How can it be?

Christ_Faith

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This is my first thread so go easy on me ;) Well my question is actually a simple one. We humans started originally from ape like creatures but a common misconseption is we ARE apes. We were very close to apes, we are related but they are only our ancestors not us. Well lets start with a dolphin, it started as a dinasaur (according to the discovery channel) that was forced to the water, it slowly became a dolphin or so some scientists believe. Well this would imply it has been aorund millions of years longer than humans, yet although it is smart the capacity in its brain is not nearly as large as ours. I we used our whole brain some people think we could use telepathy, and we could learn everything on the planet and much much more. Exhausting the human brain would take up to 3 million years should we learn something every second of our life, btu taht is only if we could use 100% of our brain.

The difference imbetween human and animal is our consience, and our intelligence, an animal can kill another of its own kind for food and not care less, whereas if a human kills another in war the impact of what they just did would hit hard, so hard that some just freeze up until instinct finally kicks in. That is what animals run off of, instinct and survival of the fittest. Now we started from an ape like creature, we used tools but we did not only eat fruit we ate meat too. This is where something arises in my mind, we were able to eat meat, we killed rabbits and other rodents and ate them for protein. When another preditor might come to kill us we stood together as a group or just ran into a tree ( i am basing this off of what scientists believed on the discovery channel so criticize from other sources i am not a genius in what scientists think of evolution) we were clothed in fur just as any other mammal, we had thicker skin because we were still a primitive ape creature and it was still used to our advantage till we found clothing.

Why is it most of us lost our fur? Why is it if we were doing fine the way we were we lost that leathery skin and we lost that coat of fur making us have to make clothing? And why is it we of all animals grew cultivated brains? It seems as though these days we actually experiment on apes! Who are actually older than ourselves and who had the same chances to grow just as we did, yet they stayed in the same place? Frozen in the same intelligence they started with? Why is it we teach our ancestors sign language whereas they are older and have more years of "evolution" under their belt.

when our seconds in intelligence, dolphins, were all the way "evolved", we were still sort of a thing imbetween neanderthal and ape. so much longer later the dolphin remained at the intelligence of today, and we were building stone buildings, coming close to finding gunpowder, when we were stil nomads we already studied the stars and made primitive ways of keeping the time! We grew so quickly and its amazing how the other beasts of the earth stayed the way they were. My question is how is it possible that they stood still, that we grew coniensce with each year going by, we grew smarter and we grew to appreciate our own, we loved our children from the start and natrually taught them and carried them with us whereas other more older mammals thought of their children as something to beat upon and did not think anything of it!

The human brain is the most complex, most largest thing and it is always going to have its own mysteries. It is hard to imagine, even with the billions of years (which would give more time to our already older ape and mammal counterparts) that we could become what we have today, going from looking at the lights in the skys and thinking they were merely there, to learning everything from where their light comes from, what they are composed of, to their lifespan.
 

toff

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Christ_Faith said:
This is my first thread so go easy on me ;) Well my question is actually a simple one. We humans started originally from ape like creatures but a common misconseption is we ARE apes. We were very close to apes, we are related but they are only our ancestors not us. Well lets start with a dolphin, it started as a dinasaur (according to the discovery channel) that was forced to the water, it slowly became a dolphin or so some scientists believe. Well this would imply it has been aorund millions of years longer than humans, yet although it is smart the capacity in its brain is not nearly as large as ours. I we used our whole brain some people think we could use telepathy, and we could learn everything on the planet and much much more. Exhausting the human brain would take up to 3 million years should we learn something every second of our life, btu taht is only if we could use 100% of our brain.

Actually, it's not a misconception - we ARE apes. Biologically, we are primates, closely related to the chimp and the gorilla.

It's a myth that we don't use 100% of our brain. We do.

Christ_Faith said:
The difference imbetween human and animal is our consience, and our intelligence, an animal can kill another of its own kind for food and not care less, whereas if a human kills another in war the impact of what they just did would hit hard, so hard that some just freeze up until instinct finally kicks in. That is what animals run off of, instinct and survival of the fittest. Now we started from an ape like creature, we used tools but we did not only eat fruit we ate meat too. This is where something arises in my mind, we were able to eat meat, we killed rabbits and other rodents and ate them for protein. When another preditor might come to kill us we stood together as a group or just ran into a tree ( i am basing this off of what scientists believed on the discovery channel so criticize from other sources i am not a genius in what scientists think of evolution) we were clothed in fur just as any other mammal, we had thicker skin because we were still a primitive ape creature and it was still used to our advantage till we found clothing.
Pretty accurate...although 'morality' in non-human animals is rather a controversial field. Certainly, no attribute in humans has not been found in at least isolated incidents among animals.

Christ_Faith said:
Why is it most of us lost our fur? Why is it if we were doing fine the way we were we lost that leathery skin and we lost that coat of fur making us have to make clothing? And why is it we of all animals grew cultivated brains? It seems as though these days we actually experiment on apes! Who are actually older than ourselves and who had the same chances to grow just as we did, yet they stayed in the same place? Frozen in the same intelligence they started with? Why is it we teach our ancestors sign language whereas they are older and have more years of "evolution" under their belt.

We lost our fur for the same reason any adaptation happens...it was no longer useful in the environment we found ourselves in. Approximately, what happened was this...an ape-like being 'branched' into two different types...one who stayed in the trees, and later became chimpanzees, and one who instead ventured out onto the savannahs and plains...where a hairy covering is not an advantage - in fact, it's a disadvantage. So we 'lost' it.

Regarding our brains, and why they have evolved as much as they have...good question. There are numerous solutions suggested, but it's not something we can be sure of. I've read suggestions that our brains evolved to deal with language (which evolved in tandem), to deal with social interaction, to get more sex, and so forth.

Christ_Faith said:
when our seconds in intelligence, dolphins, were all the way "evolved", we were still sort of a thing imbetween neanderthal and ape. so much longer later the dolphin remained at the intelligence of today, and we were building stone buildings, coming close to finding gunpowder, when we were stil nomads we already studied the stars and made primitive ways of keeping the time! We grew so quickly and its amazing how the other beasts of the earth stayed the way they were. My question is how is it possible that they stood still, that we grew coniensce with each year going by, we grew smarter and we grew to appreciate our own, we loved our children from the start and natrually taught them and carried them with us whereas other more older mammals thought of their children as something to beat upon and did not think anything of it!

See above. We STILL don't know why our brains evolved so much more than any other animals. If you're interested, there is plenty of reading on the subject.

Christ_Faith said:
The human brain is the most complex, most largest thing and it is always going to have its own mysteries. It is hard to imagine, even with the billions of years (which would give more time to our already older ape and mammal counterparts) that we could become what we have today, going from looking at the lights in the skys and thinking they were merely there, to learning everything from where their light comes from, what they are composed of, to their lifespan.

It might be hard to imagine...but don't let the fact that you find it hard to imagine convince you that it didn't happen.
 
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LorentzHA

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Hi Welcome to CF. :)

Christ_Faith said:
we loved our children from the start and natrually taught them and carried them with us whereas other more older mammals thought of their children as something to beat upon and did not think anything of it!
What other mammals beat up on their children and do not think anything of it?

Christ_Faith said:
Why is it most of us lost our fur?
I sat behind a guy at a Cowboy's game- whose back looked like a rug, so "most" is the operative word. I really wish I did not have to shave my legs...I wonder why that is? I wonder how Eve shaved those legs, don't you?

My question is how is it possible that they stood still
"They" have not stood still.

Well this would imply it has been aorund millions of years longer than humans, yet although it is smart the capacity in its brain is not nearly as large as ours
The size of a brain has absolutely nothing to do with intellect. The Cereberal Cortex (superficial layer of gray matter) covering the white matter is where intellect is found and is the seat of "higher functions", such as memory and intellect. Brain sizes vary from 750 cc's to 2100 cc's and the ascending sizes do not represent intellect but rather body size. If intellect was a fuction of brain size we would be sending NFL players to Mars. ;)

Exhausting the human brain would take up to 3 million years should we learn something every second of our life, btu taht is only if we could use 100% of our brain.
We do use all of our brain, that is a myth that we only use 10%. :)

The difference imbetween human and animal is our consience
Humans are animals. Our Kingdom is Animalia. Our cells are classified as, animal cells, vs. plantae.
 
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LorentzHA

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Captain_Jack_Sparrow said:
One of the biggest myths floating around is this idea we don't use our brains close to 100%. I believe most of the evidence fom neuroscience is that we do.
You are right captain, you beat me to it:)! You posted this while I was typing.
 
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JohnR7

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LorentzHA said:
I wonder how Eve shaved those legs, don't you?
Maybe she used clam shells. Actually, Eden was known for it's gold and other metals that could be found there. In the stone age, they used a black rock that could be found around volcanos. I can not remember the name of it, but it would take a edge and you could get it sharp. But of course at the time of Adam and Eve, this would be the transition from the stone age to when they first began to use metal. Whoever could produce the hardest metal, would have the most high tech weapons. Then a group came along that tamed the horse and invented the wheel and the chariot was used for war. All the nations had to ban together to bring them down, and then Egypt adapted the chariot for their use. Solomon had a lot of chariots and horses so Isreal at that time was rather high tech and they did not have anyone that wanted to do battle with them.

Later on, the Romans advantage was their shield. They had up to 2000 soldiers that would lock their shield together to form a turtle defense. They had various formations that they could deploy very rapidly in a battle. People still study their military strategy today.
 
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toff

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JohnR7 said:
Maybe she used clam shells. Actually, Eden was known for it's gold and other metals that could be found there. In the stone age, they used a black rock that could be found around volcanos. I can not remember the name of it, but it would take a edge and you could get it sharp. But of course at the time of Adam and Eve, this would be the transition from the stone age to when they first began to use metal. Whoever could produce the hardest metal, would have the most high tech weapons. Then a group came along that tamed the horse and invented the wheel and the chariot was used for war. All the nations had to ban together to bring them down, and then Egypt adapted the chariot for their use. Solomon had a lot of chariots and horses so Isreal at that time was rather high tech and they did not have anyone that wanted to do battle with them.
Adam and Eve are fictional. Lorentzha was joking.
 
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LorentzHA

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toff said:
Actually, it's not a misconception - we ARE apes. Biologically, we are primates, closely related to the chimp and the gorilla.
Yes, good point.

Primates lemurs (Lemuridae, ring tail lemurs — Lemur, brown lemurs — Eulemur), marmosets (Callithrix jacchus — common marmoset), monkeys (Macaca — macaques, Pan troglodytes — chimpanzee, Papio — baboons, Saimiri sciureus — squirrel monkey), tamarins (Saguinus), vervets & man (Homo sapiens — modern man)

toff said:
Adam and Eve are fictional. Lorentzha was joking.
correct, but John is a literalist so he takes everything at surface value. :)
 
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trunks2k

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toff said:
Actually, it's not a misconception - we ARE apes. Biologically, we are primates, closely related to the chimp and the gorilla.

Actually, aren't we hominids? Apes being a seperate group, consisting of Gorillas and the like. I think the difference is that hominids are bi-pedal, while apes walk primarily on all fours.

From dictionary.com (easiest thing to look it up):

Hominid: A primate of the family Hominidae, of which Homo sapiens is the only extant species.

Ape: Any of various large, tailless Old World primates of the family Pongidae, including the chimpanzee, gorilla, gibbon, and orangutan.
 
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napajohn

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toff said:
We lost our fur for the same reason any adaptation happens...it was no longer useful in the environment we found ourselves in. Approximately, what happened was this...an ape-like being 'branched' into two different types...one who stayed in the trees, and later became chimpanzees, and one who instead ventured out onto the savannahs and plains...where a hairy covering is not an advantage - in fact, it's a disadvantage. So we 'lost' it.

See this is why evolution fails miserably in explaining things.."Natural selection" favors a hairless ape-like creature in the savannahs..yet all the other animals in the savannah have bodyhair..lion?yes..hyena?yes..yet they live and dominate the savannah..don't let the facts get in the way evos
storytelling is so much fun and sells better on the discovery channel..by the way what did hairless chimp do in the cold night?
 
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napajohn said:
See this is why evolution fails miserably in explaining things.."Natural selection" favors a hairless ape-like creature in the savannahs..yet all the other animals in the savannah have bodyhair..lion?yes..hyena?yes..yet they live and dominate the savannah..don't let the facts get in the way evos
storytelling is so much fun and sells better on the discovery channel..by the way what did hairless chimp do in the cold night?
say, isn't fire cool?
 
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napajohn

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Jet Black said:
say, isn't fire cool?
typical evo storytelling..no evidence required ..natural selection and fire..

Jungle Ape: Grog..see light out past woods?
Jungle Ape 2: its ..fire..keep hairless ape cousin warm
JA: can we use fire too?
ja2: no we trade them our hair for this bush called Rogaine
JA: i see we get hair and they get fire
ja2: yes soon they will leave savannah and learn to walk upright and build cities
ja: wow look at that Big bonfire
hairless ape comes running from savannah
HA:urgh got burned..he was walking on all fours and fire burned him to crisp
ja:what you want now?
ha: i have this stick with no fire..how do you light it?
ja:go through volcanic rock and dip stick in fire mountain
ha walks thru savannah and hot volcanic ash causing footprints that will be preserved for man to discover...

Don't you just love evolutionary storytelling :)
 
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