate thought and deed. He was talking about coveting ( same Greek word as lust) which is more than just thinking or desiring; it is obsessing and idolizing.

 

[catsandcoffee]

Thank you all. I'm starting to understand a little bit more... I still need to meditate on this a bit...
I am new to these forums, and wow, how awesome it is to have thoughtful replies so quickly

 

[AlexDTX]

Hebrews 4:15 NLT This High Priest of ours understands our weaknesses, for he faced all of the same testings we do, yet he did not sin.

Can anyone here shed some light on this passage? How is it possible to be tempted, but without sin? For example, when someone is tempted to cheat on their spouse, isn't the temptation itself a sin? If we desire to steal, isn't the desire itself a sin? I don't understand how Jesus could be tempted but also free of sin.

Thanks

The temptation is the product of the tempter, Satan, not Jesus. However, Jesus said if you lust in your heart, you have committed adultery. Temptation can only succeed if their is a desire in the heart. But desire is not sin in of itself. Jesus was definitely hungry, for example, while fasting for 40 days in the wilderness. What would have made his desire to eat conducive to yielding to Satan's offer to eat required him dwelling on his hunger. Lust is desire amplified by imagination dwelling on the desired object. Jesus did not dwell on his hunger, although he knew he was hungry. Instead he dwelt upon the Word of God which is why he was able to respond to Satan with "Man shall not live upon bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God."

For a single man, the desire for marriage and procreation is God given and natural. Lust develops when that single man dwells upon the desire to the point of obsession. This is why we are to keep every thought captive that is obedient to Christ and to cast out with a readiness of revenge every thought that exalts itself above the knowledge of God. This is why we are to be content in all our circumstances, knowing that God has our lives in his hand and we can trust that He knows what is best for us.

 

[eleos1954]

Hebrews 4:15 NLT This High Priest of ours understands our weaknesses, for he faced all of the same testings we do, yet he did not sin.

Can anyone here shed some light on this passage? How is it possible to be tempted, but without sin? For example, when someone is tempted to cheat on their spouse, isn't the temptation itself a sin? If we desire to steal, isn't the desire itself a sin? I don't understand how Jesus could be tempted but also free of sin.

Thanks

You kind of answered your own question. When desire is added to it then it certainly can be. "motivation" - Jesus "desire" (temptation) was from God and was pure and Holy. No Jesus did not sin. It is written, it is written ... He quoted Holy scripture.

Desire - a strong feeling of wanting to have something or wishing for something to happen

ie. - What is motivating the desire? - Is the "desire" according to Gods word?

1 John 2

16 For all that is in the world — the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life — is not from the Father but from the world.

James 1:14

But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire.

 

[catsandcoffee]

The temptation is the product of the tempter, Satan, not Jesus. However, Jesus said if you lust in your heart, you have committed adultery. Temptation can only succeed if their is a desire in the heart. But desire is not sin in of itself. Jesus was definitely hungry, for example, while fasting for 40 days in the wilderness. What would have made his desire to eat conducive to yielding to Satan's offer to eat required him dwelling on his hunger. Lust is desire amplified by imagination dwelling on the desired object. Jesus did not dwell on his hunger, although he knew he was hungry. Instead he dwelt upon the Word of God which is why he was able to respond to Satan with "Man shall not live upon bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God."

For a single man, the desire for marriage and procreation is God given and natural. Lust develops when that single man dwells upon the desire to the point of obsession. This is why we are to keep every thought captive that is obedient to Christ and to cast out with a readiness of revenge every thought that exalts itself above the knowledge of God. This is why we are to be content in all our circumstances, knowing that God has our lives in his hand and we can trust that He knows what is best for us.

So what you are saying is,
that a temptation simply leads to a desire,
the desire itself is not sin, but is the bridge from temptation to sin
so the desire itself is dangerous, not because of itself, but because of what it leads to?

 

[Tree of Life]

Hebrews 4:15 NLT This High Priest of ours understands our weaknesses, for he faced all of the same testings we do, yet he did not sin.

Can anyone here shed some light on this passage? How is it possible to be tempted, but without sin? For example, when someone is tempted to cheat on their spouse, isn't the temptation itself a sin? If we desire to steal, isn't the desire itself a sin? I don't understand how Jesus could be tempted but also free of sin.

Thanks

Scripture teaches that the desire to sin is, itself, sin. Jesus never had a desire to sin. But he was presented with all kinds of opportunities to sin, he lived a human life in a fallen world, and was tested in every way that we are.

 

[AlexDTX]

So what you are saying is,
that a temptation simply leads to a desire,
the desire itself is not sin, but is the bridge from temptation to sin
so the desire itself is dangerous, not because of itself, but because of what it leads to?

No, I am not saying that. I am saying temptation depends on desire and that desire has to be magnified by obsessive dwelling on the desire. If you have no desire there can not be temptation. This is the power of the cross in a believer's life. We die to self, which means we die to our desires so we do not dwell on them. The desires remain, of course, but we trust God to meet our needs, because he knows our needs before we even have needs.

 

[catsandcoffee]

Thank you. I will continue to chew on this. You guys are awesome

 

[discipler7]

Thank you for the reply. It is difficult for me to separate the thought aspect from the action aspect. For example, Matthew 5:21-22 "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' But I tell you anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment."

It feels like Jesus is saying that anger itself is a sin, since it is subject to judgment. Also the verse about a man looking lustfully at a woman, committing adultery with her in his heart.

I feel that anger and lust are temptations, so it seems like the temptation itself is a sin. Hmm...

.
Yes, both evil/satanic thoughts in the heart(eg immoral lust) and evil/satanic deeds with the eyes and limbs(eg adultery, rape, incest, etc) are sins.
... The difference is that the former sins result in the sinners being sent to hell when they die or leave this earth(= the need for Christ at JOHN.3:16) while the latter sins result in the sinners/evildoers being cursed by God into a sad and short life on earth.(= the need for God's Law at EXODUS.20 & DEUT.28:15, 1COR.5:5 & 11:30, 1JOHN.5:16)
... The former sins are involuntary and inherited by all humans through Adam's Original Sin/Satanism = an inborn sin/satanism.(ROMANS.5:12, LEV.17:11, HEB.9:22) The latter sins are voluntary and the fruit of the former sins(= seeds), ie before sinners commit adultery, first they immorally lusted at another in their heart, eg King David and sexy Bathsheba/ /Uriah, her husband.

This was how Jesus Christ described fallen men who commit sins/evil-deeds - JOHN.8:44, MATTHEW.16:23 & 23:27, MARK.7:21(1JOHN.3:8).

 

[miamited]

Hi catsandcoffee,

I think the easiest to understand, and best analogy would be this:

A starving man comes upon a table filled with what appear to be delicious delicacies. However, each offering is coated and filled with rat poison. Whether the man eats of anything on the table determines whether he will live or die.

So, here we see a man standing before this table of delicious looking delicacies and is sorely tempted, due to his great hunger, to reach out and begin eating what is offered. He struggles with that temptation and his mouth literally waters over the food. But in the end, understanding that his eating any of the food which would surely quench his immediate hunger, also means that he would be killing himself, he turns and walks away without eating.

Such a man would be surely tempted, but did not sin.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

 

[Tree of Life]

Hi catsandcoffee,

I think the easiest to understand, and best analogy would be this:

A starving man comes upon a table filled with what appear to be delicious delicacies. However, each offering is coated and filled with rat poison. Whether the man eats of anything on the table determines whether he will live or die.

So, here we see a man standing before this table of delicious looking delicacies and is sorely tempted, due to his great hunger, to reach out and begin eating what is offered. He struggles with that temptation and his mouth literally waters over the food. But in the end, understanding that his eating any of the food which would surely quench his immediate hunger, also means that he would be killing himself, he turns and walks away without eating.

Such a man would be surely tempted, but did not sin.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

The problem with this analogy is that the desire for food is a natural desire which is appropriate for creatures to have. But sinful human beings have sinful desires. So the desire to have sex with a woman who is not your wife is lust. Jesus did not lust after women. The desire to harm another person could be called hatred, anger, or rage. Jesus did not succumb to these heart dispositions.

 

[Hank77]

Hebrews 4:15 NLT This High Priest of ours understands our weaknesses, for he faced all of the same testings we do, yet he did not sin.

Can anyone here shed some light on this passage? How is it possible to be tempted, but without sin? For example, when someone is tempted to cheat on their spouse, isn't the temptation itself a sin? If we desire to steal, isn't the desire itself a sin? I don't understand how Jesus could be tempted but also free of sin.

Thanks

Because it is just as scripture says, being tempted is not sin. You don't tempt yourself, it is an outside force that you are not in control of. How you respond is what determines whether you have sinned or not.

 

[miamited]

The problem with this analogy is that the desire for food is a natural desire which is appropriate for creatures to have. But sinful human beings have sinful desires. So the desire to have sex with a woman who is not your wife is lust. Jesus did not lust after women. The desire to harm another person could be called hatred, anger, or rage. Jesus did not succumb to these heart dispositions.

TOL,

Well, that's debatable. According to the Scriptures, man has a natural sin nature and so the desire to sin would likely also be a 'natural' desire. Yes, there is also lust, which is really nothing more than a desire. Some will feed that desire and some won't. Yes, there is hatred and anger and rage, but these are all merely symptoms of 'desire'. We are tempted to hate when someone does something that, for whatever reason, we don't agree is right for them to do. We are similarly tempted to anger and rage because of this same natural desire that we have when people do things that we don't think is right for them to do. We desire to hate them and believe ourselves to be righteous in such desire because of something that they have done that we perceive they had no right to do.

Finally, this discussion, as far as I understand, was never about the kinds of desires or temptations that we might have. It was merely about how one could be tempted and yet not sin. My analogy works fine for that. If you'd rather use an analogy that is more coarse, then feel free to make the table laden with poisonous food, a table upon which lay all sorts of men or women that you'd like to have relations with.

BTW, I noticed that you wrote in a previous thread that the mere temptation to sin, is sin. Can I ask on what Scripture you base that understanding?

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

 

[Tree of Life]

BTW, I noticed that you wrote in a previous thread that the mere temptation to sin, is sin. Can I ask on what Scripture you base that understanding?

When did I say this?