How can Jesus be the Savior of the world?

[nasa1]

1st Timothy 4:10 says that Jesus is the Savior of all men, especially of those that believe.

According to the Calvinist philosophy, Jesus died for all, but His atonement is limted to the church - those predestinated to be saved. How, then, could Jesus be the Savior of all mankind? A Savior, saves.


According to the Arminean philosphy, Jesus died for all, but only those that recieve Him will be saved. How, then, could Jesus be the Savior of all men? A Savior saves people. How could He fail?


If Jesus is the Savior of all mankind, then isn't all mankind saved? Doesn't the Bible say that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us - while we were dead in our sins, Christ made us alive with Him - even before we believed? So, then, weren't all men saved before the foundation of the world, as Jesus was the Lamb slain before the world was founded?


NASA

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Jesus did what no man could and thus gave us a chance for eternal life with God. Before Jesus we would of had to of been perfect to get to Heaven. Kind of like pulling a camel through the eye of a needle.

 

[Epiphoskei]

According to the Calvinist philosophy, Jesus died for all, but His atonement is limted to the church - those predestinated to be saved. How, then, could Jesus be the Savior of all mankind? A Savior, saves.


According to the Arminean philosphy, Jesus died for all, but only those that recieve Him will be saved. How, then, could Jesus be the Savior of all men? A Savior saves people. How could He fail?

First of all, I would like to applaud you heartily for actually getting the Calvinistic doctrine of limited atonement pretty close to correct.

Two solutions to the seemingly universalist language that often appears in the scripture are thus:
1) we could be speaking in terms of the jew/gentile distinction. i.e., all means from all nations, irregardless of being jew or gentile. This often is a reasonable explanation, but I don't think so in this case.
2) we could be speaking in terms of what he can do, as opposed to what he actually did do. A savior can be said to be a savior if he actually saves. But it is not impossible to say that a man is a savior if he can save, particularly if he is the only salvation, i.e., he is the only possible savior for anyone. I'm honestly not too sure if I like this solution either.

However, inasmuch as the scripture says that He is the savior of all and yet not all are saved, I am comforted in the fact that it works out somehow.

 

[AvgJoe]

1st Timothy 4:10 says that Jesus is the Savior of all men, especially of those that believe.

According to the Calvinist philosophy, Jesus died for all, but His atonement is limted to the church - those predestinated to be saved. How, then, could Jesus be the Savior of all mankind? A Savior, saves.


According to the Arminean philosphy, Jesus died for all, but only those that recieve Him will be saved. How, then, could Jesus be the Savior of all men? A Savior saves people. How could He fail?


If Jesus is the Savior of all mankind, then isn't all mankind saved? Doesn't the Bible say that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us - while we were dead in our sins, Christ made us alive with Him - even before we believed? So, then, weren't all men saved before the foundation of the world, as Jesus was the Lamb slain before the world was founded?


NASA

On many occasions, Jesus Himself, said that everyone will not be saved.

 

[AngelusSax]

And on other occassions, we have it written that every knee WILL bend, every tongue WILL confess Jesus as Lord...

I'm not a universalist. I do believe some will be lost by their own rejection of Christ and therefore their own condemnation (he who does not believe stands condemned alreadY). I am merely saying that the idea that all will truly be saved by the power of Jesus is an idea that isn't completely made up sans Scripture.

That's both the beauty and the problem of Scripture. You can take any issue--even salvation--and make a case for almost any position on that issue from something somewhere in the Bible.

The key, I believe, is to look for the Truth behind the truths, that is, God. All are saved. Some are lost. Shellfish are bad. All food is clean.

Perhaps it isn't that one is right and the other is wrong/no longer applicable. Perhaps it's that both are true, and the only thing that can make any sense is to trust in the God behind it all.

So yeah, Jesus can be the Savior of the world. And He is. And world means world. Yet some will, I believe, turn away from that salvation and choose to live eternally without God, for whatever reason. He saved them, but he's not forcing them to accept their salvation.

That's as close to a concrete answer as I can come to.

 

[JonF]

According to the Calvinist philosophy, Jesus died for all, but His atonement is limted to the church - those predestinated to be saved. How, then, could Jesus be the Savior of all mankind? A Savior, saves.

The standard Calvinist interpretation from this is that the “all” means all kinds of men. I don’t particularly like this interpretation because it seems to go against the context of the scripture, so here is my take:

That men and mankind are both redeemed by Christ. We often see two types of judgment in the bible, corporate and personal.

Nations are judged, families are judged, and various groups of people are judged throughout the bible this is corporate judgment. We also see individuals judged. When original sin entered the world humans were corporately and individually condemned as sinners. Thus Christ has died for, and saved “all men” in the sense that humanity as a whole is no longer convicted of sin.

**expects flack from his Calvinist brethren**

 

[nasa1]

Jon: why do people still go to hell?

nasa

 

[dies-l]

Jon: why do people still go to hell?

nasa

I am not 100% sure what I believe about Hell. What I think I believe is that Hell is just the absence of God (both in life and after physical death). Heaven, on the other hand, is the eternal presence of God. So, I believe that the reason that some people don't go to heaven (or go to hell, if you prefer) is that God respects our right to make our own choices. What makes heaven beautiful for one person could be the same thing that makes it downright dreadful to another. If you love God, you will want to spend eternity worshiping Him and being in His presence. If you hate God, you will be repulsed by this idea. I don't believe that God forces us to choose to love Him, and if we choose not to, I believe that He respects our choice and does not force us to be in His presence. That's my take, but I would be interested in hearing others.

 

[JonF]

Jon: why do people still go to hell?

nasa

Because we have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God. I believe humanity in its entirety is no longer a fallen race, but one that will eventually be redeemed in glory. But this doesn’t mean that every individual human is or will be redeemed or that every individual human will go to heaven. Total depravity still effects everyone.

 

[Armistead]

1st Timothy 4:10 says that Jesus is the Savior of all men, especially of those that believe.

Is a verse that gives those that preach eternal torment problems. It denotes that Christ saved all men, but believers receive special treatment.

Imagine how someone in hell that has never heard the gospel feels as he cooks away for eternity. Most Christians will say God has a "way" of dealing with these people that will be fair...but that isn't what the bible says. The bible is clear all get to heaven through Christ.
Throughout humanity...hundreds of millions never heard the gospel. I take it when Christ said those words..no one gets into heaven except through him, took effect when he spoke them. However, only people near to him heard them and it would be long until the bible was written. What about the few million that didn't hear then and died? How do they get to heaven. Do they get a free pass...no...they get into heaven through Christ..he died for all man. There is no other way.

The doctrine "age of accountability" is not biblical and can't be found in the bible. It denotes that children get a pass due to their lack of being able to understand. Would it not be better that all children die early, so heaven would be assured. Just go to a pre-school and look at those beautiful faces..According to most, the majority of them will end up burning in an eternal hell.

Millions that aren't children never understood. Millions are born into nations that they never had the chance.
Children don't get a pass. They get into heaven through Christ.

At best, hell is a process that will reconcile those that haven't accepted Christ. I agree, some may agree to
reject God and remain in hell for a long time.

I don't know how it can be called a second death, when billions would still be alive and toasting.

 

[Shredhead]

Jesus is the Saviour of all mankind , however , He says He stands at the door & knocks , we have to open the door . If we choose not to open the door , this doesn't mean He failed , it means we chose not to .

 

[AngelusSax]

I don't know how it can be called a second death, when billions would still be alive and toasting

The "second death" has little to do with any physical dying. The physical death is past, and the second death is a spiritual one, one that is continual in nature due to the complete lack of the presence of God.

At least, that's the nearest to accurate I can come up with. I may be wrong about that though.

 

[JonF]

1st Timothy 4:10 says that Jesus is the Savior of all men, especially of those that believe.

Is a verse that gives those that preach eternal torment problems. It denotes that Christ saved all men, but believers receive special treatment.

Imagine how someone in hell that has never heard the gospel feels as he cooks away for eternity. Most Christians will say God has a "way" of dealing with these people that will be fair...but that isn't what the bible says. The bible is clear all get to heaven through Christ.
Throughout humanity...hundreds of millions never heard the gospel. I take it when Christ said those words..no one gets into heaven except through him, took effect when he spoke them. However, only people near to him heard them and it would be long until the bible was written. What about the few million that didn't hear then and died? How do they get to heaven. Do they get a free pass...no...they get into heaven through Christ..he died for all man. There is no other way.

The doctrine "age of accountability" is not biblical and can't be found in the bible. It denotes that children get a pass due to their lack of being able to understand. Would it not be better that all children die early, so heaven would be assured. Just go to a pre-school and look at those beautiful faces..According to most, the majority of them will end up burning in an eternal hell.

Millions that aren't children never understood. Millions are born into nations that they never had the chance.
Children don't get a pass. They get into heaven through Christ.

At best, hell is a process that will reconcile those that haven't accepted Christ. I agree, some may agree to
reject God and remain in hell for a long time.

I don't know how it can be called a second death, when billions would still be alive and toasting.

This post assumes man is owed heaven; and that God wouldn’t be justified in sending us all to hell. These are contrary to Christian Theology.

As for children, the bible tells us that David’s child went to heaven.

 

[Epiphoskei]

As for children, the bible tells us that David’s child went to heaven.

Strictly speaking, it says that David said "I shall go to Him; he shall not return to me." This doesn't necesarraly mean heaven, it could just mean the grave, the place where dead people go. As in "I will die; he will not become alive again." This fits a jewish pre-second-temple-period mindset well.

 

[JonF]

but violates context…

 

[GenemZ]

1st Timothy 4:10 says that Jesus is the Savior of all men, especially of those that believe.

According to the Calvinist philosophy, Jesus died for all, but His atonement is limted to the church - those predestinated to be saved. How, then, could Jesus be the Savior of all mankind? A Savior, saves.

Think of the entire world as being fatally diseased.

Jesus is the only cure for the disease. He is the cure of all men. Not one man who takes this cure will not be healed of the disease.

That does not mean all will accept the cure. But he is the cure for the whole world. Hence, Savior/cure of the whole world.

According to the Arminean philosphy, Jesus died for all, but only those that recieve Him will be saved. How, then, could Jesus be the Savior of all men? A Savior saves people. How could He fail?

Same thing again. Jesus is the only cure. That does not mean all will accept the cure.

Being Savior of the whole world means that if everyone in the world would turn to Christ? They all would be saved. He is the cure. He is the Savior.

If Jesus is the Savior of all mankind, then isn't all mankind saved?

All mankind was saved from what prevents them from being born again, as far as what Jesus accomplished on the Cross. He is the cure, i.e., Savior.

It says he is the Savior of the whole world. He is the answer to all men's problem with sin.

A doctor can present a cure that will work for all men, but some will refuse because they hate the doctor personally. The doctor saved all. But not all want to be saved.

Doesn't the Bible say that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us - while we were dead in our sins, Christ made us alive with Him - even before we believed?

That is speaking of the point of salvation, of being made spiritually alive.

Before we could be made spiritually alive, Jesus died for our sins. Like before a surgeon can cut you open, he must clean the area medicinally. While we were yet dead and on the operating table, Jesus destroyed all the bacteria that would destroy us if he cut us open. He places us on life support (common grace) so we can be made conscious as to agree to the operation. If we refuse, he will not operate and bring us to life spiritually.

Just before we believed we were spiritually dead in our sins. Once saved, we were made spiritually alive. Born again! We wake up in the recovery room.

So, then, weren't all men saved before the foundation of the world, as Jesus was the Lamb slain before the world was founded?

Its like saying all men are in debt financially. But? All are out of debt because John Hettelberp has deposited in escrow for all, all the money they need.

He is all men's financial savior. But? Some men hate John Hettelberp. He saved them, but they refuse his salvation.

In that sense Jesus is the Savior of all men. For no man will be with excuse at the final judgment. They will not be going to the Lake of Fire because of something Jesus failed to do.

If Jesus failed to secure what was needed for their salvation? Not dying for their sins? Then they would be with excuse. But he saved them all. They refused the cure. They wanted to use other means to try and be cured. Or, even thought their disease was cool.

In Christ, GeneZ
​

 

[Armistead]

Strictly speaking, it says that David said "I shall go to Him; he shall not return to me." This doesn't necesarraly mean heaven, it could just mean the grave, the place where dead people go. As in "I will die; he will not become alive again." This fits a jewish pre-second-temple-period mindset well.

exactly,

but I believe all children go to heaven, not because of lack of accountability, but through Christ..no one enters heaven except through Christ.

If accountability were correct, then it would be better off that all children die to assure them of heaven, instead of letting them grow up and most go to hell due to the way they are brought up.

It almost sickens me when a bunch of children die, such as a bombing in Iraq and a Christian stands up and says,
at least they will be in heaven now, instead of growing up muslim and end up in hell.

My belief in universal salvation did not just happen. It took years of study, debate, ect. It also gets into many other doctrines, such as the fall of man. I was hellfire and damnation for most of my life, until I took time to study it. In the end, I could argue both with effect, but I came to the conclusion that UR won the day for me considering other doctrines. I actually started questioning eternal hell over 20 years ago while in bible
college and a Ind. Baptist college at that. When studying hell from a perspective of world history, culture and in the original greek and hebrew, I saw obvious flaws in the teaching then. The Catholic themselves better interpreted the bible regarding this, even though
I consider most of their doctrine flawed. I'm probably as much baptist as I am Catholic. I guess my denomination would be a Ind. Cathobaptist.

I don't believe mankind all deserved eternal hell. I hate
that doctrine..." I'm a dirty sinner with no worth and should go to hell just for being born".

That suggest God, knowing before he created man, knew that most of mankind would be in hell, but created anyway. My belief in UR stems to how I connect it to the fall of man. That God ordained that fall of man. Another topic, another day.

 

[dies-l]

exactly,

but I believe all children go to heaven, not because of lack of accountability, but through Christ..no one enters heaven except through Christ.

If accountability were correct, then it would be better off that all children die to assure them of heaven, instead of letting them grow up and most go to hell due to the way they are brought up.

It almost sickens me when a bunch of children die, such as a bombing in Iraq and a Christian stands up and says,
at least they will be in heaven now, instead of growing up muslim and end up in hell.

My belief in universal salvation did not just happen. It took years of study, debate, ect. It also gets into many other doctrines, such as the fall of man. I was hellfire and damnation for most of my life, until I took time to study it. In the end, I could argue both with effect, but I came to the conclusion that UR won the day for me considering other doctrines. I actually started questioning eternal hell over 20 years ago while in bible
college and a Ind. Baptist college at that. When studying hell from a perspective of world history, culture and in the original greek and hebrew, I saw obvious flaws in the teaching then. The Catholic themselves better interpreted the bible regarding this, even though
I consider most of their doctrine flawed. I'm probably as much baptist as I am Catholic. I guess my denomination would be a Ind. Cathobaptist.

I don't believe mankind all deserved eternal hell. I hate
that doctrine..." I'm a dirty sinner with no worth and should go to hell just for being born".

That suggest God, knowing before he created man, knew that most of mankind would be in hell, but created anyway. My belief in UR stems to how I connect it to the fall of man. That God ordained that fall of man. Another topic, another day.

Would I be correct in assuming that you do not believe in free will? If not, how would you reconcile this with universalism? It would seem to me that universalism says that God forces all people to choose to spend eternity with Him (i.e., heaven), whether they want to or not. Please explain.

 

[BrotherDave]

Salvation is available to all who love God anywhere in the entire world. The problem is no one will love God the way He defines love (I John 2:3, John 14:24, Gal 3:10) until after He saves them. He only saves those chosen before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4-13 ). So, everyone in the world will not be saved.

Before salvation in our body and soul we lust after sin. It is our nature. God tells us there are non righteous (Rom 3:10, Ecc 7:20) our hearts are wicked (Jeremiah 17:9, Mark 7:21-23, Ps 58:3). The wicked will not seek God (Psalm 10:4) because we are dead in sin (Eph 2:2-5, Ezekiel 18:20). We have all gone astray (Psalm 14:3). We also know that many are called but few are chosen (Matt 22:14) and that the gate to destruction (Hell) is wide and many will enter it (Matt 7:13). So, if the way of man is right in his own eyes (Prov 21:2) and our hearts are evil, then how can we choose and live in accordance to God’s law as He says we will if we love him?

Thankfully, in spite of man’s rebellion and total lack of real desire to turn to God, God decided that He would save a people for Himself (John 6:37-38). We read in Matthew 1:21 “And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.” His people are all those who were given to Christ by the Father (Ephesians 1:3-5). In John 17, Jesus is praying, and He says in verse 9: “I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.” Jesus describes “them” in verse 2 of John 17: “As thou hast given him power over all flesh that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

“Jesus is the only cure” - True. “That does not mean all will accept the cure.”
The issue with this is that you are saying someone has to do something to become saved. The moment we put salvation dependant upon an act or decision we must make we are taking the glory from God because you are saying that we, as a living sin cursed spiritually dead human being made the decision to change our spiritual reality. We somehow give God permission to give us a new soul when we are ready. This is not trusting entirely in God. God’s will is perfect. If we trust Him we should wait for Him to save us (Psalm 62:1, 5, Proverbs 20:22, Psalm 25:15) which He will do if our name is in the Lambs Book.

God saves His elect through the hearing of His word (Romans 10:17). Wonderfully, that could be an unborn baby in his mother’s womb as she is hearing the gospel or an old hardened sinner on his death bed as he is hearing it. God can grant a deaf or mentally challenged person the spiritual ears to hear if they are in the presence of His word. But the decision is entirely Gods. That is why there is nothing more important than being “in” the gospel. This is also why the world will not end until it is “covered” by the gospel (Matt 24:14) so all His elect will hear it and be saved. We can take comfort knowing everyone He intends to save will be saved (John 10:5, John 6:37, John 10:28). Even with all the false gospels in the world today His elect will not be deceived (Matt 24:24) because once saved, we are Christ’s and His spirit witnesses with ours (Eph 3:1, 4:1, Ro 8).

We have to let God be true (Rom 3:4) and acknowledge that God has mercy only on those that He intends to (Rom 9:15). Souls are saved by His grace alone (Eph 2:8). Christ is the savior of all his people who are all over the world because their souls have been reborn(Titus 3), God gave them a new heart (Gal 4:6) in which they now love Him.

In Christ’s service,
Dave

 

[hypnotism]

1st Timothy 4:10 says that Jesus is the Savior of all men, especially of those that believe.

According to the Calvinist philosophy, Jesus died for all, but His atonement is limted to the church - those predestinated to be saved. How, then, could Jesus be the Savior of all mankind? A Savior, saves.


According to the Arminean philosphy, Jesus died for all, but only those that recieve Him will be saved. How, then, could Jesus be the Savior of all men? A Savior saves people. How could He fail?


If Jesus is the Savior of all mankind, then isn't all mankind saved? Doesn't the Bible say that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us - while we were dead in our sins, Christ made us alive with Him - even before we believed? So, then, weren't all men saved before the foundation of the world, as Jesus was the Lamb slain before the world was founded?


NASA

A Tribal God has promised his tribe that he will send them a Messiah to enable the Tribe to dominate the people of the world. Will any one other than the tribal members consider him to be a savior?