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How can i join a church if i can not answer these questions?

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lostnotfallen

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-Too what purpose does hell serve God?

-What is heaven if my loved ones and family is not there?

-Why shall i strive to join any religion if i only feel its too be good and because i fear in something so stupid as hell?

-WHY DO RELIGIONS SEGREGATE??? Catholics,Christians , Jews ( The chosen people)

-On that note they do not believe in Christ yet they are Gods chosen?

-Even if i believe yet i treat others terribly why do i deserve salvation?

-We keep faith when we are in fear of our lives yet we keep doing bad things we can not accept the fact of an unconditional loving God that is why we believe GOD must have rules he must!

I dont mean to spread hate or push my believe on ANYONE! these are some of the few questions that keep me away from ever stepping inside a church

I feel i only go there to be good and i feel more spiritual now then i ever did before when i went to church

Please help answer some of these questions i dont know where to post
 

Albion

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-Too what purpose does hell serve God?

-What is heaven if my loved ones and family is not there?

-Why shall i strive to join any religion if i only feel its too be good and because i fear in something so stupid as hell?

-WHY DO RELIGIONS SEGREGATE??? Catholics,Christians , Jews ( The chosen people)

-On that note they do not believe in Christ yet they are Gods chosen?

-Even if i believe yet i treat others terribly why do i deserve salvation?

-We keep faith when we are in fear of our lives yet we keep doing bad things we can not accept the fact of an unconditional loving God that is why we believe GOD must have rules he must!

I dont mean to spread hate or push my believe on ANYONE! these are some of the few questions that keep me away from ever stepping inside a church

I feel i only go there to be good and i feel more spiritual now then i ever did before when i went to church

Please help answer some of these questions i dont know where to post

Thanks for asking us! I can certainly sympathize with not making a commitment until you really know you can put your heart into whatever it is you are signing onto...and that takes really knowing you are in agreement with the organization's purpose. No apologies are necessary on that account, that's for sure.

There is one obvious answer that could be given to you. That is that a church is not a club. It has certain principles but it does not expect that everyone who comes in is either an expert or has all the answers. The church is an association of followers of Christ who are on a journey and still learning. That answer, however, may not be good enough if you feel that you are just getting your foot in the door and have too many doubts about the religion overall.

It looks to me that about half of your questions here are theological ones that can be answered all right, but about half are a matter of your own sense of unworthiness. I hope that's not incorrect to say.

I'll try to answer briefly, the ones dealing with the afterlife. We are not given to know, exactly, what heaven and hell are like. We are not even sure that we can contemplate such things above the normal with the minds we currently have. Much of this is only hinted at in scripture because describing the full reality to us in our current state would be impossible for us to grasp.

What we do know is that hell is being without God and fully knowing what we've lost, while heaven is to be with God and fully understanding the ultimate satisfaction that this is. Who goes there (Will my family be there, etc.?) and what it is like is not ours to comprehend at this time. Of course the Bible also says that judgment is God's to make, not ours, so perhaps it is best if we try not to speculate too much.

I would never say that joining a church because of fearing hell is the right reason to join, nor do I think any church would say differently. We may well fear hell, but that is because we have already crossed a bridge and realize that there is good and evil. You are further along than you might have thought.

We all fall constantly. All of us are sinners. Do not let that torment you. The fact that you care is more important. What Christ taught is that, although we are weak and do sin, we have a savior, one who pays the price for our sins. That is Christianity's main message, not that we cease to be tempted or even to err after having given our lives to the Lord.

I think my reply is overly long now, and I know that I have only made a start on some of your concerns, but if you can focus on one or a few of them at first, or if you'll react to whatever I've said that doesn't sit well with you, I am sure all of us here would be happy to try to give you the answers you want.
 
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drich0150

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Too what purpose does hell serve God?
Hell is the place where God is not. We are given this life to prove to ourselves just where we would like to spend eternity. Either with God or away from him.. Hell is the only place we can be that is out of God's "presents."

-What is heaven if my loved ones and family is not there?
That's just it, your loved One will be there. Heaven is not a gated community with pearly gates and gold brick lined streets.. Heaven is the place Where God's glory resides. We choose Heaven to be with God not to live in a paradise, or in gimmicked surroundings meeting people of history or from our own past.

In our next life we will be aware of our past lives, but also our minds will be opened and we will have a more complete understanding of who we are, and our place in creation.. It's kinda like when you were a small child. Then your mother was your complete life, and link to everything else in this world. But now even though you may love and want the best for her, you do not need her as you once did. She is not you link to life nor is she you connection to the rest of society. Primarily because you grew up. When we get to heaven we will spiritually "grow up," and what we value now, will be less important then.


-Why shall i strive to join any religion if i only feel its too be good and because i fear in something so stupid as hell?
You shouldn't. "religion" should only be an expression of love through our actions.. Although, "religion" is more often than not, a place of dry tradition, and empty ceremonies, meaningless to man and God.

-WHY DO RELIGIONS SEGREGATE??? Catholics,Christians , Jews ( The chosen people)
Culture, tradition, and people have different views on how best to serve the Lord.
The Jews also believe in the messiah, but they don't believe that Jesus was that messiah. all other forms of "christianity" do including the catholics.

-On that note they do not believe in Christ yet they are Gods chosen?
They were "chosen" to Host or be the race of people in which God would manifest himself, (In Jesus) and save us from our sins.

-Even if i believe yet i treat others terribly why do i deserve salvation?
True belief is not without action. In fact "true belief" can not be separated from action, so if you truly believe (In Jesus) you con not treat people "horribly"

-We keep faith when we are in fear of our lives yet we keep doing bad things we can not accept the fact of an unconditional loving God that is why we believe GOD must have rules he must!
I don't understand this question or statement??

I don't mean to spread hate or push my believe on ANYONE! these are some of the few questions that keep me away from ever stepping inside a church

I feel i only go there to be good and i feel more spiritual now then i ever did before when i went to church

"spirituality" is a funny thing. spirituality can manifest itself in many different ways. Enlightenment, education, personal righteousness can all spur on feelings of "spirituality." But, true spirituality (From God) is a humbling experience. It rarely see pride or boasts, but never the less, it is very apparent in the person who wields it.. The true test of Godly spirituality comes in the way of Spiritual fruit... These fruit can be found in Galatians 5:22
 
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Adoniram

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I may have answers that differ from the above, but I will give scripture references to show where I'm coming from.

-Too what purpose does hell serve God?
Hell is a place that was created for the devil and the angels that followed him in rebellion. It was not originally intended for man. But, you either fall into the categories of being a follower of God or a follower of the devil. There is no inbetween. If you are not a follower of God, you will spend eternity in the same place as the devil.

Mt. 25
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels

Mt. 12
30 He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad.

Luke 9
50 But Jesus said to him, “Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us is on our side.”

-What is heaven if my loved ones and family is not there?
That is entirely possible, which is why, as Christians, it is our desire and our responsibility to ensure that our loved ones hear the truth of Jesus Christ, and that we encourage them to believe. A famous preacher once said that when we get to heaven we will be surprised at who we find there, and even more surprised at who we don't find there. However, regardless of who we see or don't see there, God has promised that heaven is a place without sorrow and tears. It will be a place of rejoicing, and so glorious that we won't even remember our former lives. We can't even imagine how wonderful it will be.

Is. 65
17 “ For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;
For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing,
And her people a joy.
19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
And joy in My people;
The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her,
Nor the voice of crying.

1 Cor. 2
9 “ Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”

-Why shall i strive to join any religion if i only feel its too be good and because i fear in something so stupid as hell?
Fear is a great motivator. Jesus spoke and warned us about hell more than he spoke about heaven. It is real.

Mt. 10
28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

But...God loves us and has no desire to send anyone to hell, which is why he sent His Son.

Rom. 5
6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

And rejoicing in God because of what He has done for us, it should become our natural desire to please Him.

-WHY DO RELIGIONS SEGREGATE??? Catholics,Christians , Jews ( The chosen people)
It was not Jesus' original plan. He wanted us all to be united in him. But men being men, all are consumed with their own desires and ideas, and so, divisions arose. I would have to say that it is in part due to the efforts of the devil to cause strife in the church and work against what God is trying to create.

James 3
13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. 15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. 16 For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there.

2 Peter 2 deals exclusively with false doctrines that have arisen to pollute the gospel.

2 Peter 2
1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words;

-On that note they do not believe in Christ yet they are Gods chosen?
The Jews were "Chosen" for two purposes: 1) To be the people whom God revealed Himself to the world. His Word, the Bible, was delivered through them. And He revealed a lot about His character through His dealings with them. 2) It was through them that He sent the Savior, His Son.

Yes, they did not accept Jesus, and he lamented that fact often.

Mt. 23
37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD!’”

God is not done dealing with the Jews yet, but he has "put them on the back-burner" so to speak. Because of their rejection of Jesus, the gospel message went out to the rest of the world.

Rom. 11
7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written:

“ God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”

11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!

-Even if i believe yet i treat others terribly why do i deserve salvation?
No one deserves salvation, it is the gift of God to those who believe. If one has a genuine repentance and belief in Jesus, they become a new creation, and having the Spirit of God in us, new desires to please God become more important than the old desires. That's not to say that the old desires completely go away, we are constantly at war with them.

Rom. 7
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

But because of our belief in Christ, God no longer places us under condemnation when we error.

Rom. 8
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

The Spirit of God helps us in our weaknesses.

-We keep faith when we are in fear of our lives yet we keep doing bad things we can not accept the fact of an unconditional loving God that is why we believe GOD must have rules he must!
God's salvation has never been unconditional. It has always been the case that it was granted to those that obeyed Him in faith. The rules/laws/commandments were given, not that they can save us, but so that we would know what God considered to be sin. Because the old system/covenant of sacrificing for sins was imperfect, God instituted a new system/covenant.

Rom. 7
7 .... I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

Rom. 8
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Heb. 7
18 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, 19 for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is thebringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.
20 And inasmuch as He was not made priest without an oath 21 (for they have become priests without an oath, but He with an oath by Him who said to Him:

“ The LORD has sworn
And will not relent,
‘ You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek’”),

22 by so much more Jesus has become a surety of a better covenant.
23 Also there were many priests, because they were prevented by death from continuing. 24 But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. 25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
26 For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who isholy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; 27 who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people’s, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. 28 For the law appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath, which came after the law, appoints the Son who has been perfected forever.

I dont mean to spread hate or push my believe on ANYONE! these are some of the few questions that keep me away from ever stepping inside a church

I feel i only go there to be good and i feel more spiritual now then i ever did before when i went to church

Please help answer some of these questions i dont know where to post
Going to church cannot make you good and it cannot save you. You have to come to that point in your life where you recognize that you need a Savior, and believe in Jesus. Until you do so, those old sinful desires will rule in your life. Keep seeking and keep asking questions. God has placed a desire to know Him in all of us, yourself included.
 
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lostnotfallen

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"Hell is the place where God is not. We are given this life to prove to ourselves just where we would like to spend eternity. Either with God or away from him.. Hell is the only place we can be that is out of God's "presents."

I like this answer and i think it goes strongly with what i believe or starting to understand

"We keep faith when we are in fear of our lives yet we keep doing bad things we can not accept the fact of an unconditional loving God that is why we believe GOD must have rules he must!"

ill rephrase this: We believe that God loves us conditionally like some people love each other. Basing our human experiences about God thus making a judgmental God. However ,because of your first statement for me this means if we have faith and love we will be with God and we should not live in guilt and fear about hell.

ill rephrase what i said again: The idea of a God who is not to be feared, who will not Judge, and who has no cause to punish is to hard to grasp which is how i feel God should be.

Right now i feel my biggest problem is loving my self i feel i can not truly love someone until i do this. How could i ever follow the golden rule if i feel i have hate towards my self and sometimes love?

So that is where i am at now. Trying to let go and truly be happy. Yet my hate keeps coming i keep getting tempted towards useless things and its a never ending cycle its driving me insane i sometimes wish it to just end as in my life, but i know this is the most useless selfish thing i can do

Im willing to do anything i hope somone can shed some light or advice thank you

btw drich0150 and Albion
user_offline.gif
what

Kind of church do you guys go to?
 
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drich0150

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ill rephrase this: We believe that God loves us conditionally like some people love each other. Basing our human experiences about God thus making a judgmental God. However ,because of your first statement for me this means if we have faith and love we will be with God and we should not live in guilt and fear about hell.

I agree here

The idea of a God who is not to be feared, who will not Judge, and who has no cause to punish is to hard to grasp which is how i feel God should be.

But here, not so much..

God should be feared, not as a tyrant, but feared, as in respect and love. Because God will judge. He will judge all of those who spend the time they have in this life pursuing God, or seeking a means to put distance between themselves and God.. essentially he will separate us, Wheat from chaff, wheat and weeds, Sheep and Goats, all that is righteous will be taken into his presents, all that is not will thrown outside, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth..

Don't misunderstand my definition of Hell. Hell is not a place of literal fire and brimstone where the devil reigns.. Hell is the absents of God, It's much worse than literal fire and brimstone ever could be.. I think the reason "fire" is used to describe hell is because there is an emotion that is generated when being consumed by fire, and even though we are not burning we as creatures or products of creation will be consumed by the emptiness of the void which is Hell, and that plus the seperation will induce much torment. (In all who dwell there including the devil)

But again this is no reason to seek out Heaven.. This may get you in the doors but it can not sustain what a true relationship with God has to mature into...

If for some reason some where in time the descriptions for Heaven and Hell were switched, and "Hell was Paradise but without God, and Heaven was a literal fiery pit but God lived there would you still want to goto Heaven (The fiery pit) and burn for eternity just to be with God?

Heaven no matter what it physically looks like is the place where God's Glory resides. Our desire to be there should extend past our desire to live on a gold bricked street in an angelic gated community.. If it doesn't then not only do we not deserve heaven we will never truly know it.

So bottom line is fearing hell is an ok reason to get into church, but should not be the reason you stay.

Right now i feel my biggest problem is loving my self i feel i can not truly love someone until i do this. How could i ever follow the golden rule if i feel i have hate towards my self and sometimes love?

Because true love is selfless.. Love has nothing to do with how we "feel" when we put conditions on our love, we have manipulation and codependency spawn from our efforts. The Golden Rule:Love the Lord Your God With All Of Your Heart, Mind, Spirit, And Strength. Notice that there isn't a measurable effort here, it's simply says give Him all you have.. When we "Feel" bad about ourselves the love we can give is alot less than what we may be able to give when we feel better.. Just be faithful with what you have been given, and He will see to your increase.

what Kind of church do you guys go to?

Church of Christ.

If you are having feelings of suicide the best thing for you is to start sharing your thoughts with others. the worst thing you can to is try or force your self to figure things out on your own.. Doing things on your own is probably what brought you to this place to begin with.
 
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Bible2

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lostnotfallen posted in message #1 of this thread:

Too what purpose does hell serve God?

Greetings.

Hell serves to show God's wrath and make his power known
(Romans 9:22).

lostnotfallen posted in message #1 of this thread:

What is heaven if my loved ones and family is not there?

Heaven is where Jesus is (Philippians 1:21,23). We must love Jesus
more than other people (Matthew 10:37). He is the path of life; in
his presence is fulness of joy; at his right hand there are pleasures
for evermore (Psalms 16:11, John 14:6).

lostnotfallen posted in message #1 of this thread:

Why shall i strive to join any religion if i only feel its too be good and
because i fear in something so stupid as hell?

Hell isn't stupid, neither is fearing God because of hell (Matthew 10:28,
Luke 12:5). It's worth it to believe in Jesus and obey him, so that one
won't be tormented in hell forever (John 3:16-36, Hebrews 5:9,
Revelation 21:8, 14:10-11).

lostnotfallen posted in message #1 of this thread:

WHY DO RELIGIONS SEGREGATE??? Catholics,Christians , Jews ( The
chosen people)

Biblical Christians shouldn't segregate (1 Corinthians 1:10-13). Not
all Jews are chosen (elect), and some Gentiles are chosen (Romans
9:6-24).

lostnotfallen posted in message #1 of this thread:

On that note they do not believe in Christ yet they are Gods chosen?

Some Jews who do not yet believe in Christ are still God's chosen
(elect) (Romans 11:28). They will believe in Christ at his second
coming (Romans 11:26-28, Zechariah 12:10-14). Unchosen Jews will
never believe in Christ, because they are not of God (John 8:42-47),
just as all unchosen people, regardless of whether they're Jews or
Gentiles, are not of God (Matthew 13:37-43).

lostnotfallen posted in message #1 of this thread:

Even if i believe yet i treat others terribly why do i deserve salvation?

No one deserves salvation (Romans 3:9-12). Belief by itself is not
sufficient to obtain ultimate salvation (Matthew 24:48-51, Matthew
7:21, Romans 2:6-8, Hebrews 5:9, James 2:24).

lostnotfallen posted in message #1 of this thread:

We keep faith when we are in fear of our lives yet we keep doing
bad things we can not accept the fact of an unconditional loving
God that is why we believe GOD must have rules he must!

God does have rules (John 14:21-24). He shows unconditional love
toward elect sinners with regard to their initial salvation (Romans 5:8,
John 15:13-14).

---

lostnotfallen posted in message #5 of this thread:

if we have faith and love we will be with God and we should not live
in guilt and fear about hell.

We need not fear that we are headed for hell (1 John 4:18) so long
as we are obeying God's rules (1 John 5:3). He can help us to do so,
if we ask him to (John 16:24).
 
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Bryanfromiowa

Guest
-Too what purpose does hell serve God?
The best definition of hell i've heard is the absence of god. for those who don't accept jesus there is eternal separation from god God has shown his love and his wrath hell is his wrath
-What is heaven if my loved ones and family is not there?
This is not enough reason to burn in hell I truly believe once we are in the presence of god all our earthly cares will be washed away.
-Why shall i strive to join any religion if i only feel its too be good and because i fear in something so stupid as hell?
fear of hell has nothing to do with why i remain a christian, i live to please god because i love him and i live to serve my fellow man
-WHY DO RELIGIONS SEGREGATE??? Catholics,Christians , Jews ( The chosen people)
much of the bible is written in parable for this reason there are many ways of looking at it

-On that note they do not believe in Christ yet they are Gods chosen?
god revealed himself to the jews first they are his people in the end they must accept christ or be condemned to hell
-Even if i believe yet i treat others terribly why do i deserve salvation?
every other religion on the planet says that man must do something in order to be worthy christianity says there is nothing we can do to be worthy of gods love, and thats why he sent jesus to die on the cross for us because we can't do it on our own
-We keep faith when we are in fear of our lives yet we keep doing bad things we can not accept the fact of an unconditional loving God that is why we believe GOD must have rules he must!
see above answers but i don't follow christ out of fear i follow him so i don't have to fear he laid down his life to pay for my sins, all i have to do is love him.

good luck and keep asking those questions
 
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-Too what purpose does hell serve God?

-What is heaven if my loved ones and family is not there?

-Why shall i strive to join any religion if i only feel its too be good and because i fear in something so stupid as hell?

-WHY DO RELIGIONS SEGREGATE??? Catholics,Christians , Jews ( The chosen people)

-On that note they do not believe in Christ yet they are Gods chosen?

-Even if i believe yet i treat others terribly why do i deserve salvation?

-We keep faith when we are in fear of our lives yet we keep doing bad things we can not accept the fact of an unconditional loving God that is why we believe GOD must have rules he must!

I dont mean to spread hate or push my believe on ANYONE! these are some of the few questions that keep me away from ever stepping inside a church

I feel i only go there to be good and i feel more spiritual now then i ever did before when i went to church

Please help answer some of these questions i dont know where to post

There have been other good answers to some of these questions, and I will respond to the later post first about loving one's self.
The Bible says in Ephesians 5:29 ..."for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church.," ...
So, the focus in the golden rule is not loving one's own self, but loving others more than you already love self. Wanting to get out of life is actually a sign that you don't want to face something...what people consider as a way to escape problems. Don't give in and don't give up!

Okay, first question. To add to what others have said, I believe hell is a place of torment and fire and regret and spiritual darkness apart from God...these are all found in Scripture. God is a just and holy God and cannot tolerate sin. It is His nature and character. Therefore there must be a punishment for sin. There is no way we can earn salvation or even do good on our own.

The second question I can sympathize with. If loved ones are not in Heaven, we imagine we will feel sad. God will wipe away tears though, and we cannot reject God just because others we love have not believed. Just as one may leave their parents and family to go marry someone they love, even more so when you have the opportunity to get to know and be loved by an awesome God will you not be willing to receive what those you loved are wishing they had now and cannot? Still, even Paul desired his kinsmen according to the flesh to be saved so strongly that he could even wish or pray that he was accursed for their sake...he loved them so much. Romans 9:3 and keep reading.

Okay third question. Belonging to Christ is not just a matter of being good. Salvation is not just an escape from Hell, although it is that. God offers a personal relationship with Himself, and the joy and pleasures that are more ultimate than any earthly pleasure you can think of. It is not a shallow temporary thing such as sexual pleasures or the pleasure of eating your favorite chocolate or whatever. Everyone sins, and that separates us from God. We have not loved Him with all our hearts or lied or stolen or lusted, etc. Even the rich young ruler was not willing to give up all to follow Jesus...that was a sin of not loving Him enough. We deserve hell. Hell is no joke. Believe me you don't want to be there. Some people compare things on earth to hell, but they have no idea what they are talking about. But what if this same God decided that in mercy and love that He had a plan that would satisfy His holiness and the wrath against sin to save those He chooses to show mercy to? That He even went so far as to have the Son take the punishment for sin that was deserved by mankind? He loved so much that He sacrificed His own beloved Son on a cross and even punishing Him for others sins when He Himself was perfect...God the Son in human flesh. Is this not unconditional love? He is willing to forgive sins of those who will repent and believe and commit their lives to Him. He is willing to give spiritual blessings to those who trust in Him and follow Him, and He is the One who will set you apart and work changes in your heart for your good if you trust in Him. It's not just going to church to be good. Church cannot save you, but God can. Church is where Christians go to have fellowship with other believers, to get teaching, to encourage them to keep loving and obeying and serving God, etc.
God offers eternal life and a fulness of life and spiritual blessings even here on earth. He offers adoption. I'd rather be a child and a friend and servant of God, than an enemy and a slave of Satan.

Next question. Well, not all faiths are the same. Christians believe things differently from Catholics and the Jewish religion. It is important what you believe, not just that you believe something. The Jews do not believe that Jesus was the Messiah, the Savior, the Promised One. Catholics believe in faith plus works saving one and in the authority of the Church and in priests. Christians such as myself believe that the Bible teaches the authority of Scripture over any leader, that all Christians can talk to God through Jesus directly, that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, and we stand on the Word of God alone. That doesn't mean that true faith won't produce works, but we believe they aren't meritorious for salvation. There are differences also in denominations amongst Christians, some are minor and all true Christians are sisters and brothers...whether they are Messianic Jews, Baptists, Non-Denonimational...which I really am despite going to a southern Baptist church right now, etc., etc. People tend to go to a church at the level of where their understanding of what the Bible teaches is.

Okay, I will skip to the point where perhaps you are saying that you have seen people who call themselves Christians doing wrong things? Even Christians still struggle with sin as one person quoted a great verse on that. As a Christian even, I need to look at the perfection of Jesus who is the Author and finisher or Perfecter of my faith...not at other people or circumstances. People fail us, although you will meet some godly people if you go to a healthy church that teaches and lives the Truth. I recommend you read John and Romans in the Bible. Jesus and His claims are what you need to consider. Also, do you not feel sin weighing on you? If God is calling you, do not try to resist. All of these side issues will lose there importance if you look at what you have to gain, and what you think you will lose will lose importance in the face of a Savior who offers love and forgiveness, hope and life. I plan to pray for you today. I would hate to see you lose out, and I long for you to be rescued.
 
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Albion

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"Hell is the place where God is not. We are given this life to prove to ourselves just where we would like to spend eternity. Either with God or away from him.. Hell is the only place we can be that is out of God's "presents."

I like this answer and i think it goes strongly with what i believe or starting to understand

"We keep faith when we are in fear of our lives yet we keep doing bad things we can not accept the fact of an unconditional loving God that is why we believe GOD must have rules he must!"

ill rephrase this: We believe that God loves us conditionally like some people love each other. Basing our human experiences about God thus making a judgmental God. However ,because of your first statement for me this means if we have faith and love we will be with God and we should not live in guilt and fear about hell.

ill rephrase what i said again: The idea of a God who is not to be feared, who will not Judge, and who has no cause to punish is to hard to grasp which is how i feel God should be.

Right now i feel my biggest problem is loving my self i feel i can not truly love someone until i do this. How could i ever follow the golden rule if i feel i have hate towards my self and sometimes love?

So that is where i am at now. Trying to let go and truly be happy. Yet my hate keeps coming i keep getting tempted towards useless things and its a never ending cycle its driving me insane i sometimes wish it to just end as in my life, but i know this is the most useless selfish thing i can do

Im willing to do anything i hope somone can shed some light or advice thank you

btw drich0150 and Albion
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what

Kind of church do you guys go to?

Hello again. Sorry I missed your question to me until just now, but I'm happy to answer. I'm a conservative Anglican. We're very Bible-centered as well as ceremonial. Is there something you'd like to ask as a result of knowing that?
 
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Bro_Sam

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-Too what purpose does hell serve God?

-What is heaven if my loved ones and family is not there?

-Why shall i strive to join any religion if i only feel its too be good and because i fear in something so stupid as hell?

-WHY DO RELIGIONS SEGREGATE??? Catholics,Christians , Jews ( The chosen people)

-On that note they do not believe in Christ yet they are Gods chosen?

-Even if i believe yet i treat others terribly why do i deserve salvation?

-We keep faith when we are in fear of our lives yet we keep doing bad things we can not accept the fact of an unconditional loving God that is why we believe GOD must have rules he must!

I dont mean to spread hate or push my believe on ANYONE! these are some of the few questions that keep me away from ever stepping inside a church

I feel i only go there to be good and i feel more spiritual now then i ever did before when i went to church

Please help answer some of these questions i dont know where to post

Don't take this the wrong way, but the question isn't how can you join a church if you can't answer these questions, but how can a church accept you as a member if you're not a Christian.
 
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FutureAndAHope

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-Too what purpose does hell serve God?

Many purposes, it is primarily a place of punishment for wrong doing. Those who persist in resisting God end up there, and will be punished to varying degrees based upon what they did wrong in this current life.

-What is heaven if my loved ones and family is not there?
I like to be the optimist, even people that you think will end up in hell can be saved by God as death approaches, I know of God saving people by himself as a person was dying. Even if others do choose to ignore God, and act foolishly by doing so, does not mean it should be your life goal too imitate foolish behavior.

-Why shall i strive to join any religion if i only feel its too be good and because i fear in something so stupid as hell?
I have met a person who has been down close to hell, a criminal I met said when he was clinically dead in hospital he went down into a place where he began to feel the heat of hell upon rocks where he was standing. I have heard of others who have been to hell and back when they were clinically dead. It is a real place and should have some real fear attached to it. I only became a Christian through the fear of hell.

-WHY DO RELIGIONS SEGREGATE??? Catholics,Christians , Jews ( The chosen people)
It depends upon where you go to church, the church that I attend does not segregate religions. We do not go around mouthing off at other faiths.

-On that note they do not believe in Christ yet they are Gods chosen?
God chooses all of us but it is still our part to receive that. The Jews are chosen to a different level, but they still need to walk in Gods ways to be counted as chosen by God.

-Even if i believe yet i treat others terribly why do i deserve salvation?
If you treat others badly consistently you will end up in hell. There are no free rides. That said God is willing to receive any one who is willing to repent, i.e. change there way of doing things

-We keep faith when we are in fear of our lives yet we keep doing bad things we can not accept the fact of an unconditional loving God that is why we believe GOD must have rules he must!
The person who is really saved will have a desire for right living, and does not have a fear of hell because we know God loves us. Sure there are rules and a Christian will obey them. Some one who says they are saved but "does not have works" is not really saved, or is in need of a life change.
 
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Catherineanne

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-Too what purpose does hell serve God?

-What is heaven if my loved ones and family is not there?

-Why shall i strive to join any religion if i only feel its too be good and because i fear in something so stupid as hell?

-WHY DO RELIGIONS SEGREGATE??? Catholics,Christians , Jews ( The chosen people)

-On that note they do not believe in Christ yet they are Gods chosen?

-Even if i believe yet i treat others terribly why do i deserve salvation?

-We keep faith when we are in fear of our lives yet we keep doing bad things we can not accept the fact of an unconditional loving God that is why we believe GOD must have rules he must!

I dont mean to spread hate or push my believe on ANYONE! these are some of the few questions that keep me away from ever stepping inside a church

I feel i only go there to be good and i feel more spiritual now then i ever did before when i went to church

Please help answer some of these questions i dont know where to post

Imagine you were about to go to University to take a degree course.

Would you need to be able to answer your final exams before you go? Or would you accept that taking a degree course is a process; it is about learning, and finding even more questions than you ever imagined? And that your tutors, fellow students and student resources are there to help you along the way?

The journey of faith is like this. We do not need to know all the answers. We only need to know where to go to help us to find those answers, as they arise. We need the support of a minister, of fellow believers, our Bible and other Christian resources.

All I would say at this stage is, do not underestimate God. You cannot love your family and friends more than he does, so if you want them to enter eternity, then so does he. And God generally gets what he wants. So take that first step, by all means. I am sure you will never regret it.

I wish you well. :wave:
 
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Catherineanne

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"Hell is the place where God is not. We are given this life to prove to ourselves just where we would like to spend eternity. Either with God or away from him.. Hell is the only place we can be that is out of God's "presents."

I like this answer and i think it goes strongly with what i believe or starting to understand

This answer also resonates with me. Evil is an absence of God's presence. I would go further, however, and say that this withdrawing of God's presence is an act of mercy on his part. Holiness and profanity do not mix, so he withdraws his holiness so that the profane are not destroyed, but have time for amendment of life.

"We keep faith when we are in fear of our lives yet we keep doing bad things we can not accept the fact of an unconditional loving God that is why we believe GOD must have rules he must!"

ill rephrase this: We believe that God loves us conditionally like some people love each other. Basing our human experiences about God thus making a judgmental God. However ,because of your first statement for me this means if we have faith and love we will be with God and we should not live in guilt and fear about hell.

God's love is not conditional, imo. It is unconditional; it is offered freely, and all we have to do is to accept it. He will not force any of us to accept his love, but it is offered to all, freely and without condition.

ill rephrase what i said again: The idea of a God who is not to be feared, who will not Judge, and who has no cause to punish is to hard to grasp which is how i feel God should be.

How would you describe parenting? Is it about fear and punishment, or is it about relationship and love?

There is your answer.

Right now i feel my biggest problem is loving my self i feel i can not truly love someone until i do this. How could i ever follow the golden rule if i feel i have hate towards my self and sometimes love?

It is often said that we must love our own self before we love other people. I do not think this is true. :) Certainly we will be happier if we can accept ourselves, and accept our own imperfections, but it is not necessary before we love and accept anyone else.

So that is where i am at now. Trying to let go and truly be happy. Yet my hate keeps coming i keep getting tempted towards useless things and its a never ending cycle its driving me insane i sometimes wish it to just end as in my life, but i know this is the most useless selfish thing i can do

Im willing to do anything i hope somone can shed some light or advice thank you

None of us can ever achieve perfection in this life. Even the most devout, most religious, most Christian people, will feel exactly as you do; that they are failing, over and over, and having to start again, over and over.

Please be assured that this is part of being human, and part of having a conscience. It does not make you a bad person, but quite the opposite.

God be with you. :wave:
 
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lostnotfallen

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I just liked your first statement. How you explained hell and heaven , we shouldn't be worried about those things yet.We should work on our relationship with God and bettering ourselves.

Bible-centered and ceremonial these too things seem to dry to me i think people translate it differently and I don’t like when people just quote things from the bible. None of my friends go to church’s. I used to go to church ,but looking back I don’t like what they where teaching us

I feel the trying to get us to speak in tongues when we are 6 years old in a separate room is borderline cultish... and the baptism with the holy spirit to me is just for show. The way I see it the trinity is just our way of understanding something as complex as God. Seeing people fall down is all Bs. This is what angers me about religion I don’t believe in holy artifacts or anyone is more important on this earth then anyone else the pope who ever..

Another thing extremely orthodox churches especially when looking at the Old testament our life is a lot different now. I think its okay to drink but with in reason, also how is masturbation and sex a sin? Too be honest there would be more deaths in the world if people didn’t relive them selves. I understand that its lust and it serves on in now way ,but to be honest? Show me a man who never thinks about a women ,because if this is a sin every time a man thinks about something sexual is this not against the fruits of spirit so has he not sinned?

One last thing I will forever believe in God and I will acknowledge there is a right and wrong or a Good and Evil. I believe there was a man named Jesus however what is getting me is this Sins with God and Jesus being the only way for salvation. I do not believe in Satan I believe in God. I think all men have Good and Evil in them and that we use Satan as a representation of that desire and want and urge for things that are not of the fruit of the spirit. I don’t think there is some spiritual war going on… Like God would loose or something we are basing it on human conditional experiences again. So many questions…
 
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lostnotfallen

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Okay i read two things that make me laugh and so angry im almost sick to my stomach.

1.
Originally Posted by lostnotfallen
-Too what purpose does hell serve God?
Many purposes, it is primarily a place of punishment for wrong doing. Those who persist in resisting God end up there, and will be punished to varying degrees based upon what they did wrong in this current life.

2.Don't take this the wrong way, but the question isn't how can you join a church if you can't answer these questions, but how can a church accept you as a member if you're not a Christian.

One question one =D. So you think That God pretty much says I love you but if you disobey! I will send you to Everlasting damnation for eternity you will burn and suffer HAHA again this is basing our views of hell on human experience.. Do you really think you can Offend somthing so great as God? that he will "Punish" Us

TO WHAT BENEFIT WOULD THAT DO GOD......

On the second one... Are you out of your mind? Did jesus not spend time with those considered unclean? the leppers the sinners everyone?? Are you telling me That Your church is so Special that a non christain can not walk in you must really think God fancys you and think you are truly better then everyone. People are so Judgemental This is not the Love of GOD
 
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andreha

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-Too what purpose does hell serve God?

-What is heaven if my loved ones and family is not there?

-Why shall i strive to join any religion if i only feel its too be good and because i fear in something so stupid as hell?

-WHY DO RELIGIONS SEGREGATE??? Catholics,Christians , Jews ( The chosen people)

-On that note they do not believe in Christ yet they are Gods chosen?

-Even if i believe yet i treat others terribly why do i deserve salvation?

-We keep faith when we are in fear of our lives yet we keep doing bad things we can not accept the fact of an unconditional loving God that is why we believe GOD must have rules he must!

I dont mean to spread hate or push my believe on ANYONE! these are some of the few questions that keep me away from ever stepping inside a church

I feel i only go there to be good and i feel more spiritual now then i ever did before when i went to church

Please help answer some of these questions i dont know where to post

The love God has for His children goes well beyond human understanding. God has a way of reaching out to people in a way that is impossible to resist. For that reason, I believe you will be quite pleasantly surprised one day. Even if someone tries his level best to resist the Lord's influence, they still fail to resist in their final moments. Many people start seeing into the spiritual realms before they die. I know of people who died, went to hell, and *then* heard God telling them to call on the name of Jesus - and got saved, came back to life and became pastors.

Why wait until the end to start serving the Lord? It such a rocky road to go through life on your own. The benefit's of being a Christian don't only start when you die - that's the truth. There were so many times when I needed help, asked the Lord and received. Being a Christian is not about being perfect - I'm certainly not. If I had to tell you about all the stuff that I did in this life, your hair would probably stand on end. But God loves me anyway. And if He loves me, He certainly loves you.

The thing with churches is that they are run by ordinary humans. Humans who also make mistakes. That's why some people never go to church again after one terrible disappointment. If you don't feel comfortable in one church, then the Lord probably wants you to go elsewhere. Since love is the highest commandment, people in church should treat each other with love and kindness. Remember, the Lord doesn't require you to try and be perfect. He does want us to at least try and live a life of love and kindness. The main thing is the effect we have on others. That way, you'll have an awesome life. People who condemn or judge you are heading for danger themselves. Don't go to a church where the people judge you. You don't need that. You need love, kindness and respect. A church should be a place you look forward to attend - not dread it.

Ask the Lord to lead you in His will. Tell Him about your fears, hurt, pain and disappointments. He knows all of it, but wants to hear it from you. Just be completely honest before Him. You'll see how He can reveal His love for you. Trust me, He is really awesome.:amen:
 
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Bible2

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lostnotfallen posted in message #15 of this thread:

I don’t like when people just quote things from the bible.

Greetings.

Christians quote things from the Bible because it is the source of
the truth by which people get saved and can become perfect
(2 Timothy 3:15-17). Followers of Jesus have to continue in his
Word the Bible, for he said "If ye continue in my word, then are ye
my disciples indeed" (John 8:31). Christians have to obey Jesus'
commands in the Bible if they want to truly love him and know him
and God the Father (John 14:21-24) and if they want to be saved in
the end (Matthew 7:21, Hebrews 5:9, Romans 2:6-8). Christians
cannot just wander away from the Bible because they don't like
some of the things that it says (2 Timothy 4:2-4, 1 Timothy 4:1-2).

lostnotfallen posted in message #15 of this thread:

I believe there was a man named Jesus however what is getting me
is this Sins with God and Jesus being the only way for salvation.

Jesus is not only a man, but God become a man (John 1:1,14). He is
the only way to salvation (Acts 4:12, John 3:36, John 14:6) because
he is the only one who died for our sins on the Cross (Matthew 26:28)
and rose from the dead on the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

lostnotfallen posted in message #15 of this thread:

I do not believe in Satan I believe in God.

Both Satan/the devil and God/Jesus exist at the same time
(Zechariah 3:2, Matthew 4).

lostnotfallen posted in message #15 of this thread:

I don’t think there is some spiritual war going on…

There is a spiritual war going on (Ephesians 6:12).

lostnotfallen posted in message #15 of this thread:

Like God would loose or something

God isn't going to lose the spiritual war. At the second coming
of Jesus, he will send an angel to bind the devil in the bottomless
pit (Revelation 20:1-3). And ultimately the devil and all the fallen
angels will be cast into the lake of fire forever, along with all
unsaved humans (Revelation 20:10,15, Matthew 25:41,46).

lostnotfallen posted in message #15 of this thread:

So many questions…

The Bible is there to answer theological questions (2 Timothy 3:16).
 
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Bible2

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lostnotfallen posted in message #16 of this thread:

Do you really think you can Offend somthing so great as God? that
he will "Punish" Us

God punishes those he loves with chastening when they fall into
unrepentant sin, with the idea that this chastening should cause
them to want to repent (Revelation 3:19). For if they don't repent,
they will go to hell (Hebrews 10:26-27).

lostnotfallen posted in message #16 of this thread:

TO WHAT BENEFIT WOULD THAT DO GOD......

Hell serves to show God's wrath and make his power known
(Romans 9:22, Revelation 14:10-11).

lostnotfallen posted in message #16 of this thread:

People are so Judgemental This is not the Love of GOD

The true love of God is to warn people (cf. Proverbs 27:6a) that
they will go to hell if they don't repent from their sins (Luke 13:3,
Luke 12:5). The false love of the devil is to coddle people
(cf. Proverbs 27:6b) in their unrepentant sins and in their unbelief in
Jesus and his Gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4), so that they will end up
going to hell because of unrepentant sin and unbelief (Revelation 21:8).
 
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Albion

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Did jesus not spend time with those considered unclean? the leppers the sinners everyone??
Yes, but mercy and the demonstration of his identity are not the topic here. You may also note that although he spent time with such people, he did not say that this amounted to a blanket approval of whatever they did. Consider the incident of Jesus and the woman at the well, for example.

Are you telling me That Your church is so Special that a non christain can not walk in
Walk in? Oh, most Christian churches welcome all visitors. If you are speaking of membership, however, that's a different thing. The church is BY DEFINITION the assembly of those who have a certain commitment in common. It's not a social service agency or lonely hearts club.

you must really think God fancys you and think you are truly better then everyone.
We do think that God fancies his creation, yes. But no, we don't think we are better than anyone else.

People are so Judgemental This is not the Love of GOD
What do you want to discuss--judging, church membership, or God's love? They are not all the same.
 
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