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I would tell you to study the Word and pray.
It makes perfect sense to me how he presented himself to the people of the ANE (assuming he did). What doesn't make sense is why he still thinks that is sufficient for our modern culture. An update is required - that is not meant to sound condescending, but is the best way that I can think of expressing my feeling on the matter.
The concern here is that we have to keep returning to the Bible as proof of Gods current existence. If I had total trust in the 2000 year old documents that would be no problem. Unfortunately I don't. There are many factors that create doubt (time passed, word of mouth errors, hidden agendas, etc).
Ok, but what clue or reason, would get me to spend a great deal of time and effort on investigating Christianity rather than say: Islam, Hinduism, Astrology, Astronomy, Biology, Evolution or any other subject that tries to make more sense of life?
But why would I? Studying the Word is a difficult and prolonged task. Praying is pointless unless I believe its going to be heard and given appropriate attention.
What would convince me to start down the path of studying and praying?
I would like to know how (as a current agnostic) I could explore and perhaps be convinced that there is a God who is currently present in our every day lives?
Perhaps put another way: If I woke up with amnesia tomorrow, how could you try and convince me that God still exists?
I too seem to be suffering from the same doubt you do and I was someone who spent my entire life in a Christian school. I tend to ask myself why an all-powerful God would rely on mankind and human witnessing to tell everyone he loves them instead of just being direct. It has never made sense to me. It's silly and inefficient. I also ask myself why other man-made religions can effortlessly produce their own version of a divinely inspired and irreplaceable book like the Bible and how billions can be so easily deceived by it.Human witnesses are horribly unreliable. Conflicting crime reports and differing views from fans at a sporting events are common examples. And those are first hand examples. It gets worse as the story is retold. Then lets factor in hidden agendas.
Most of the laymen discussions I've entered into about whether God exists tend to focus on how the world was created and whether Jesus existed. The arguments seem to be vague and go round and round without much resolution, mainly because of the time that has lapsed since those events.
I would like to know how (as a current agnostic) I could explore and perhaps be convinced that there is a God who is currently present in our every day lives?
Perhaps put another way: If I woke up with amnesia tomorrow, how could you try and convince me that God still exists?
I too seem to be suffering from the same doubt you do and I was someone who spent my entire life in a Christian school. I tend to ask myself why an all-powerful God would rely on mankind and human witnessing to tell everyone he loves them instead of just being direct.
It has never made sense to me. It's silly and inefficient.
I also ask myself why other man-made religions can effortlessly produce their own version of a divinely inspired and irreplaceable book like the Bible and how billions can be so easily deceived by it.
When I saw what Mormons were able to do I was even more shaken. They were able to actually add their own nonsense to the Bible and no one was the wiser.
Then it hit me, no human here or anywhere really knows how to recognize a book that came from God.
No religious person I've met has the slightest idea about who they really put their faith in, they just like to recite things that sound nice.
The best and most respectful way of gleaning proof of Gods existence from the ancient text is through logic and deduction. This then is the purpose of hermeneutical study and why it is necessary
Time has no bearing in and of itself on truth. Word of mouth literacy is what the ANE depended upon and since it was their method of literacy, it was dependable. The practice of oral transmission of narratives was not done haphazardly and that is because the transmission of truth depended upon the ability of the orators to be accurate. Homers Illiad and Odyssey are examples of the power, complexity, and sophistication of oral literature.
Agendizing was not as much an occurrence due to the rules that were involved in copying the texts by the scribes. The scribes were not prone to a great deal of chicanery but when there are questions in the accuracy of textual transmission from the original texts to more recent ones, the art and science of textual criticism has helped in returning us to the original.
Perhaps you will find this simulating enough to investigate Gods Word deeper. This formulation is taken from Ravi Zacharias:
There are three tests for determining truth:
1. Logical consistency.
2. Empirical adequacy.
3. Experiential relevance.
How could you explore and perhaps be convinced that there is a God? By studying the Word. Why would you? I don't know. You tell me. You asked how you could explore, I gave an answer. It's up to you to step through the metaphorical door.
... if one grants the God revealed in Scripture, one must necessarily grant His eternality and the dependency of all reality upon Him. If one grants these things, then the fact that the universe exists is evidence that God exists; for the universe can only exist if God exists.
I think dying on a cross at the hands of wicked men to atone for the sins of all humanity is about as direct an expression of love as you can ever hope to get. God didn't just say to all the world, "I love you," but proved it with the most incredible demonstration of sacrificial love I have ever encountered. Do you expect Him to make the same demonstration for every single person who has ever come into existence? That seems rather unreasonable to me...
It is certainly extravagant; but silly? No, not silly. God wasn't interested in efficiency when He showed His love to humanity, but mercy, grace and sacrificial love.
No one was the wiser? I don't think so. From the first moment Joseph Smith's "addition" was publicly offered, Christian people rejected the Book of Mormon for the nonsense that it was.
I have a perfectly good and reasonable criteria by which to determine the divine origin of a text.
In response to the post.
Don't doubt.
It is a fearful thing to doubt God.
Oh dear, I'm going to get a bit side tracked here. I didn't want to really discuss the interpretation of the bible, but rather an alternative current mechanism.
Not sure which post, but don't think that really matters.
I'm sorry, but I do doubt and I'm currently looking for a reason to start travelling down the road of trying to reduce that doubt. But at the moment that road looks long and daunting. I need a pretty good reason to head down it.
I left organised religion and became agnostic....
I would like to know how (as a current agnostic) I could explore and perhaps be convinced that there is a God who is currently present in our every day lives?
Well at least you came to the wrong place. :/
Now doubt, it can be tough to head down a road when clinging onto so much burden.
Can't go wrong saying yes to goodness.
I left organised religion and became agnostic.
I saw no evidence that God was present in my everyday life, but then why should he be, I was master of my own destiny, I chose my ways, my thoughts.
then I met people who were different, they had what I was loking for ... fulfilling purpose, contentment, confidence based on experience not argument etc.
They had done what God says man needs to do, receive His Spirit ("born again"), like the disciples (Acts 2:4, 39; 1 Cor. 14:2, 4)
To cut the story short, when I came to a point of whiole-heartedly wanting that I found God.
If Scripture is true, Jesus' sacrifice was unique because he was the perfect son of God. It was his divine, sinless perfection that was vital to his atonement for sin. No martyr has ever been able to claim divine, sinless perfection.I've never understood this fully. Millions have been martyred or killed for their beliefs or values. What makes this incident so different? Is it because he claimed to be the son of God?
Christ's sacrifice wasn't just a demonstration of love but was also the means by which God's justice was satisfied. Calvary wasn't just about God saying, "I'm here and I love you," but about Jesus being "the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world."Could he not consider some other type of demonstration, not necessarily of sacrificial love, just that he is still here? I think that's reasonable.
This is the thinking of one who has not understood well who God is and how completely undeserving of His love and mercy we are. The very act of God taking on human form, of becoming man, was excessive in the extreme! There was enormous humiliation in such an act. God lowered Himself from His Supreme, glorified, transcendent, heavenly estate and in the Person of Christ became a weak, tiny (sub-microscopic, really, in the context of the entire universe), grubby human being. And the humiliation didn't stop there! He took upon Himself the role of a servant, serving ignorant, and selfish, and antagonistic humanity first as teacher and healer, and then, at the hands of evil men, as a sacrifice. This was all done, not because we deserved for it to be done. Not hardly! God had perfect right to do the very opposite! He was under no obligation whatever to save us from our sins. But God's extravagant love and grace provoked Him to redeem us through blood atonement from the just punishment of our sin.I don't think its silly either, I think that's just Alex's frustration coming through. I don't think its extravagant either though. He apparently sent one human form to us 2000 years ago. It may well have been an important form for him. However extravagant would have been to send thousands of these son forms to every community on Earth, and to continue doing so on a regular basis. Throw in a unworldly entrance and exit and that would be even more extravagant.
Nope sorry, the lack of extravagance is what concerns me. Its raised the possibility, however small, that Jesus may have been a mortal man.
1.) Thematic unity.Would you be prepared to share?
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