How can I make God to reveal himself to me?

[dhh712]

But if the christian God does exist, and so does the spiritual world, then human life acquires a total different meaning and purpose.

Yes, and that purpose is to glorify God and to enjoy Him forever.

There are many promises in the Bible that assures that God can reveal himself to somebody who seeks him with all their heart.

This is His promise---seek Him with all your heart for Him, not for yourself. Humbly beg Him to reveal Himself to you for the purpose of to glorify His great and holy name.

 

[TruthSeeker3]

Do you want to be loved for how people perceive you or be Loved in spite of the way you are?

I would like to be loved in spite of the way I am.

Would you want to sacrificially Love the unlovable (those that are out to take advantage of you)?

Yes, I would.

How do you feel about having to humbly accept pure charity? What would make you do such a thing?

I really don't know how it is like to be in the place of a poor beggar, but I have received help undeservedly sometimes and I have felt the moral responsibility of giving thanks.

Are you happy with your life and if not what type of person do you think is happy with their life?

No, I am not happy with my life. I think somebody would be happy with their life if they feel that their expectations and desires are fulfilled. However, if we introduce christian spirituality in the equation, somebody would never reach the fullness of their existence unless they find God.

What do you want to change in yourself?

I want to reach the fullness of my existence by finding the Truth and living according to it. Now, if we replace Truth by God, then the sentence would read like this: "I want to reach the fullness of my existence by finding God and living according to his will/purpose".

 

[orangeness365]

Try selling your soul to Jesus and ask him to talk to you in your dreams.

 

[oi_antz]

What you say about faith is true. Even for personal experiences it would be necessary to have faith to believe that it's God who is giving that experience. I would even extend this situation for every experience, including physical experiences: you must believe with no logical necessity that your so-called physical senses are revealing a real physical world and that you're not being fooled with an illusion. For every decision you make in life you must make underlying assumptions which are not logical certainties even when you are not aware of it.

Yes, this resonates with my present understanding too.

In order to reply to this paragraph, I recommend you to read first my last response to @Soul2Soul in post #38.

I did read what you wrote and I would like to know why you say that intellectual experiences can not have life changing power. The way I understand this statement is that you think that understanding something intellectually can not change your life like a spiritual or physical encounter with God can. I don't think this is true, and I say this because it is only the intellect that can change your life. It is the beliefs that ultimately convert circumstances and desires into decisions. If your beliefs change, then your decisions will be impacted. Beliefs change when existing beliefs are challenged by information that causes you to accept that the previous belief is wrong. You are saying that a physical experience will give you that information. I do not disagree, I just say it is not the only way, and the necessity of it happening is His decision. Should you insist on something He doesn't agree is right, you will only get frustrated. I cannot see any other result than that. Obedience is to accept His will when it contradicts our own.

There is a lot of scriptural support to real spiritual manifestations from God which eventually may have physical effects, which makes logical sense: God is omnipotent and has created a physical universe, and He can make real physical manifestations if He pleases.
But putting the focus on what you said, you are seemingly reducing everything to a materialistic/physical level, implicitly denying the possibility of having spiritual experiences, which are not physical. As I said in post #38, there are a lot of scriptural evidence (in fact, many are promises) that God can reveal himself in a spiritual level, in a personal intimate way, to a human being.

No I am not saying that at all. I have had physical experiences which I believe were the action of God. I am saying that you seem to be hung up on it instead of just trusting Him and getting on with life. You have a lot to potentially give to the kingdom, I suggest concentrating on that. You say you want to know the truth, I say you have a pretty good grasp on it, certainy enough to share with others. What I was actually saying is that your idea of a spiritual experience may be different from what it really is. Remember 1 John 4:2-3, that is the verse that when I recommitted to Jesus, showed me what had been going on in my spiritual life. This does seem to show that spirits speak to the mind. I don't know why so many people think that an emotional experience is evidence of The Holy Spirit, do you?

I agree that faith must be in first place, without experiences, and not the other way around (experiences in order to believe, in Thomas way). However, it's actually scriptural that by having faith in first place you can move God to reveal himself to you. At the moment I remember two passages that support this:

Jeremiah 29:13

13 You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.

Hebrews 11:6

6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

What do you expect the reward to be? Is a reward always a wish granted? What do you think is actually making God so hard to find?

 

[oi_antz]

Hi, sorry, I just saw an error in my post. You said I seem to not believe spiritual experiences are not always physical. I thought you were saying the opposite. So, yes I can also agree with that, He often speaks to me that way.

 

[TruthSeeker3]

I did read what you wrote and I would like to know why you say that intellectual experiences can not have life changing power. The way I understand this statement is that you think that understanding something intellectually can not change your life like a spiritual or physical encounter with God can. I don't think this is true, and I say this because it is only the intellect that can change your life. It is the beliefs that ultimately convert circumstances and desires into decisions. If your beliefs change, then your decisions will be impacted. Beliefs change when existing beliefs are challenged by information that causes you to accept that the previous belief is wrong. You are saying that a physical experience will give you that information. I do not disagree, I just say it is not the only way, and the necessity of it happening is His decision. Should you insist on something He doesn't agree is right, you will only get frustrated. I cannot see any other result than that. Obedience is to accept His will when it contradicts our own.

When I said that intellectual evidences in favor of the christian God has no life-changing power, I should admit that I was mainly talking based on my personal experience. I will try to explain this as clearly as possible. It's true that changing your ideas, your thoughts, your beliefs will have an impact in your decisions and that can be interpreted as a change in your life. That's true. But by life-changing power I was really meaning a profound change in your heart, and as I understand, a profound change of heart is beyond the scope of mere changes at rational level, and I will show you why. First, I will talk about my personal experience regarding this matter and then I will give you scriptural support.

1) Personal Experience:

As I said in the last lines of my first post, I used to be a skeptical agnostic. I am a very logic, rational person and I understand how to think and reason in a skeptic way, like any atheist, agnostic, skeptic in general. I appreciate the methodic skeptic way of reasoning of Science which has allowed it to come up with impressive theories to describe the physical reality with amazing practical applications (I even mentioned the computer you are using to read this post as a good example in my first post). As you can guess, I developed a very deep rational mindset when I was a skeptical agnostic, and I have not lost any rational abilities at all in spite of having made the decision of seeking the christian God and starting to develop a believer mindset.

That being said, I has been specially and obsessively concerned with the desire of knowing the Truth, but not in a sense of philosophical curiosity, but as an existential issue that will define everything I will do in my life (a lot of people just see existential issues as mere philosophical curiosities to have interesting conversations while driking coffe, nothing that will affect the status quo of their lives). My obsession with this existential issue is the result of early stimulation in my life to consider and concern about the existential meaning of life together with personal problems that have made my life unhappy (I guess if I had been totally happy with my terrenal life, I would not have even worried about existential issues, I would probably be too entertained living in the Matrix). In seeking the Truth, I am looking for the true meaning of my life in order to be clear about what I have to do and also I hope that somehow knowing and living according this Truth will bring peace, joy, existential fullness to my life.

Finally I get to the point. I have been exposed to a lot of evidences (although not logical certainties at all) that gives somewhat rational support to the christian God, not scientifically of course, but a least it makes the logical possibility that Christianity is truth more plausible. I gave some reasons in the first post, but for me the reason that triggered my decision of seeking God by myself was the testimonies of people, and it's easy to see why: testimonies of people (whether inside or outside the Bible) give me hope that I could eventually know God by myself as well (If they could, I can). Ok, here is the point: rational evidence gave me motivation to seek God, gave me hope that I would eventually find Him and my life would be changed. That's the idea. However, my life has not deeply changed. It's true that there were decisions I rationally made out of the movitation provided by these rational evidences in favor of Christianity (indeed I refered to it as my own version of the Pascal's Wager, I recommend you to google "Pascal's Wager" to have a better insight of it), but my life has not deeply changed. Something is missing, and I think that it must be a personal spiritual encounter with God. Now I will give scriptural support to this in point 2.

2) Scriptural Support:

When talking about a deep change of heart, the Biblie is clear describing it as a supernatural spiritual process performed by God (so it is not a mere psychological intellectual process, although it obviously has impacts on that area).

Ezekiel 36: 25-27

25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.


This passage clearly states a deep transformation of a person's heart performed by God. Furthemore, you can see the promise of the Holy Spirit also stated here. The result is that a person regenerated like this will have a new heart and will be guided by the Holy Spirit to follow God's decrees and laws. Needless to say that this is a supernatural process beyond a mere "change of intellectual ideas".

Here is another passage about the life-changing promise of the Holy Spirit:

Joel 2:28-29

28 “And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. 29 Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days.


Not only it is stated the promise of the Holy Spirit, but also you can read about some clear manifestations, such as prophecy, dreams, visions. We can see this supernatural and spiritual operation of the Holy Spirit in the book of Acts (I already gave examples in post #38):

You can see a clear tranformation fruit of the baptism of the Holy Spirit in Peter's life. Peter, who some time before had denied Jesus three times, now he was filled with the Holy Spirit so that he preached with such power that more than 3000 people converted to Christ in that very moment. In his speech he even quoted the passage of Joel 2 I gave you before (a bit more in fact):

Acts 2: 14-17

14 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. 15 These people are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning! 16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

17 “‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.


Acts 2:40

40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.


As you can see, there is a profound life-changing power in the Holy Spirit and the Bible talks about this promise, describes it and gives examples (reread my post #38 to see more quotations).

I know that your decisions can change based on new ideas, new thoughts, new beliefs, but in my personal case rationality has not had the power to change my life and the Biblie says that a deep change of heart is the result of something supernatural and spiritual, namely the work of the Holy Spirit.

No I am not saying that at all. I have had physical experiences which I believe were the action of God. I am saying that you seem to be hung up on it instead of just trusting Him and getting on with life. You have a lot to potentially give to the kingdom, I suggest concentrating on that. You say you want to know the truth, I say you have a pretty good grasp on it, certainy enough to share with others. What I was actually saying is that your idea of a spiritual experience may be different from what it really is. Remember 1 John 4:2-3, that is the verse that when I recommitted to Jesus, showed me what had been going on in my spiritual life. This does seem to show that spirits speak to the mind. I don't know why so many people think that an emotional experience is evidence of The Holy Spirit, do you?

To respond to this paragraph, I think that it would be a good idea to make clear this confusion about physical emotional experiences. Everything started when you made the assumption that I am looking for an emotional experience, a mere result of chemical activity in the brain. In other words, as though I were looking for a physical experience (since Chemistry is based on Physics). This sounds like a prejudice, as if you had some inclination to deny real spiritual experiences and assume that everything is nothing more than pure emotions, brain trickeries. If that is the case, I think you are wrong and I think that you are ignoring all the scriptural support in favor of real spiritual experiences with clear manifestations.

With regards to contributing to the Kingdom, I sincerly don't feel prepared to carry out the great comission. I have a lot of intellectual knowledge about Scriptures, I have read all the Bible, I have seen and listened many preachings, read books, in short, I know. However, I have not truly experienced this intellectual knowledge in my life. My current desire is to have a personal encounter with God that changes my life, that allows me to know the reality of God, not just knowledge or theory.

If I went to contribute to the Kingdom, I would have first to be a witness of Jesus, but in order to be a witness of Jesus I need the power of the Holy Spirit, as Jesus himself said:

Acts 1:8

8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

What do you expect the reward to be? Is a reward always a wish granted?

Since the reward is intended for somebody who is seeking God with all their heart, then the reward should be to find Him, which is indeed assured by the same Bible:

Jeremiah 29:13

13 You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.

A reward is not necessarily a wish granted as long as your wish is not subject to God's will.

James 4:3

3 When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures


However, according to the whole Bible it is actually God's desire to reestablish the communion between man and Him. There are just a lot of scriptural evidences and testimonies that support this.

What do you think is actually making God so hard to find?

I guess that my lack of faith, my lack of perseverance and the fact that I am struggling with sinful habits that have made me hard to remain in holiness. I understand that I must be faithful and remain in holiness in order for God to pour out his Holy Spirit in me. Otherwise everybody would be filled with the Holy Spirit and we would be living in a utopia right now (that's not the case).

 

[Soul2Soul]

TruthSeeker3,

If I may, could I not specifically go through each passage of scripture that you shared in your last reply to me? I do not want to side step those scriptures rather I want to share some thoughts ..... and then later perhaps come back to them.


First of all I want to really commend you for your doggedness in (still) pursuing the truth according to God form the Christian perspective ... I admire you for your determination.

I do want to share about what I consider important in this pursuit based on my understanding.

For me it was initially important to be convinced that God exists and that the Bible is indeed God's Word. Of course the Bible had the most significant impact on me in determining this - since I came to realise that it is God's Word.

Taking into account all the the teachings in the Bible I believe the key message for me was about my salvation, indeed salvation for all those who believe. My personal view is that one's salvation should be correctly determined from scripture (2 Timothy 3:15), and that salvation is the ultimate goal of one's faith (1 Peter 1:9). To me, establishing one's salvation (according to God's Word) is a highly important truth because it is the crux of Jesus' teachings/preachings and it is what will lead us to God. I personally was not looking for any signs, feelings etc just a certain knowledge - the truth, about how to be saved.

Referring to Acts 2:38, the gift of the Holy Spirit is promised when our sins are forgiven - which to me is tantamount to salvation. You are probably aware of the many differences between Christians concerning when and how the Holy Spirit is received ... my belief is based on Acts 2:38.

One of the most discussed subjects amongst Christians concerns the gifts of the Holy Spirit, most notably speaking in tongues and healing ... probably in part referring to your query about manifestations. The way in which I considered the gifts of the Holy Spirit took into consideration questions like, why, to whom, for what purpose, and relevancy today. My belief is that those gifts were bestowed on the disciples for that time only and I interpret the tongues to be referring to human languages.

I do feel that the questions/scriptures that you shared with me would be much better explained/understood by having read the book I recommended. It can be quite a detailed and complex subject and one on which I lack expertise.

By the way - I also believe that reading/using several versions of the Bible can shed a different light on some scriptures, for example John 14:21 in the NASB has "disclose" rather than "manifest".

Hope my reply is ok and I await your response.

 

[TruthSeeker3]

If I may, could I not specifically go through each passage of scripture that you shared in your last reply to me? I do not want to side step those scriptures rather I want to share some thoughts ..... and then later perhaps come back to them.

Ok, but I hope your next reply will have some section to address explicitly the quotations I wrote in post #38 and also the last two quotations at the bottom of post #39, because I think they are strong scriptural evidences that God can reveal himself to a human being on a personal level.

First of all I want to really commend you for your doggedness in (still) pursuing the truth according to God form the Christian perspective ... I admire you for your determination.

Thanks

I do want to share about what I consider important in this pursuit based on my understanding.

For me it was initially important to be convinced that God exists and that the Bible is indeed God's Word. Of course the Bible had the most significant impact on me in determining this - since I came to realise that it is God's Word.

I think it would be nice that you give me more insight about how you came to realise that the Bible is the word of God.

Taking into account all the the teachings in the Bible I believe the key message for me was about my salvation, indeed salvation for all those who believe. My personal view is that one's salvation should be correctly determined from scripture (2 Timothy 3:15), and that salvation is the ultimate goal of one's faith (1 Peter 1:9). To me, establishing one's salvation (according to God's Word) is a highly important truth because it is the crux of Jesus' teachings/preachings and it is what will lead us to God. I personally was not looking for any signs, feelings etc just a certain knowledge - the truth, about how to be saved.

I agree with the crucial importance of salvation in the christian theology, but I don't see any point of conflict with respect to the main subject of this thread, namely, how to get God reveal himself to me. In fact, getting to know God is very closely linked to salvation, as the same Bible states:

John 17:3

3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.


Matthew 7:21-23

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, `I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’


Both God has to know you and you have to know God in order to be saved. But obviously this kind of knowlege is not a simple "knowing about" (otherwise everyone who says 'Lord, Lord' would be saved because saying 'Lord, Lord' shows that they at least have some knowledge about God, even more so if they performed miracles, drove out demons and prophesied, but that's not the case). Surely there must be a kind of "knowing each other" between a man and God much much deeper than a simple intellectual knowledge in both directions. There must be something special that makes the relationship something intimate and profound. It's not enough just to know about God, you must know God, and something must happen in order to produce that change.

Regarding this point, I suggest you read my last post #46 where I dealt with this contrast between intellectual knowledge vs. personal revelation. There I shared my personal experience and scriptural support to reinforce my conclusion that I need God to reveal himself to me in a profound, personal, intimate way. By the way, you can address and share thoughts about the scriptural quotations in post #46 as well in your next reply, if you want.

Referring to Acts 2:38, the gift of the Holy Spirit is promised when our sins are forgiven - which to me is tantamount to salvation. You are probably aware of the many differences between Christians concerning when and how the Holy Spirit is received ... my belief is based on Acts 2:38.

I am actually aware of the fact that there are many positions concerning this matter. But in any case, there is too much scriptural evidence that God through the Holy Spirit can manifest himself to a human being.

One of the most discussed subjects amongst Christians concerns the gifts of the Holy Spirit, most notably speaking in tongues and healing ... probably in part referring to your query about manifestations. The way in which I considered the gifts of the Holy Spirit took into consideration questions like, why, to whom, for what purpose, and relevancy today. My belief is that those gifts were bestowed on the disciples for that time only and I interpret the tongues to be referring to human languages.

When I refer to my desire that God reveal himself to me, I don't mean this must happen necessarily by receiveing some specific gift of the Holy Spirit. Receiving gifts of the Holy Spirit is a possible manifestation, as it widely was the case in the book of Acts, but there are certainly many other ways in which God can manifest his reality to somebody, basically because God is omnipotent.
I can see that you are cessationist. With respect to this, I will give you two reasons for why I don't currently agree with cessationism:

1) I don't know any passage in the Bible stating that the gifts of the Holy Spirit will cease before the second coming of Christ.

In the case of 1 Corinthians 13: 8-12

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

you can see that prophecies, tongues, knowledge will cease when the completeness comes, because these things give only a partial image of the perfection that is to come. So in that time they will be no longer needed. But the time of perfection/completeness has not come yet, because as far as I know, we are still living in the last days and the Kingdom of Glory has not begun yet. In other words, the time for those gifts to cease has not begun yet.

2) I know many testimonies of people who have experienced manifestations of the Holy Spirit including gifts of the Holy Spirit.

I do feel that the questions/scriptures that you shared with me would be much better explained/understood by having read the book I recommended. It can be quite a detailed and complex subject and one on which I lack expertise.

Can you give me some url to get the book in pdf version for free?

By the way - I also believe that reading/using several versions of the Bible can shed a different light on some scriptures, for example John 14:21 in the NASB has "disclose" rather than "manifest".

Yes, it's a good advice.

Finally, I would like you to read the following translation from Spanish (my native language) into English of a text written by Josef Urban, which I will publish in the next post. I want you to read this text because it provides a very good description of the kind of intimate personal experience I would like to live with God, and it also gives practical advices to achieve this relationship if you are not currently experiecing it.

 

[TruthSeeker3]

Delighting us in God’s Presence
By Josef Urban

“You make known to me the path of life; you will fill me with joy in your presence, with eternal pleasures at your right hand.” Psalm 16:11
This scripture has been such a huge blessing to me and a marvelous promise and reality in the Lord. We don’t need the things of this world to be happy, nor the pleasures and interests of this life in following the things which this world enjoys. The true ‘path of life’ is found in following the Lord, and following the Lord means to live apart from the pleasures of this world and its system and to be consecrated to Him. In the presence of God there is not only joy, but fullness of joy! And we do not need to enjoy anything but what glorifies him and advances His purposes, because when we walk in a life without compromise and in His perfect will, seeking His face, remaining in His blessed presence, we will find the true delights forever and holy and divine satisfaction in Him!
I remember before my wife and I were married. It was immediately after that I was fired from my job cutting lawns. I lived in a dark basement. Most days I was confined to the basement for most of the day. She asked me: “Do you never get bored?” And I said: “Getting bored? No way! Christians must never get bored! There is joy and pleasure and satisfaction in the presence of God!” And it’s true! I spent the days studying and praying, and I had so blessed times in communion with God that I didn’t even want to go out to visit brethren and friends, I just wanted to pray continuously and draw near to the Lord. Sometimes the presence of God fell so densely that I was totally enraptured in heavenly ecstasy, glory to God! There was a supernatural fullness of joy and divine satisfaction in Him; even when I prostrated on my face just worshiping Him, there was perfect satisfaction, peace and joy in His presence. There is no other passing pleasure in this world that comes even close to compare with that cloud of glory in His presence. And through that, the Lord taught me the blessed virtue of satisfaction, of being completely satisfied always in Him, in His grace, in the multitude of His tender mercies.

This is what Paul wanted to say when he said: “I can do everything through Christ who strengthens me”. He was not saying that he could lift a thousand pounds, or run an Olympic marathon and win, or anything like that. I know that there are professional boxers who say that before a fight and try to twist the promise of God for it to means that they can break the heads of their adversaries- that is a foolishness (and antichristian)! In the context, Paul talked about being content in each situation, even though his physical circumstances were less than desirable. He knew how to be happy having much or having little. Even if he was in jail, Paul had the presence of the Lord with him- he got to pray and sing hymns delighting himself in the Lord until the walls would fall down, even in the most unfortunate circumstances! Sadly, most Christians do no experience the blessing of walking with God in such way because they live a life stained with what is impure, grieving the Spirit of God until he does not stay with them in no kind of fullness.
Holiness is a blessed thing, and when we walk in true holiness (not Satan’s counterfeit of legalism), we will enjoy God, God will delight in us and we will walk continuously in His presence. Legalism brings slavery, condemnation and misery, but holiness brings life, peace and fullness of joy, because it’s only a life of holiness which God honors with His continuous presence. Holiness has become misunderstood in our modern times and has become an almost dreaded word. Talk about holiness and people will shout: “God doesn’t want us to be hermits! God wants us to have fun!” However, if we truly walk in holiness (the separation between what is profane and impure and the consecration to what glorifies and honors God) we won’t enjoy the things that don’t glorify nor bring honor to God. In fact, the things that don’t glorify God will be despised in the heart of those who walk in a holiness without compromise, since they will not want to have anything to do with something that grieves the Spirit. “And don’t grieve the Holy Spirit of God” (Eph. 4:30)
The living creatures around the throne never leave God’s side; they always say the same things for all the eternity. “Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord Almighty”, and they don’t get bored nor frustrate, they have the fullness of divine joy via the virtue of the Throne (see Eze. 1:5, Rev. 4:6-8). If we truly remain under the shadow of the Almighty, living in His presence all the days, we will be glad continuously, completely satisfied in Him. We will not need the sensual or carnal things to bring us joy, “because the kingdom of God is not food nor drink, but justice, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit” (Rom. 14:17). If we really live the life of the Kingdom and walk with a renovated mind of the kingdom, we will not need to resort to perverse TV programs to seek satisfaction in the things of this world (that in principle are radically opposed to everything of the Kingdom of God); we will not need to seek insignificant pleasures and diversions to be happy. As a man of God said once: “Fun is the Devil’s substitution of joy”.

Why don’t many of those who profess to be Christians take supreme pleasure in God? Why don’t they find joy in His presence? Ultimately, because most of them are false converted who still love the world in their heart (if we love the world or the things of the world then the love of the Father is not in us – 1 John 2:15). But other reason is because too many Christians walk largely in the flesh and not in the Spirit. This is the reason why they never spend time in solitude meditating in and delighting in the things of God or worshiping the Father. The flesh dictates their actions and pleasures. The flesh hates to be crucified, hates to spend serious time in prayer seeking God, hates the discipline of studying diligently an ancient Book, hates everything spiritual. And because so many Christians still have a great part of the “flesh” active in them, it is a great struggle for them to truly draw near and seek the face of God, it is a struggle for them to really enjoy the things of the Spirit.
But when the flesh is crucified and the inner man, vivified by the Spirit of God, is alive and well, and directing and giving power to the believer, it becomes a true delight to approach him through prayer, it becomes a delight to find the essential food in the deep truths of the Word of God, it becomes a cry from the heart to experience the presence of God as a daily reality. That’s why the more you pray, the more you will want to pray. The more you study, the more you will want to study. When the man-spirit is strengthened, it begins to dictate the desires of the heart, and you begin to enjoy the things of God. When you enjoy God, and only in Him, He begins to manifest more and more His presence in your life, and it’s only in his presence that the fullness of joy is found.
The Spirit delights in the things of God while the flesh delights in the things of the world. So which one are you walking in? Which one do you delight in? Dear Christian, the truth is clear. If you sow to the flesh, from the flesh you will reap corruption. Most Christians spend so much time feeding the flesh, eating, drinking, entertaining it, satisfying it, even with “licit” things, and only a miniscule amount of time sawing to the Spirit, so which one is going to be stronger? If you regularly and continuously saw to the Spirit, your spiritual man will be strong, and from the Spirit you will reap the eternal life. In fact, don’t hope to harvest such eternal life in the blessed Kingdom of God unless you saw to the Spirit and walk in the Spirit regularly (see Rom. 8). A true Christian is nothing less than one that worships the Lord his God with all their heart, which is the greatest commandment, and one unavoidably delights in what one worships. Do you delight in God? Or you prostitute and become the harlot, committing adultery against God seeking satisfaction or happiness in the things of the world? (James 4:4)
So some may be thinking: “I confess! I don’t delight in the things of God as I should! How can I do it? How can I delight more in God? Where do I start?” Dear reader, everything starts in the cross. Come back to the cross! The flesh that still dictates your desires must be mounted in that bloody cross and be staked with the nails of mortification. It will cry and kick until the end, no doubt, but it needs to be left and silenced. Keep hitting in those nails until the flesh gets dominated completely and keeps captive to the cross. Everything in your life that you know it’s committed to the world, that you know it doesn’t please God, needs to be surrendered. No self-justifications are allowed. If it is against the principles of the Scripture, or if you know in your heart that it does not glorify God, get rid of it! If it is doubtful, get rid of it! Something that prevents you from having an absolutely pure conscience must be dealt and crucified. Allow the cross to have its complete work because it’s only in the cross where you can start to have communion with Christ.
Then call upon the name of the Lord! Cry out for the presence of God in your life. Begin by spending time in fervent prayer before the Throne, imploring that God’s mercies not only forgive your carnality, but that they also bless you with His presence and His fellowship; that with His Spirit he vivify you with power in the inner man. That the clamor of your heart be just to know him more. Increase your silence time or devotional time. Pray with more frequency throughout the day when you can. Do not dear to say that you don’t have time- you will find time for what you really want to do. And spend time in the Word. Read the Bible not as a task, but to know him more. Study to understand who God is, what he delights in, and implore before His presence that He give you power to be conformed to the image of His Son. Hold on to the promises of God in that blessed Book and pray them to fulfillment in your life. Study to show yourself before God approved.
Another way to break the barrier of carnality toward the Kingdom of God is separating a determined amount of time to seek God by means of fasting and prayer. Take a day, two days, three days, or a week, and abstain from solid food, spend most of time in the Word, in prayer, praising and worshiping God. You can use the money you would have spent in food to donate to poor brethren or to missions. This is always beneficial and uplifting to the Spirit. But be alert that any level of communion you experience when in such season of seeking, that you keep walking in it continuously afterwards and don’t go back to your former way of living. When done with pure motives, this is a tremendous way to experience great advances in the Spirit, and it could very well revolutionize your entire Christian walk.
While you continuously crucify your flesh and saw to the Spirit, walking in the Spirit with a pure conscience, your inner spirit-man will be edified and made strong, and your heart will be purified continuously by faith and the desires of the same will become holy desires, truly, longings for the communion of the presence of God. Your heart will have hunger and thirst for justice, and when you get filled with the blessed fruit of the Spirit, you will find the true internal delight in God, and even you will be able to testify with the Psalmist, “They shall be abundantly satisfied with the fatness of your house; and you shall make them drink of the river of your pleasures.” (Psalm 36:8)
When we really enter into a real experience of enjoying the presence of God in our lives and delighting us in Him, and not in the things of this world, loving the things He loves and sincerely delighting us in the things in which He delights, being filled with the Spirit continuously, longing the most pure holiness, enjoying the riches of His grace, then we will be living the normal Christian life- the life God planned for all his people to experience. I believe that the greatest desire of God is that His people find delight and supreme pleasure only in Him. We no longer have to delight in satisfying the desires of the eyes, the desires of the flesh, or the pride of life, in the things of this world, but we have to delight in just knowing him, and being perfectly satisfied and glad in just that. “This is what the LORD says: Let not the wise boast of their wisdom or the strong boast of their strength or the rich boast of their riches, but let the one who boasts boast about this: that they have the understanding to know me, that I am the LORD, who exercises kindness, justice and righteousness on earth, for in these I delight, declares the LORD” (Jer. 9:23-24)

Source: ht tp://w ww.cristianismobiblico.com/la-presencia-de-dios. html

 

[forGod1]

your ability to not believe in atheism is proof you have a chance. What I did to find God involved doing an acceptance-type prayer from the Bible. Look up powerful prayers on google. I wasn't even really doing much.. and then bam, two huge miracles.. maybe three. There were Christians there helping me. Find a group of Christians and just say you want to accept God. Go through some steps on google, or just do what I did. I agreed and bam.. bam. Your heart opens up when you agree that creation is God-driven, and you're ready to do that. That's where your hope lies.

 

[TruthSeeker3]

your ability to not believe in atheism is proof you have a chance. What I did to find God involved doing an acceptance-type prayer from the Bible. Look up powerful prayers on google. I wasn't even really doing much.. and then bam, two huge miracles.. maybe three. There were Christians there helping me. Find a group of Christians and just say you want to accept God. Go through some steps on google, or just do what I did. I agreed and bam.. bam. Your heart opens up when you agree that creation is God-driven, and you're ready to do that. That's where your hope lies.

Hello forGod1, thanks for posting.
Could you give me more details about your testimony? Could you tell more about those three miracles?
Also, I think it would be a good idea if you read all my posts throughout this thread, so that you will have a more complete understanding of my personal situation.

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

Can you summarize your situation or point us to the single post that gives us the best information? Many of us don't have time to read the entire thread, but we would like to offer our assistance.

 

[oi_antz]

Hi TruthSeeker3, I have reworded this post. This is because I have recently become aware of a manner of speech that does not encourage discussion. I am still trying to understand how to improve this, and after seeing Soul2Soul's response I noticed a stark contrast. Something that made my response look like a confrontation. I don't know that it is all wrong, certainly Jesus was/is divisive, but in all His acts of confrontation there is a gracefulness that did not come through in my comment here. So I will see if I can make the points I intended while also being graceful. Thanks for your patience as I work through this bad habit.

When I said that intellectual evidences in favor of the christian God has no life-changing power, I should admit that I was mainly talking based on my personal experience. I will try to explain this as clearly as possible. It's true that changing your ideas, your thoughts, your beliefs will have an impact in your decisions and that can be interpreted as a change in your life. That's true. But by life-changing power I was really meaning a profound change in your heart, and as I understand, a profound change of heart is beyond the scope of mere changes at rational level, and I will show you why. First, I will talk about my personal experience regarding this matter and then I will give you scriptural support.

1) Personal Experience:

As I said in the last lines of my first post, I used to be a skeptical agnostic. I am a very logic, rational person and I understand how to think and reason in a skeptic way, like any atheist, agnostic, skeptic in general. I appreciate the methodic skeptic way of reasoning of Science which has allowed it to come up with impressive theories to describe the physical reality with amazing practical applications (I even mentioned the computer you are using to read this post as a good example in my first post). As you can guess, I developed a very deep rational mindset when I was a skeptical agnostic, and I have not lost any rational abilities at all in spite of having made the decision of seeking the christian God and starting to develop a believer mindset.

That being said, I has been specially and obsessively concerned with the desire of knowing the Truth, but not in a sense of philosophical curiosity, but as an existential issue that will define everything I will do in my life (a lot of people just see existential issues as mere philosophical curiosities to have interesting conversations while driking coffe, nothing that will affect the status quo of their lives). My obsession with this existential issue is the result of early stimulation in my life to consider and concern about the existential meaning of life together with personal problems that have made my life unhappy (I guess if I had been totally happy with my terrenal life, I would not have even worried about existential issues, I would probably be too entertained living in the Matrix). In seeking the Truth, I am looking for the true meaning of my life in order to be clear about what I have to do and also I hope that somehow knowing and living according this Truth will bring peace, joy, existential fullness to my life.

Finally I get to the point. I have been exposed to a lot of evidences (although not logical certainties at all) that gives somewhat rational support to the christian God, not scientifically of course, but a least it makes the logical possibility that Christianity is truth more plausible. I gave some reasons in the first post, but for me the reason that triggered my decision of seeking God by myself was the testimonies of people, and it's easy to see why: testimonies of people (whether inside or outside the Bible) give me hope that I could eventually know God by myself as well (If they could, I can). Ok, here is the point: rational evidence gave me motivation to seek God, gave me hope that I would eventually find Him and my life would be changed. That's the idea. However, my life has not deeply changed. It's true that there were decisions I rationally made out of the movitation provided by these rational evidences in favor of Christianity (indeed I refered to it as my own version of the Pascal's Wager, I recommend you to google "Pascal's Wager" to have a better insight of it), but my life has not deeply changed. Something is missing, and I think that it must be a personal spiritual encounter with God. Now I will give scriptural support to this in point 2.

I don't think you need to make the distinction between rational, logical thinking and having faith. There are many people who have faith who are also rational, logical thinkers and there is no reason to believe that if you were to develop faith, you would become less rational or logical than you presently are. Those are qualities of your personality.

I don't quite follow what you expect to be a supernatural change of heart if it is not merely about accepting His commandments. This might be due to a difference in the way we understand what His commandment is. Can you describe what you expect to be different about your renewed heart when compared to the present? I feel like you may be expressing some common Christian vernacular, but I want to know what it means to you.

2) Scriptural Support:

When talking about a deep change of heart, the Biblie is clear describing it as a supernatural spiritual process performed by God (so it is not a mere psychological intellectual process, although it obviously has impacts on that area).

Ezekiel 36: 25-27

25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.


This passage clearly states a deep transformation of a person's heart performed by God. Furthemore, you can see the promise of the Holy Spirit also stated here. The result is that a person regenerated like this will have a new heart and will be guided by the Holy Spirit to follow God's decrees and laws. Needless to say that this is a supernatural process beyond a mere "change of intellectual ideas".

I read this verse to be God stating that He will create a new heart in the Jews, and was stated this way by the prophet to Israel. Why do you take the context of this statement to apply to yourself? Did someone present it to you that way?

Here is another passage about the life-changing promise of the Holy Spirit:

Joel 2:28-29

28 “And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. 29 Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days.


Not only it is stated the promise of the Holy Spirit, but also you can read about some clear manifestations, such as prophecy, dreams, visions. We can see this supernatural and spiritual operation of the Holy Spirit in the book of Acts (I already gave examples in post #38):

Sure, I accept that and I haven't contested it. What I did suggest though is maybe you are looking for a manifestation of The Holy Spirit that God has decided to not give you yet. I don't think that is bad by itself, but you are attaching to it a condition that you will accept Him if you get what you desire. I remember the story of the talents, the one who used the talent wisely was rewarded and the one who buried the talent had it taken from him and given to the others. What is interesting about this is the concept of investment. That is, using what you have in a specific way that will cause an increase or growth. Christianity emphasises spiritual growth. As a previous poster said, you do possess something of value in having not committed to atheism. Just keep in mind John 15:2 as this also relates to your earlier verse "today is the day of salvation".

You can see a clear tranformation fruit of the baptism of the Holy Spirit in Peter's life. Peter, who some time before had denied Jesus three times, now he was filled with the Holy Spirit so that he preached with such power that more than 3000 people converted to Christ in that very moment. In his speech he even quoted the passage of Joel 2 I gave you before (a bit more in fact):

Acts 2: 14-17

14 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. 15 These people are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning! 16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

17 “‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.


Acts 2:40

40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.


As you can see, there is a profound life-changing power in the Holy Spirit and the Bible talks about this promise, describes it and gives examples (reread my post #38 to see more quotations).

I know that your decisions can change based on new ideas, new thoughts, new beliefs, but in my personal case rationality has not had the power to change my life and the Biblie says that a deep change of heart is the result of something supernatural and spiritual, namely the work of the Holy Spirit.

The work of The Holy Spirit can manifest in many ways. In this verse we see the manifestation of tongues. The other manifestation in this verse is the confidence Peter had and the impact of the words he used, to represent the truth to the crowd, and with The Holy Spirit working in their hearts combined with the crowd's contextual knowledge of Jesus, led to the baptism of a huge number of people.

To respond to this paragraph, I think that it would be a good idea to make clear this confusion about physical emotional experiences. Everything started when you made the assumption that I am looking for an emotional experience, a mere result of chemical activity in the brain. In other words, as though I were looking for a physical experience (since Chemistry is based on Physics). This sounds like a prejudice, as if you had some inclination to deny real spiritual experiences and assume that everything is nothing more than pure emotions, brain trickeries. If that is the case, I think you are wrong and I think that you are ignoring all the scriptural support in favor of real spiritual experiences with clear manifestations.

No, I do not deny the reality of spiritual things. I just wanted to show you a common misconception about it, as spirituality is most often confused with emotional activity. I accept that my assumption might have been wrong, and I guess I will know for sure when you explain what you think a change of heart might be like.

With regards to contributing to the Kingdom, I sincerly don't feel prepared to carry out the great comission. I have a lot of intellectual knowledge about Scriptures, I have read all the Bible, I have seen and listened many preachings, read books, in short, I know. However, I have not truly experienced this intellectual knowledge in my life. My current desire is to have a personal encounter with God that changes my life, that allows me to know the reality of God, not just knowledge or theory.

You mentioned James 4:3 below, does that speak to you in this context? WRT an encounter with God that will change your life, strictly speaking, the gospel has that power and you are facing it right now. Maybe you don't quite realize it, but it is happening. John 15:22 is related to John 3:18-21.

If I went to contribute to the Kingdom, I would have first to be a witness of Jesus, but in order to be a witness of Jesus I need the power of the Holy Spirit, as Jesus himself said:

Acts 1:8

8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

You don't need to be a witness to contribute to the kingdom of God. Just be honest, that's better than His witnesses achieve sometimes. Remember the parable of the talents. Use what you have been given wisely and if you produce fruit, He will prune you to develop more fruit. Some people who are prejudiced against Christians may respect your perspective more, I believe He could find that particularly useful.

Since the reward is intended for somebody who is seeking God with all their heart, then the reward should be to find Him, which is indeed assured by the same Bible:

Jeremiah 29:13

13 You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.

When you say this, you are making an accusation. So, I only have to wonder, are you restraining yourself or is God's promise not good?

A reward is not necessarily a wish granted as long as your wish is not subject to God's will.

James 4:3

3 When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures


However, according to the whole Bible it is actually God's desire to reestablish the communion between man and Him. There are just a lot of scriptural evidences and testimonies that support this.

A desire does not always win the decision though. Sometimes to get what we desire may not be wise. We see many evidences of God grieving because His wisdom determines that it is ultimately better to forego His desire.

I guess that my lack of faith, my lack of perseverance and the fact that I am struggling with sinful habits that have made me hard to remain in holiness. I understand that I must be faithful and remain in holiness in order for God to pour out his Holy Spirit in me. Otherwise everybody would be filled with the Holy Spirit and we would be living in a utopia right now (that's not the case).

Habits can be broken when He free's us from them. Sometimes it will take time to re-train the brain. Certain habits such as my communicative manner may require time and attention to develop, whereas addictions can be ceased instantly by changing the perspective of our desires.

The act of making Him Lord is to accept His commandments and obey Him. Does this mean we are completely holy on that day? I say no and it is stated and implied in scripture that holiness is a process of growth. Rather the instant result of making Him our Lord is a change of heart such that instead of prior choosing to disobey Him, we choose to do as He commands. This is where your idea of faith vs my idea of faith is crucial. For me, obedience is not following a regime, but as I described earlier, being aware of the devil/angel and conceding to His commandment. He does live you know, not in the word of a book but in spirit. Those who have His commandments and obey them are those He will reveal Himself to. This is the reason I have edited this post, because He has told me that I needed to. I think it is interesting to point out that He didn't tell me to change it before I posted it. Sometimes we need the experience to really teach us a lesson.

So I have found it interesting to discuss this today. The question seems less how to get Him to reveal Himself to you, but whether you have His commandments and obey them, and whether the spiritual fruit you are desiring to be cultivated doesn't require some sort of action on the investment He has already made in you.

 

[Godisgood12]

How can I make God to reveal himself to me?

It isn't possible. God is already God.

Satan lusts after "making" God. It isn't possible, for God is already God.

One can try and fail horribly though.

Perhaps that is your hidden agenda.

All that are against God have a secret agenda to fail, not in there thoughts or words, instead, their actions.

 

[dhh712]

Delighting us in God’s Presence
By Josef Urban

“You make known to me the path of life; you will fill me with joy in your presence, with eternal pleasures at your right hand.” Psalm 16:11
This scripture has been such a huge blessing to me and a marvelous promise and reality in the Lord. We don’t need the things of this world to be happy, nor the pleasures and interests of this life in following the things which this world enjoys. The true ‘path of life’ is found in following the Lord, and following the Lord means to live apart from the pleasures of this world and its system and to be consecrated to Him. In the presence of God there is not only joy, but fullness of joy! And we do not need to enjoy anything but what glorifies him and advances His purposes, because when we walk in a life without compromise and in His perfect will, seeking His face, remaining in His blessed presence, we will find the true delights forever and holy and divine satisfaction in Him!,
I remember before my wife and I were married. It was immediately after that I was fired from my job cutting lawns. I lived in a dark basement. Most days I was confined to the basement for most of the day. She asked me: “Do you never get bored?” And I said: “Getting bored? No way! Christians must never get bored! There is joy and pleasure and satisfaction in the presence of God!” And it’s true! I spent the days studying and praying, and I had so blessed times in communion with God that I didn’t even want to go out to visit brethren and friends, I just wanted to pray continuously and draw near to the Lord. Sometimes the presence of God fell so densely that I was totally enraptured in heavenly ecstasy, glory to God! There was a supernatural fullness of joy and divine satisfaction in Him; even when I prostrated on my face just worshiping Him, there was perfect satisfaction, peace and joy in His presence. There is no other passing pleasure in this world that comes even close to compare with that cloud of glory in His presence. And through that, the Lord taught me the blessed virtue of satisfaction, of being completely satisfied always in Him, in His grace, in the multitude of His tender mercies.

This is what Paul wanted to say when he said: “I can do everything through Christ who strengthens me”. He was not saying that he could lift a thousand pounds, or run an Olympic marathon and win, or anything like that. I know that there are professional boxers who say that before a fight and try to twist the promise of God for it to means that they can break the heads of their adversaries- that is a foolishness (and antichristian)! In the context, Paul talked about being content in each situation, even though his physical circumstances were less than desirable. He knew how to be happy having much or having little. Even if he was in jail, Paul had the presence of the Lord with him- he got to pray and sing hymns delighting himself in the Lord until the walls would fall down, even in the most unfortunate circumstances! Sadly, most Christians do no experience the blessing of walking with God in such way because they live a life stained with what is impure, grieving the Spirit of God until he does not stay with them in no kind of fullness.
Holiness is a blessed thing, and when we walk in true holiness (not Satan’s counterfeit of legalism), we will enjoy God, God will delight in us and we will walk continuously in His presence. Legalism brings slavery, condemnation and misery, but holiness brings life, peace and fullness of joy, because it’s only a life of holiness which God honors with His continuous presence. Holiness has become misunderstood in our modern times and has become an almost dreaded word. Talk about holiness and people will shout: “God doesn’t want us to be hermits! God wants us to have fun!” However, if we truly walk in holiness (the separation between what is profane and impure and the consecration to what glorifies and honors God) we won’t enjoy the things that don’t glorify nor bring honor to God. In fact, the things that don’t glorify God will be despised in the heart of those who walk in a holiness without compromise, since they will not want to have anything to do with something that grieves the Spirit. “And don’t grieve the Holy Spirit of God” (Eph. 4:30)
The living creatures around the throne never leave God’s side; they always say the same things for all the eternity. “Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord Almighty”, and they don’t get bored nor frustrate, they have the fullness of divine joy via the virtue of the Throne (see Eze. 1:5, Rev. 4:6-8). If we truly remain under the shadow of the Almighty, living in His presence all the days, we will be glad continuously, completely satisfied in Him. We will not need the sensual or carnal things to bring us joy, “because the kingdom of God is not food nor drink, but justice, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit” (Rom. 14:17). If we really live the life of the Kingdom and walk with a renovated mind of the kingdom, we will not need to resort to perverse TV programs to seek satisfaction in the things of this world (that in principle are radically opposed to everything of the Kingdom of God); we will not need to seek insignificant pleasures and diversions to be happy. As a man of God said once: “Fun is the Devil’s substitution of joy”.

Why don’t many of those who profess to be Christians take supreme pleasure in God? Why don’t they find joy in His presence? Ultimately, because most of them are false converted who still love the world in their heart (if we love the world or the things of the world then the love of the Father is not in us – 1 John 2:15). But other reason is because too many Christians walk largely in the flesh and not in the Spirit. This is the reason why they never spend time in solitude meditating in and delighting in the things of God or worshiping the Father. The flesh dictates their actions and pleasures. The flesh hates to be crucified, hates to spend serious time in prayer seeking God, hates the discipline of studying diligently an ancient Book, hates everything spiritual. And because so many Christians still have a great part of the “flesh” active in them, it is a great struggle for them to truly draw near and seek the face of God, it is a struggle for them to really enjoy the things of the Spirit.
But when the flesh is crucified and the inner man, vivified by the Spirit of God, is alive and well, and directing and giving power to the believer, it becomes a true delight to approach him through prayer, it becomes a delight to find the essential food in the deep truths of the Word of God, it becomes a cry from the heart to experience the presence of God as a daily reality. That’s why the more you pray, the more you will want to pray. The more you study, the more you will want to study. When the man-spirit is strengthened, it begins to dictate the desires of the heart, and you begin to enjoy the things of God. When you enjoy God, and only in Him, He begins to manifest more and more His presence in your life, and it’s only in his presence that the fullness of joy is found.
The Spirit delights in the things of God while the flesh delights in the things of the world. So which one are you walking in? Which one do you delight in? Dear Christian, the truth is clear. If you sow to the flesh, from the flesh you will reap corruption. Most Christians spend so much time feeding the flesh, eating, drinking, entertaining it, satisfying it, even with “licit” things, and only a miniscule amount of time sawing to the Spirit, so which one is going to be stronger? If you regularly and continuously saw to the Spirit, your spiritual man will be strong, and from the Spirit you will reap the eternal life. In fact, don’t hope to harvest such eternal life in the blessed Kingdom of God unless you saw to the Spirit and walk in the Spirit regularly (see Rom. 8). A true Christian is nothing less than one that worships the Lord his God with all their heart, which is the greatest commandment, and one unavoidably delights in what one worships. Do you delight in God? Or you prostitute and become the harlot, committing adultery against God seeking satisfaction or happiness in the things of the world? (James 4:4)
So some may be thinking: “I confess! I don’t delight in the things of God as I should! How can I do it? How can I delight more in God? Where do I start?” Dear reader, everything starts in the cross. Come back to the cross! The flesh that still dictates your desires must be mounted in that bloody cross and be staked with the nails of mortification. It will cry and kick until the end, no doubt, but it needs to be left and silenced. Keep hitting in those nails until the flesh gets dominated completely and keeps captive to the cross. Everything in your life that you know it’s committed to the world, that you know it doesn’t please God, needs to be surrendered. No self-justifications are allowed. If it is against the principles of the Scripture, or if you know in your heart that it does not glorify God, get rid of it! If it is doubtful, get rid of it! Something that prevents you from having an absolutely pure conscience must be dealt and crucified. Allow the cross to have its complete work because it’s only in the cross where you can start to have communion with Christ.
(Jer. 9:23-24)

Source: ht tp://w ww.cristianismobiblico.com/la-presencia-de-dios. html

I'm really glad you posted this here and I enjoyed reading it (I think I might understand your question a lot better now having read this). This is a problem I wrestle with myself. Having come from such an irreligious, almost anti-religious background, I feel much more love and reverence for God than I did before I was converted. Yet I get very frustrated because there is this one thing that I know I have more affection for than for God and I don't want it to be like that. The most frustrating thing about it is that it is what God used to draw me to Him so the skeptic can definitely view it as the reason why I feel that way about God: that there is no spirituality involved in it at all, that it is just about this one person.

I think it is important to realize it is a gift, this knowledge of Him, this relationship with Him. All we can do is continue in our diligence and pray that He will reward us with this experience of Him. It can not come from our efforts--we wait on the Lord.

The important thing I feel is for the desire to know Him to be there. For me personally, I can't stand how I still get fulfillment from worldly things. When I was first given the ability to believe that Jesus is God I remember realizing how empty the world was and how the things I used to get enjoyment from, that I used to think were important, were so pointless. Yet I still can't get rid of wanting some things! Even though I know they don't mean anything to me eternally, it doesn't matter-- I still want them now. I just can't stand it; I can't stand how the world still holds me in bondage.

It is apparent there is a progress in how I was to how I am now, but it is still not enough for me. I want to be like the person in the paragraph above which you posted. Yet I'm so far from that there's no possible comparison. I can relate to lots of what that person says, but there's still the worldly things I can't stop taking enjoyment from--mainly the one person which God used to draw me to Him; that's the main source of my guilt.

I think it is also important though to take the focus off ourselves and focus on Him--on the cross, as the person in the paragraph mentions. That is where all the answers are and where all our efforts should lie. When I get to realizing how worldly I still am, I also realize that I am making it about me and not Him. I feel like that is where most of my sorrow still originates from--that I am focusing on myself and what I am or am not doing and not on Christ. The cross should always be the center of our meditations, our thoughts, our prayers, not on what is happening to us.

 

[Soul2Soul]

Ok, but I hope your next reply will have some section to address explicitly the quotations I wrote in post #38 and also the last two quotations at the bottom of post #39, because I think they are strong scriptural evidences that God can reveal himself to a human being on a personal level.

Thank you, and yes I will refer to those quotations.

Thanks

Your'e welcome.


I think it would be nice that you give me more insight about how you came to realise that the Bible is the word of God.

I'd love to share: I think knowing that the books of the Bible were written over some 1500 years, by around 40 different authors without any collaboration with each other and containing prophecies (" Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." 2Peter 1:20-21) the fact that God's authority was apparent in the Bible .... helped me to consider it's divine value. What further strengthened my belief that the Bible is God's Word was a study of scriptures in the Bible, e.g.:
Hebrews 4:12 "For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart." The fact that the Bible is alive and active suggested to me that God breathed life into the scriptures and that they are eternal. Understanding the double-edged sword concept .. especially in the context of dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow made me aware a surgical spiritual operation .. whereby the Bible would go deep into my being and perform the required surgery even if it might be painful (realising the truth) at times. Here is a book claiming that it can penetrate even to dividing soul and spirit ... incredible. And on top of that this book can judge the thoughts and attitudes of the heart .... sounds to me like this book is claiming to be speaking in behalf of God .. because as far as I know only God can do all of those things!
Other scriptures I looked at: 1Timothy 4:16, 2Timothy 3:16-17, John 12:47-48 and Acts 17:10-11 which taught about the Bible's divine inspiration, deriving doctrine and holding onto that doctrine, the Word will judge us on the day, and of examining the scriptures diligently.

I agree with the crucial importance of salvation in the christian theology, but I don't see any point of conflict with respect to the main subject of this thread, namely, how to get God reveal himself to me. In fact, getting to know God is very closely linked to salvation, as the same Bible states:

John 17:3

3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.


Matthew 7:21-23

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, `I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’


Both God has to know you and you have to know God in order to be saved. But obviously this kind of knowlege is not a simple "knowing about" (otherwise everyone who says 'Lord, Lord' would be saved because saying 'Lord, Lord' shows that they at least have some knowledge about God, even more so if they performed miracles, drove out demons and prophesied, but that's not the case). Surely there must be a kind of "knowing each other" between a man and God much much deeper than a simple intellectual knowledge in both directions. There must be something special that makes the relationship something intimate and profound. It's not enough just to know about God, you must know God, and something must happen in order to produce that change.

Regarding this point, I suggest you read my last post #46 where I dealt with this contrast between intellectual knowledge vs. personal revelation. There I shared my personal experience and scriptural support to reinforce my conclusion that I need God to reveal himself to me in a profound, personal, intimate way. By the way, you can address and share thoughts about the scriptural quotations in post #46 as well in your next reply, if you want.



I am actually aware of the fact that there are many positions concerning this matter. But in any case, there is too much scriptural evidence that God through the Holy Spirit can manifest himself to a human being.



When I refer to my desire that God reveal himself to me, I don't mean this must happen necessarily by receiveing some specific gift of the Holy Spirit. Receiving gifts of the Holy Spirit is a possible manifestation, as it widely was the case in the book of Acts, but there are certainly many other ways in which God can manifest his reality to somebody, basically because God is omnipotent.


If I may ... try and respond to your passages above this way: they all seem to consider a manifestation, revelation and/or disclosure from God to you? In considering this I wanted to share the following: looking at Jesus and his disciples .... would you think that those disciples could be made aware of any greater manifestation, revelation and/or disclosure from God other than God Himself in the flesh being in their lives? These men were hand picked by Jesus - they ate with him, touched him, talked with him - they shared their lives with God in human form. Yet during the course of Jesus' ministry despite having witnessed miracles and having been personally taught by Jesus these chosen men still could not at times understand the spiritual messages that Jesus was delivering in his messages and parables - Matthew 15:16 and Matthew 16:9 for example. What extra manifestation, revelation and/or disclosure did they require? Perhaps, and this is my opinion, the thoughts and attitudes of their hearts and minds needed to be continually reconditioned so that their faiths could evolve? I would suggest that Jesus words had more to do with this than the miracles on their own, because Jesus messages were always in attendance with his miracles. Jesus message to them had to be of the utmost importance since they were entrusted to preach it after Jesus had risen and they had to remember what Jesus had told them. It needed them to be totally open and committed in faith and understanding to God's Word before It could live in them and they could represent It without error. Can you see what I am trying to say TruthSeeker3 - the disciples needed more than intellectual knowledge but not additional manifestations, revelations and/or disclosures ... they witnessed many miracles and heard Jesus preach countless times .. but they lacked something which prevented God from revealing Himself to them 100% because they doubted at times ... until it all finally sank in who Jesus truly was and they remembered his miracles but it was Jesus' words that had given validity to Jesus claims.

Getting back to the scriptures in your post 38 ... they refer to the Holy Spirit ... which Jesus said would be a helper and in effect it would be like Jesus being with the disciples again except that they would not be able to touch, see or literally hear him. The day of Pentecost I believe was exceptional and it is noticeable that the Word was preached by Peter ... the very thing that Jesus did so much during his ministry.


I can see that you are cessationist. With respect to this, I will give you two reasons for why I don't currently agree with cessationism:

1) I don't know any passage in the Bible stating that the gifts of the Holy Spirit will cease before the second coming of Christ.

In the case of 1 Corinthians 13: 8-12

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

you can see that prophecies, tongues, knowledge will cease when the completeness comes, because these things give only a partial image of the perfection that is to come. So in that time they will be no longer needed. But the time of perfection/completeness has not come yet, because as far as I know, we are still living in the last days and the Kingdom of Glory has not begun yet. In other words, the time for those gifts to cease has not begun yet.

2) I know many testimonies of people who have experienced manifestations of the Holy Spirit including gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Thank you for sharing - I am aware of that perspective regarding number 1. I would mention though that there is quite a widely held view that the completeness/perfection co-refers to the Bible becoming complete and the establishment of the church during the apostolic age .... the gifts of the Holy Spirit were effective accordingly Hebrews 2:3-4 and Ephesians 4:11-12. It seems by many accounts the gifts of the Holy Spirit and that of apostleship was limited to the first century church.

I too know of people who testify about receiving gifts of the Holy Spirit and I personally know some. My understanding is that the gifts of the Holy Spirit were attainable only through God's Holy Spirit or by the laying on of hands by the apostles. The main point for me is that this was all for the purpose of the Gospel and the body of Christ. If I were to consider the situation today - there are many people from many different churches claiming to have these gifts and every one claims to be preaching the right Gospel ..... yet the teachings of the churches vary - there are many different versions of the Gospel being preached .... which one is correct in God's eyes? Does God want disunity? Perhaps the gifts were more effectively used by the intended apostolic recipients?


Can you give me some url to get the book in pdf version for free?

Can I PM you regarding this? There maybe be copyright issues!

Yes, it's a good advice.

Finally, I would like you to read the following translation from Spanish (my native language) into English of a text written by Josef Urban, which I will publish in the next post. I want you to read this text because it provides a very good description of the kind of intimate personal experience I would like to live with God, and it also gives practical advices to achieve this relationship if you are not currently experiecing it.

I will respond to the text at some stage if that too is ok? I have to confess that I have problems concentrating and it is quite a large portion! Shame you couldn't send cake via text!!

 

[oi_antz]

Hi TruthSeeker, I notice you have not logged in for a few weeks so I don't know if you have noticed the changes I have made to my post. I am feeling quite bad about this because I am thinking that I might have pushed you away with the manner of the original speech. I did not have that intention at any time. If you do manage to take another look at it, you might find something worth considering. That is my intention. In either case, I wish well for your search for the truth, and my heart reaches to God for you that you will one day concede to His direction (which can never be absolutely specified by words. The letter quickens, the spirit is life). Plus, St Paul said it is God who gives the increase, just as Jesus said The Father does the pruning. Jesus also said that some seed falls on good soil. The soil is our heart. That is all we can control, the rest is up to God. If you have even that much trust in Him, that is the faith of a mustard seed and it can move mountains.

I would like to say a prayer to God for you and with you, I hope you can agree.

Dear God in the highest, it is with great honour, respect and awe that a person of your magnificence would be interested in knowing us personally and intimately, and that while we are so faulty, your desire remains. It moves my heart to tears. We pray for the reality of such a gift to become TruthSeeker3's greatest motivation, as he has seen the reality in other people's lives. We ask you to reveal your true nature to him so he can discern your directions from those that others may seek to impose in your name, and to identify your voice among the many who compete for sovereingty in his mind. If your desire and TruthSeeker3's desire are for the same nature and degree of faith, please send Your Holy Spirit to guide him and others to teach him as he goes about preparing his heart for the gospel to flourish. There are many other things to desire too, but we realize the only right reason to ask anything of you is for the sake of others. So we ask for the development of faith and understanding of truth so TruthSeeker3 can be a confident witness to your glory, and be of service to you. We pray in Jesus name.

TruthSeeker3, if you agree with those words, you may say amen, but because you agreed to address the most high God in Jesus' name, the sentiment was already properly directed. I wish you the best and I do hope our desires are coherent.