How can I come back from being apostate? (Hebrews 6)

ToBeLoved

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I mentioned in my writing that it was never truly about the lord at any point
You know, I think this may be positive for you. If you never committed yourself to Christ, then why not commit yourself to Christ now and just begin?

In this case, Hebrews 6 would not be pertinent to you because Hebrews 6 is talking about someone who is saved or committed to Christ turning away.

Why not just tell God that you believe and want to know Him and can He help you understand who He is and how to walk with Him everyday. With you as His child and Him as your God.
 
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Strong in Him

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Maybe you felt that it was never about the Lord; it seems the demons felt otherwise.
Remember, when Paul was in jail he said that some people only preached the Gospel out of selfish ambition and to make trouble for him - i.e with wrong motives, Philippians 1:17. Then he said; "what does it matter? In every way, Christ is preached." Philippians 1:18.

Maybe that was happening to you? YOU never felt it was about making Jesus Lord, but it was still enough to threaten demons.
Or maybe it was just opposition to the Gospel?
 
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Curtis697

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Demons are disembodied spirits. The seek to occupy human vessels. When i came around, the demons began manifesting through him. I myself was demon possessed when younger.. and had a minister cast it out of me. I would try eating my own skin, eating domestic animals Alive, ect. I know first hard how to tell when a person is demonized. I didn't post this to convince people of this subject matter.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Well you had the experience not me, so I will trust that you know what was going on.

It does seem to me though that certain people attract supernatural experiences for some reason and usually have them and others do not.

Maybe because of what happened when you were younger, that attracted a demon to you for some reason.

But IMHO, this is all the more reason to get grounded in Christ. Because as Christians we can put on the armour of God. Read these verses.

Ephesians 6:10-17

10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in His mighty power. 11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you can make your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this world's darkness, and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

13 Therefore take up the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you will be able to stand your ground, and having done everything, to stand. 14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth fastened around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness arrayed, 15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness of the gospel of peace. 16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
 
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Strong in Him

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To be continued; I need to go out.

Continued.

1. If a person is indulged in the things of God to the extent that I was, and does not backslide, but rather consciously turns their back on the faith.. then it is impossible that they, under any circumstance, ever return to repentance.

I've read, and heard, of people who've done just that - been faithful Christians, sinned, become proud, had an affair or whatever, were found out and humbled, genuinely repented and were restored.
If that interpretation were correct, this could never happen.


I don't believe either is.

A lot of problems are not so much with the words that the Bible says, but how we apply them to our lives today.
As I said, Hebrews was written to a specific group of people, facing a problem and being tempted in a special kind of way. Never mind the commentators, have you asked God to show you the meaning of these verses; if, or how, they apply to your life? Or have you just read the words, and your guilt over your sin and rebellion has filled in the blanks, and you've made it about you?

Does anybody have anything that I have missed? Does anybody have insight or a first hand experience related to this? All answered are greatly appreciated.

I've certainly sinned, repented, been forgiven, sinned and been forgiven again.
As a child I was unable to believe that God loved me, so I denied it and dismissed Scripture verses. I really thought I was being humble in saying that God didn't love me. Maybe there were some reasons why I was unable to accept and believe this simple truth - the fact is, though, that I dismissed what Scripture said and kept throwing it back in God's face. Yet he was SO patient and didn't give up on me.

It took time for me to realise what was going on, repent and accept his love. I still don't understand why he would love me - but his love, today, is so precious.


I haven't quoted all the rest of your story. But it seems to me that the only "crazy" thing about it is that the Lord keeps nudging, prompting, talking to you and even giving you visions; you accept them for a while, even to the point of being blessed/moved by them, then you turn away, reject them and go back to how it was before.
It is crazy because one day you won't be given another chance - you'll either not hear from God at all, because you keep pushing him away; or you'll have a fatal accident/illness, not be able to repent and have to deal with the consequences.

This is none of my business, I may be wrong and you don't have to read my post; but to be blunt, what do you want?
You can either thank God for not giving up on you, heed all the promptings and visions and finally acknowledge his love for you and Lordship in your life; or you can play at being a Christian, take the good stuff but turn your back again as soon as something more attractive comes along.

It seems to me that God is showing you just how much he loves you and wants you to be his. Saying "yes" to that and his Lordship, may be hard and involve repentance, but it will doubtless be the best thing you ever do.
Or, you can keep on rejecting him.


No.
We may all say, "I can't help sinning/rejecting God's love and am unable to repent" - circumstances may lead us to say that. But there is such a thing as personal responsibility too.
You chose to "turn back to the world" on various occasions; Hebrews 6 didn't make you.
You chose to listen to your friend's vision for a while, but then you chose not to - you proposed to that girl; Hebrews 6 didn't make you do it.
You've just said, you CHOSE to marry her; Hebrews 6 didn't make you do that.
 
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Curtis697

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I feel your two responses are the best here and speak to me the most. Honestly, I don't think I wany God or the christian life. But i want to want to.. if that makes sense. I'm not sure how to change my heart. If even possible.
 
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Curtis697

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I don't believe i was ever truly saved
 
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Curtis697

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Ever since I was young, I would see spirits. They would appear to me in my room, torture me, torture my family, ect. There was a night we had to sleep in walmart because they physically manifeated in our home. My dad said they threw me across the room. I'll never forget that night as long as i live. Since i was young i would have dreams and vision showing me future events, that would happen with frightening accuracy.. i'm just receptive to that realm. I believe the vision about my wife was from the Holy Ghost. I've had similar visions from the Holu Ghost before and I have learned how to distinguish between a Rhema/Inward vision from the Holy Ghost, and demonic visions. The bible even says the Holy sprit will show you things to come.
I just don't know whats wrong with me. Why do i keep turning my back on God? One day, I will devote my soul completely to him. Then, I will go to sleep, and for the next 2 weeks, completely lose all care for God, and the things of Him.
 
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Invalidusername

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If the Holy Spirit is giving you visions then you haven't been abandoned. Why would the Holy Spirit reveal anything to an apostate?

You have a lot more hope than me.
 
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Strong in Him

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I feel your two responses are the best here and speak to me the most. Honestly, I don't think I wany God or the christian life. But i want to want to.. if that makes sense. I'm not sure how to change my heart. If even possible.

It sounds very much like you " want to want to" - hence your very honest thread on this forum.
Have you told God that you want to want to? Or if you're not sure that you're there yet, could you tell him that you're willing to be made willing?

I am certain that what he wants is your cooperation he will do all the rest. He has done so many amazing things thorough you already, even when your motives may have been less than pure. Just think what he could do with your agreement and commitment.

His love truly is amazing, awesome, eternal - and he has chose to lavish this on YOU, 1 John 3:1. He created you in love, planned to do so and it gave him pleasure, Ephesians 1:3-5.

I find that just reflecting on this pure, awesome love for a sinner like me, increases my love for him.

God bless you
 
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Curtis697

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See and that's why I came up with the second interpretion i wrote of Hebrews 6. It's as if saying, "It is impossible for any man to bring back an apostate, because the apostate is crucifying Jesus afresh as long as he persists."
The problem is that in different translations, the present particicles are modified.. and i cannot come to the same conclusion with them being modified.
 
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Curtis697

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If the Holy Spirit is giving you visions then you haven't been abandoned. Why would the Holy Spirit reveal anything to an apostate?

You have a lot more hope than me.
If I have hope, then you have hope.
 
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Invalidusername

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If I have hope, then you have hope.

I have no convictions of sin. I have no Godly remorse. I cannot feel love for anyone. The only "hope" that I have is that I'm attempting to restore my relationship with God.

Anyways my point is, you're getting visions. That's either good or bad depending on where they are from. If they are from the Holy Spirit then you have much reason to have hope. The Holy Spirit would never reveal anything to an apostate.

When you said you were done with God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit did you 100% mean it or did you just say it out of anger and a temporary bitterness? For me I never actually said that but I did resist the promptings of the Holy Spirit over a long duration of time until I no longer heard His voice. I am guessing you did the same. Your "yes" to God basically became "no". However when I resisted, I never intended for it to be permanent. Maybe you were the same way?
 
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Curtis697

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I don't recall them going much into it. Probably wasn't paying attention.
To your last question: i appreciate all of the responses to the people who actually mindfully read the entire post of mine, rather than jump to a conclusion after seeing a few, key trigger words, as a few people here did.

To your middle question:
I already knew that upon posting this, Jewish believers were returning from the faith to their old way of doing things. However, I do not accept that this scritpure only applies to them. That's like saying when Jesus said, "forgive 70 times 7 times," that he was only saying it to his disciples at the time of a Jewish dispensation, so it no longer applies to us today.
Again, I've spent 100 hours studying this scripture. I have thouroughly looked into what they're claiming it means, yet still find my two interpretations to be the most logical, and biblically sound, according to scripture.
 
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ToBeLoved

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What it is really saying Curtis is that salvation cannot be lost. Although 'we' decide we are finished with God, He is faithful to the Covenant He makes with us. Christians love to talk about the people or person who turned their back on Christ, but God doesn't turn His back on us.

Jesus said, "I will never leave you or forsake you".

The verse says that it is impossible to recrucify Christ, because each believer goes through a spiritual process with Christ. So if someone went through that process and were baptized into Christ's death, our former self crucified with Christ and we are ressurected with Christ a new man, then we cannot undo all that and redo it again.

Romans 6
3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7for he who has died is freed from sin.

8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. 10For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.

20For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. 22But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
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Curtis697

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When i told God I was done with Him, I began sinning as much as i possibly could with the specific intention of permanantly silencing His voice.
 
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Invalidusername

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When i told God I was done with Him, I began sinning as much as i possibly could with the specific intention of permanantly silencing His voice.

I see. Btw I agree with your interpretations of Hebrews 6. A lot of people try to twist that passage into something super complicated when it's so simple a 6 year old could understand it.

Hebrews 6 summarized by me: don't commit apostasy because there might be no coming back.

May we both find God's grace and mercy.
 
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FutureAndAHope

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For my thoughts on the unpardonable sin go to Is there an unpardonable sin, what is blasphemy of the holy spirit.

But basically the cross of Christ was a righteous life, for a life time of sins.

Heb 9:27-28 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people;

The cross covers any sin we may commit in the body during our life time. To say that the cross is no longer available means we have physically died in our sins, we have died bodily while still in unbelief and sin.

1Jn 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

Note that Paul says that any sin that is not taken to the grave is forgivable, we are just not to pray for peoples sins once they die. It means that if God has left us alive he is seeking eternal life for us, he wants us restored. We are to pray for life for the sinning believer while they live. It is only if you die in sin that it is too late.

So Hebrews 6 could be written:

Heb 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away [into a state of unbelief, and die in it], to renew them again unto repentance [to a change of mind]; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh [demand a fresh sacrifice of the Son of God], and put him to an open shame.
 
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ToBeLoved

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If the Holy Spirit is giving you visions then you haven't been abandoned. Why would the Holy Spirit reveal anything to an apostate?

You have a lot more hope than me.
Not all visions are from good spirits. God says to test the spirits and see if they are of God.

Many people attach visions or other things to the Holy Spirit that may not be.

1 John 4:1-2
1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God. For many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you will know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God
 
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Curtis697

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No, I don't think so. Because and the end it says "because they are crucifying to themselves the son of God afresh..." in the present tense. With your interpretation, it would be past tense.
 
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