How can God be simultaneously a Trinity of Persons, and yet one?

[faroukfarouk]

Yes and no, the wording is difficult, I point back to the creed:

• Neither confounding the Persons; nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal.
• The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited.
  
• So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty.
  
• So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God.
  
• But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal.
  
• Perfect God; and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.
  
• Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father as touching his Manhood.

There's plenty of evidence for Father, Son and Holy Spirit in Scripture; John's Gospel, John's Epistles and Revelation for example would be impossible to conceive of, otherwise.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

This is something that's bugged me for quite a while and I can't seem to get my head around it.
I constantly see things which, to my mind, seem to contradict, sometimes God is referred to as part or the whole of the Holy Trinity, but then in the Creeds, we profess that we believe in one God.
In short, I struggle with the idea of 3-in-1 and 1-in-3 aspect of God

I struggle with it too logically it doesn't make sense.

In any other faith if you have 3 distinct persons persons they are 3 gods.... or even in society...you have 3 people who hold the same office of cop...but becuase they are distinct persons they are 3 cops , yet based off the trinity that logic that applies everywhere else isn't a factor.



3 distinct persons yet somehow one God despite being 3 different people.


Now certian trinitarian apologist or the ones who seem to grasp the concept better suggest God is a "what" rather then a who... if you go off that sure then the trinity logically works just fine. However, God refers to himself as "he" "who" "I" in scripture so it's like eh. Also most people see God as a who then again apologist suggest most don't understand the trinity so.

But if most can't even grasp it now (and we have the smartest collection of generations of people to ever live supposedly) ....hard to believe anyone back then could understand this.

 

[Grip Docility]

This is something that's bugged me for quite a while and I can't seem to get my head around it.
I constantly see things which, to my mind, seem to contradict, sometimes God is referred to as part or the whole of the Holy Trinity, but then in the Creeds, we profess that we believe in one God.
In short, I struggle with the idea of 3-in-1 and 1-in-3 aspect of God

I see the Son as God’s Body... the Holy Spirit as the Soul of God and the Father as the Mind of God.

God’s Mind, Body and Soul can function independent and clearly have a CoEternal relationship that is Eternal.

The apostles actually baptized in the Name of Jesus...

I fully believe the Father and Son are unique to One Another... but the (Three bodies or separate persons concept is actually extra biblical)

In the end... our Tri Une God is the biggest mystery of all... but... Jesus was the full revelation of what we know as ... “The Godhead”...

All The Best to you...

 

[klutedavid]

So why do we often talk about God as one Person, for example Exodus 3:14, we are given that God is called 'I AM WHO I AM', so why is it possible to ignore that and assume that God is three Persons in 1? If God wasn't a singular being, Exodus 3:14 would surely read 'WE ARE WHO WE ARE', no?

These verses from Exodus 3, could in fact be a Christophany. Everyone assumes of course that the Father, is speaking from the burning bush. Yet others assume that the pre-incarnate Christ is the one speaking.

What is your view and why?

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

The Old Testament writers recital of prayers allways said Holy three times, as to point to three Holy personas of the one God.

...that's a weird conclusion usually 3 just represents completion in the bible... I mean it seems if anything it just was a complete prayer I mean.

 

[The Times]

...that's a weird conclusion usually 3 just represents completion in the bible... I mean it seems if anything it just was a complete prayer I mean.

When the priest said it, he said it as follows....

Holy......pause
Holy......pause
Holy

The pauses, are there purposely to distinguish one Holy from the other, as the priest would be in a prayer supplication to God.

Without the pauses, it would be a count of three, yet the pauses highlight that the priest is supplicating to the ONE God, three times, as if to personally address three personal Holies, within the ONE God. The priest is therefore considering three persons.

In Revelation 4:8, three Holies are recited and correlated to the descriptors of the three persons, within the one Godhead. This is done as follows.....

11“You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, (Rev 4:11)

Let us consider the three descriptors Glory, Honor and Power. Remember that Jesus in Acts 1:8 said....

You will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you;

This is the anointing, the Holy Spirit empowerment from up on high. Notice in Rev 4:11 power is the third.

Let us continue.....

Remember when Jesus said......

23that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him. (John 5:23)

In the Psalmist, it writes......

Kiss his son, or he will be angry and your way will lead to your destruction, for his wrath can flare up in a moment. (Psalm 2:12)

Notice, that honour is the second descriptor that correlates to the sequence of Holy (pause), Holy (pause), Holy mentioned in Revelation 4:8.

Finally, we arrive at the first descriptor glory.

After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. (John 17:1)

In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven. (Matthew 5:16)

So in sequence to......

Holy (pause), Holy (pause), Holy

You have the descriptors.....

Glory (Father), Honor (Son), Power (Holy Spirit).

I can use Old Testament scriptures along the same exegetical method and will end up with the same Holy corresponding to the same descriptor in sequence.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

When the priest said it, he said it as follows....

Holy......pause
Holy......pause
Holy

The pauses, are there purposely to distinguish one Holy from the other, as the priest would be in a prayer supplication to God.

Without the pauses, it would be a count of three, yet the pauses highlight that the priest is supplicating to the ONE God, three times, as if to personally address three personal Holies, within the ONE God. The priest is therefore considering three persons.

In Revelation 4:8, three Holies are recited and correlated to the descriptors of the three persons, within the one Godhead. This is done as follows.....

11“You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, (Rev 4:11)

Let us consider the three descriptors Glory, Honor and Power. Remember that Jesus in Acts 1:8 said....

You will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you;

This is the anointing, the Holy Spirit empowerment from up on high. Notice in Rev 4:11 power is the third.

Let us continue.....

Remember when Jesus said......

23that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him. (John 5:23)

In the Psalmist, it writes......

Kiss his son, or he will be angry and your way will lead to your destruction, for his wrath can flare up in a moment. (Psalm 2:12)

Notice, that honour is the second descriptor that correlates to the sequence of Holy (pause), Holy (pause), Holy mentioned in Revelation 4:8.

Finally, we arrive at the first descriptor glory.

After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. (John 17:1)

In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven. (Matthew 5:16)

So in sequence to......

Holy (pause), Holy (pause), Holy

You have the descriptors.....

Glory (Father), Honor (Son), Power (Holy Spirit).

I can use Old Testament scriptures along the same exegetical method and will end up with the same Holy corresponding to the same descriptor in sequence.

But

When the priest said it, he said it as follows....

Holy......pause
Holy......pause
Holy

The pauses, are there purposely to distinguish one Holy from the other, as the priest would be in a prayer supplication to God.

Without the pauses, it would be a count of three, yet the pauses highlight that the priest is supplicating to the ONE God, three times, as if to personally address three personal Holies, within the ONE God. The priest is therefore considering three persons.

In Revelation 4:8, three Holies are recited and correlated to the descriptors of the three persons, within the one Godhead. This is done as follows.....

11“You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, (Rev 4:11)

Let us consider the three descriptors Glory, Honor and Power. Remember that Jesus in Acts 1:8 said....

You will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you;

This is the anointing, the Holy Spirit empowerment from up on high. Notice in Rev 4:11 power is the third.

Let us continue.....

Remember when Jesus said......

23that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him. (John 5:23)

In the Psalmist, it writes......

Kiss his son, or he will be angry and your way will lead to your destruction, for his wrath can flare up in a moment. (Psalm 2:12)

Notice, that honour is the second descriptor that correlates to the sequence of Holy (pause), Holy (pause), Holy mentioned in Revelation 4:8.

Finally, we arrive at the first descriptor glory.

After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. (John 17:1)

In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven. (Matthew 5:16)

So in sequence to......

Holy (pause), Holy (pause), Holy

You have the descriptors.....

Glory (Father), Honor (Son), Power (Holy Spirit).

I can use Old Testament scriptures along the same exegetical method and will end up with the same Holy corresponding to the same descriptor in sequence.

john 5:23 seems to contradict what you’re suggesting though since it honors the father and the son. Not to mention the Holy Spirit is often referred to as the Spirit of Christ so power also would go with the son wouldn’t it? Jesus is even called the power and wisdom of God... so to say power would just go with the Holy Spirit eh idk. I see where you came to your conclusion now though but it’s just hard to prove.

 

[The Times]

But

john 5:23 seems to contradict what you’re suggesting though since it honors the father and the son. Not to mention the Holy Spirit is often referred to as the Spirit of Christ so power also would go with the son wouldn’t it? Jesus is even called the power and wisdom of God... so to say power would just go with the Holy Spirit eh idk. I see where you came to your conclusion now though but it’s just hard to prove.

I provided you a succinct explanation using Revelation 4:8, so why go elsewhere?

What are you looking for?

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I struggle with it too logically it doesn't make sense.

In any other faith if you have 3 distinct persons persons they are 3 gods.... or even in society...you have 3 people who hold the same office of cop...but becuase they are distinct persons they are 3 cops , yet based off the trinity that logic that applies everywhere else isn't a factor.



3 distinct persons yet somehow one God despite being 3 different people.


Now certian trinitarian apologist or the ones who seem to grasp the concept better suggest God is a "what" rather then a who... if you go off that sure then the trinity logically works just fine. However, God refers to himself as "he" "who" "I" in scripture so it's like eh. Also most people see God as a who then again apologist suggest most don't understand the trinity so.

But if most can't even grasp it now (and we have the smartest collection of generations of people to ever live supposedly) ....hard to believe anyone back then could understand this.

We are dumbed down, not smarter...
Please see that YHWH is Spirit, and a self existing multiplicity of three , and only three, Persons.
The One image of YHWH is God the Word, who was to come and is come in the same image He created Adam in [Genesis 1:26-28, and Romans 5:14], but as the New Man, He is without sin -just like Adam was, when he was made by Him, made in His "own, one, image", which was to come.
As the New Creation human being, His name is not "Adam", as to the human nature/spirit, and flesh, but "Israel" [Genesis 5:2, and Isaiah 49] as to the nature/Spirit and flesh of New Creation human being Kinsman/Redeemer, and therefore only "Brother", to the "Adam".

YHWH is Spirit, and manifested in the flesh of the New creation human being as our own Kinsman Redeemer, and is the Son of God of human being kind who is now the everlasting Father, who will never die -Isaiah 9.
So Adam is one spirit/nature, flesh, bone and blood, and made male and female so as to build up the house for the Glory to indwell -the invisible Glory- and YHWH is the Spirit, YHWH/Life/Breath.
You are an Adam person. I am an Adam person. Jesus is a YHWH Person, He is not the Father, He is not the Spirit.
You are not me, I am not you, but we are "one Adam", and multiplied persons, and Adam is multiplying.

Israel is multiplying as to the spirit/nature which each Adam person who is born from above is born into, and adopted, therefore, into; and we have the hope of Glory in receiving the flesh body to go with the seed of the Spirit in us, of the New Nature which we received at new birth.
Jesus promises to write on us His New Name. At the regeneration of our old man nature's flesh we get the New Man nature's flesh. That is to say, brand new DNA, and then we will never be called "Adam" again.
Get it?

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

I provided you a succinct explanation using Revelation 4:8, so why go elsewhere?

What are you looking for?

I’m not looking for anything I just don’t see what you claim to see in revelations 4:8. It’s just giving glory and honor to Our Lord and our God. It just seems you’re making this difficult for no reason. Why add to the text is where I’m getting at.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

We are dumbed down, not smarter...
Please see that YHWH is Spirit, and a self existing multiplicity of three , and only three, Persons.
The One image of YHWH is God the Word, who was to come and is come in the same image He created Adam in [Genesis 1:26-28, and Romans 5:14], but as the New Man, He is without sin -just like Adam was, when he was made by Him, made in His "own, one, image", which was to come.
As the New Creation human being, His name is not "Adam", as to the human nature/spirit, and flesh, but "Israel" [Genesis 5:2, and Isaiah 49] as to the nature/Spirit and flesh of New Creation human being Kinsman/Redeemer, and therefore only "Brother", to the "Adam".

YHWH is Spirit, and manifested in the flesh of the New creation human being as our own Kinsman Redeemer, and is the Son of God of human being kind who is now the everlasting Father, who will never die -Isaiah 9.
So Adam is one spirit/nature, flesh, bone and blood, and made male and female so as to build up the house for the Glory to indwell -the invisible Glory- and YHWH is the Spirit, YHWH/Life/Breath.
You are an Adam person. I am an Adam person. Jesus is a YHWH Person, He is not the Father, He is not the Spirit.
You are not me, I am not you, but we are "one Adam", and multiplied persons, and Adam is multiplying.

Israel is multiplying as to the spirit/nature which each Adam person who is born from above is born into, and adopted, therefore, into; and we have the hope of Glory in receiving the flesh body to go with the seed of the Spirit in us, of the New Nature which we received at new birth.
Jesus promises to write on us His New Name. At the regeneration of our old man nature's flesh we get the New Man nature's flesh. That is to say, brand new DNA, and then we will never be called "Adam" again.
Get it?

I agree we are dumbed down I'm not saying we aren't, I guess what i'm saying is we know more about science, technology...medicine, math etc. is what i'm saying.

I agree we are dumbed down in regards to certain things but IQ wise the collective of generations we have are just amazing.

Now you could argue we are dumbed down in regards to our critical thinking ability....but I think because of that IQ factor and all the knowledge we have...I still feel if something makes sense we can for sure grasp it.



I understand your explanation I can't say I would agree but I get what you're saying very informative I appreciate your reply.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

We are dumbed down, not smarter...
Please see that YHWH is Spirit, and a self existing multiplicity of three , and only three, Persons.
The One image of YHWH is God the Word, who was to come and is come in the same image He created Adam in [Genesis 1:26-28, and Romans 5:14], but as the New Man, He is without sin -just like Adam was, when he was made by Him, made in His "own, one, image", which was to come.
As the New Creation human being, His name is not "Adam", as to the human nature/spirit, and flesh, but "Israel" [Genesis 5:2, and Isaiah 49] as to the nature/Spirit and flesh of New Creation human being Kinsman/Redeemer, and therefore only "Brother", to the "Adam".

YHWH is Spirit, and manifested in the flesh of the New creation human being as our own Kinsman Redeemer, and is the Son of God of human being kind who is now the everlasting Father, who will never die -Isaiah 9.
So Adam is one spirit/nature, flesh, bone and blood, and made male and female so as to build up the house for the Glory to indwell -the invisible Glory- and YHWH is the Spirit, YHWH/Life/Breath.
You are an Adam person. I am an Adam person. Jesus is a YHWH Person, He is not the Father, He is not the Spirit.
You are not me, I am not you, but we are "one Adam", and multiplied persons, and Adam is multiplying.

Israel is multiplying as to the spirit/nature which each Adam person who is born from above is born into, and adopted, therefore, into; and we have the hope of Glory in receiving the flesh body to go with the seed of the Spirit in us, of the New Nature which we received at new birth.
Jesus promises to write on us His New Name. At the regeneration of our old man nature's flesh we get the New Man nature's flesh. That is to say, brand new DNA, and then we will never be called "Adam" again.
Get it?

One question though for clarification. So God basically based off what you said would be a "what" rather then who? You mention how we are all of Adam despite being different persons so wondering if you I guess that's how you view God?

 

[yeshuasavedme]

One question though for clarification. So God basically based off what you said would be a "what" rather then who? You mention how we are all of Adam despite being different persons so wondering if you I guess that's how you view God?

We are all "Adam" as to our name, in the Word of God, which the Creator named us -Genesis 1:26-28, and Genesis 5:2 [male and female made He them, and called their name Adam].. You and I are each "Adam", and we are persons in the Adam nature/spirit, for we all have the same remnant of the one Adam spirit, and our bodies are fleshed out at conception by that one Adam remnant of the Adam spirit for our soul to be housed in.
Gotta go, be back tomorrow to ans you.
-And God is "He", not "it", and we call Him Elohym, which is plural.
The Shema -did I spell that right, no time to check it out right now, but it states "Hear o Israel, YHWH our Elohym is One YHWH".

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

We are all "Adam" as to our name, in the Word of God, which the Creator named us -Genesis 1:26-28, and Genesis 5:2 [male and female made He them, and called their name Adam].. You and I are each "Adam", and we are persons in the Adam nature/spirit, for we all have the same remnant of the one Adam spirit, and our bodies are fleshed out at conception by that one Adam remnant of the Adam spirit for our soul to be housed in.
Gotta go, be back tomorrow to ans you.
-And God is "He", not "it", and we call Him Elohym, which is plural.
The Shema -did I spell that right, no time to check it out right now, but it states "Hear o Israel, YHWH our Elohym is One YHWH".

K we sort of agree I also believe we are all descendants from Adam I just believe we are born in with that sin from Adam (romans 5:12) but we differe on having that Adam spirit.

but if God is a he then wouldn't that be one person? Sure the term Elohym is plural but it has a singular connotation it seems when it's referring to God . For example terms like water, heaven, face, are plural in hebrew because of several dimensions to them, but when used they still refer to a something singular.

But anyway I just don't see why God wouldn't be considered a "what" rather then "he" in a 3 person layout I've listened to quite a few trinitarian apologist and quite a few of them go with "what" rather then he as well because it fits.

I'm not saying that's right, I see God as a he also ...but if you see God as a he...then it's one person isn't it?

Like if I say he went to the store... i'm talking about one person right?


ANd sounds good we will continue tomorrow

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

One question though for clarification. So God basically based off what you said would be a "what" rather then who? You mention how we are all of Adam despite being different persons so wondering if you I guess that's how you view God?

No. (I don't believe YHVH is a "what" in any way) WHO HE IS HE DESCRIBES PERFECTLY IN HIS WORD.

Rather, even just to begin with, to start to understand (like maybe the beginning of wisdom?)
willing
respect YHVH, respect HIS WORD, and like Shaul forget everything that lies behind, press forward to what lies ahead. (joyously and willingly obediently to YHVH, totally trusting Him and relying on Him abandoning self completely to Jesus by His Word, not as just a 'useful' activity to do to get ahead) .

Step by step learn from YHVH , praying frequently and reading His Word as if it is the only GOOD TRUTH on earth in the whole world ! (asking HIM openly and honestly to teach HIS WORD as HE SAYS/ while reading as HE accomplishes granting understanding as HE pleases to do so) .....

All the while, through His Entire Word (the Bible), reject anything that doesn't line up with everything in His Word perfectly. If not sure, wait on that while continuing in His Word Delighted in Him, meditating HIS WORD , thinking on HIS WORD all day and all night as HE says in PSALMS, and (AND) DOing the FATHER'S WORD as well as HEARING (be a DOER, not just a HEARER of HIS WORD; step by step as HE LEADS) .....

The results ? As He Says: righteousness, peace and joy, wisdom and experiential knowledge , dwelling in Union in Jesus with the Father.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I agree we are dumbed down in regards to certain things but IQ wise the collective of generations we have are just amazing.

Now you could argue we are dumbed down in regards to our critical thinking ability....but I think because of that IQ factor and all the knowledge we have...I still feel if something makes sense we can for sure grasp it.

YHVH'S WORD says rather that all that high iq of mankind leads mankind away from YHVH and opposed to Yahshua. Mankind is deceived and 'thinks' it can 'know' or grasp something,

YHVH'S Word says the natural man cannot grasp anything at all of spirit or truth.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

YHVH'S WORD says rather that all that high iq of mankind leads mankind away from YHVH and opposed to Yahshua. Mankind is deceived and 'thinks' it can 'know' or grasp something,

YHVH'S Word says the natural man cannot grasp anything at all of spirit or truth.

good point But I was saying one with the IQ of today...with the Spirit of God in them.... I'm sure someone like that would be able to grasp it is what i'm saying.


I don't mean someone high IQ but not a believer in God.

 

[Ron Gurley]

TRI-UNE GOD TRUTHS/DOCTRINE REVEALED!

God the Son, Jesus the God-Man is not the SAME as/IDENTICAL to God the Father,
nor is God the Son, Jesus the God-Man the SAME as/ IDENTICAL to God the Holy Spirit.
The spiritual Persons of the "Godhead" are discerned has having different:
RANKS, ROLES, MISSIONS, FUNCTIONS, NAMES, etc.
No one Person of the "Godhead" is identical to / the same as / "equal" to the other
>>>EXCEPT<<< in THEIR unity of "spiritual essence" AND divine nature. (1 Cor.12:13)

In many ROLES / FUNCTIONS, God the Father RANKS ABOVE both God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

For example:

Genesis 1:26-28 (NASB)...ALLOWS for a PLURAL GOD
26 Then God (Elohim - plural - pre-existent one) said,
“Let Us make man in Our (spiritual) image, according to Our (character) likeness;

Mattthew 3: 16-17: The Beginning of Jesus' Ministry: A glimpse of the TRI-UNE GOD
As soon as Jesus (God the Son) was baptized (immersed in river Jordan), he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God (God the Holy Spirit)
descending LIKE (in the form of) a dove and lighting on him.And a voice (God the Father) from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."

Mark 9:7
Then a cloud (God the Holy Spirit) formed, overshadowing them (God the Son +3), and a voice (God the Father) came out of the cloud,
“This is My beloved Son, listen to Him!”

John 14:26 (NIV)...a new promise by Jesus...a snapshot of the TRI-UNE God
"When the Counselor (God the Holy Spirit) comes,
whom I (God the Son/Jesus) will send to you from the Father (God the Father),
the Spirit of TRUTH (God the Holy Spirit) who goes out from the Father (God the Father),
he (the Spirit of TRUTH) will testify (to the spirit of Man) about me. (God the Son/Jesus)

John 14:26(NASB)
26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit,
whom the Father will send in My name,
He will teach you all things, and
bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

Matthew 28: 18 - The End of the Ministry - Post Resurrection and Pre-Ascension... The Great Commisssion
Then Jesus came to them (disciples) and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
Therefore
a. go and
b. make disciples of all nations,(convert unbelievers)
c. baptizing them (believers) in the name
of (God) the Father and
of (God) the Son and
of (God) the Holy Spirit,
and d. teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.
And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.

Colossians 2 :8-9;
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,
and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority.

Colossians 1 :15-19
For God was pleased to have all his fullness (of the Deity) dwell in Him,
and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven,
by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross

Phillipians 2...The Kenosis...Diety poured out into perfect flesh without loss or change in Deity

Romans 15:30 (NIV)...in prayer
I urge you, brothers, by our Lord Jesus Christ (God the Son/Jesus)
and by the love of the Spirit (God the Holy Spirit), to join me in my struggle
by praying to God (God the Father) for me.

2 Corinthians 13:14 (NIV)...in goodbyes
May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ (God the Son/Jesus) ,
and the love of God (God the Father),
and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit (God the Holy Spirit) be with you all.

 

[The Times]

I’m not looking for anything I just don’t see what you claim to see in revelations 4:8. It’s just giving glory and honor to Our Lord and our God. It just seems you’re making this difficult for no reason. Why add to the text is where I’m getting at.

There is every reason to look deeply into the text in order to establish understanding and wisdom. Failing to look deeply into the text or by generalising it, without paying attention to symbols and the sequence in which words are used, completely misses the message altogether.

The Holy, Holy Holy message is not just giving glory and honour to Our one God, it provides descriptors that designate personalities within the Godhead.

Let us look at the versus and then we can analyse the text.

8Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under its wings. Day and night they never stop saying:

“ ‘Holy, holy, holy

is the Lord God Almighty,’

who was, and is, and is to come.”

9Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever, 10the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:

11“You are worthy, our Lord and God,

to receive glory and honor and power,r

for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.”


Glory

[1391 (dóksa) literally means "what evokes good opinion

Honour

STRONGS NT 5092: τιμή

τιμή, τιμῆς, ἡ (from τίω, to estimate, honor, perfect passive τετιμαι), from Homer down, the Sept. for עֵרֶך (a valuing, rating), כָּבוד, יְקָר, הָדָר;

It is to rank someone, through a process of evaluation.

Power

STRONGS NT 1411: δύναμις

δύναμις, δυνάμεως, ἡ; (from Homer down); the Sept. for חַיִל, גְּבוּרָה, עֹז, כֹּחַ, צָבָא (an army, a host); strength, ability, power;

The Father is Glory, he does not need to be ranked in any way, nor does he need to show his ability or strength. He is beyond testing.

The Son is ranked, he is numbered and he is counted as worthy to receive glory, the Father's Glory that is.

The Holy Spirit is the one to whom all things are performed, according to the testimony of the Father and Son, he executes what he hears and performs them without fail.

You cannot say the Father is honoured or able (power), because Glory does not need to lift a finger up, so to speak, because he is Glory.

The Son is glorified through the Father, glorify me as you are Glory Oh Father.

The Holy Spirit is the one designated to manifest the ability and power of God, through his Living Word, who is honoured to be the LOGOS (spokesman) for the Father/Glory.

The sequence of descriptors correlate to their respective meanings and functions, that is as follows....

Holy (Father), Holy (Son), Holy (Spirit)

Glory (Father), Honour (Son), Power (Spirit)

I understand why Mormons incorrectly interpret the Holy Spirit as power, without personhood, but this would be exegetically wrong and it therefore highlights why each of those descriptors, Glory, Honour, Power are actually personalities within the Godhead.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

God is a he then wouldn't that be one person? Sure the term Elohym is plural

Echad. YHVH and Yahshua have always been Echad. (Forever eternally past before all time or anything ever existed, throughout forever future immeasurably without limit)
That's not all !
Jesus prayed in the GOSPEL for all the faithful disciples to be Echad with the Father and with the Son, same as the Father and the Son are Echad !
See also in PSALMS - the Ekklesia being Echad in heart;
and a few other places "Echad" in Scripture.

Also, remember man and wife are ONE, ONE FLESH..... no longer TWO but ONE.
And even if a man takes a woman in the field , or a disciple takes a prostitute,
they become ONE FLESH ! ! !


(btw, just in case: Watch out in case someone thinks or seems to say the soul of a man existed before he was conceived --- that's a very old heresy)