How big was...?

[Sabertooth]

Is there any information about the average height of the Hebrews in OT times?

I'm curious about eras like Noah, Joshua & Caleb, David & Jonathan and their larger enemies, the Nephalim, etc, since measurements were given in cubits.

If they were shorter than the average American, is the adjusted cubit length [theirs, not ours] taken into account during Bible translation?

 

[FreezBee]

You may want to take a peek at this page:

http://www.legon.demon.co.uk/canon.htm


Here's a quote:

The mean radius of 25.13 cm then yields a cubit of 44.16 cm. The difference from the previously-assumed small cubit of 45 cm is of course slight, but is sufficient to favour an origin for the royal cubit in the fraction of 6/5 of the small cubit, as opposed to that of 7/6. The ratio of 6:5 was in fact used by Sir Isaac Newton to obtain the length of the 'sacred cubit' of the Hebrews from their common cubit - the former measurement of six palms having been equal to 'a cubit and a handbreadth' according to Ezekiel (40,5).

- FreezBee

 

[Sabertooth]

...the length of the 'sacred cubit' of the Hebrews from their common cubit - the former measurement of six palms having been equal to 'a cubit and a handbreadth' according to Ezekiel (40,5).

This proportion should have remained constant regardless of their typical stature.

 

[FreezBee]

This proportion should have remained constant regardless of their typical stature.

Of course, proportions do not change, only, in this case, maybe the width of a palm or the length of the underarm.


- FreezBee

 

[heron]

Have you ever seen the old coats of armour in European castles and museums? They're tiny!

I think we could find out more with a search of archaological finds... bones from different eras and regions.

 

[justified]

or...how about...just look at the size of their houses?

 

[FreezBee]

Have you ever seen the old coats of armour in European castles and museums? They're tiny!

I think we could find out more with a search of archaological finds... bones from different eras and regions.

or...how about...just look at the size of their houses?

Yes, absolute measurements change, but proportions need not. Of course we'll need to measure on individuals from the appropriate time.

So here is more from John Legon:

This lends weight to my contention that the small cubit was in practice a variable measure, being equal in length to the forearm of the measurer and therefore falling within a range, I estimate, of about 42-46 cm for Egyptians of average stature. Gay Robins has indeed given measurements of 42.0 cm and 44.1 cm from the elbow to the fingertips of two complete mummies;40 but she has also derived values of 46.3 and 47.0 cm by adding the hand-lengths of two individuals to the mean length of ulna of nine mummies, as calculated from the mean radius using the proportion between these bones as indicated in photographs.

(my emphasis)


- FreezBee

 

[Sabertooth]

That seems like good information on Egyptian stature.

Looking at 1Chronicles 11:23, was it representative of the Hebrews? Or was this particular Egyptian exceptional?

 

[FreezBee]

Looking at 1Chronicles 11:23, was it representative of the Hebrews? Or was this particular Egyptian exceptional?

The Hebrew text says 5 cubits, and that's a pretty big guy (more than 2 meters tall)!

Since the story tells about the deeds of Benaiah, we must assume that the mentioning of the Egyptian's height is to make the deed impressive, so Benaiah would have been much smaller. But it does corroborate that the Egyptian cubit and the Hebrew cubit might have been somewhat the same.

But remember that even today an American inch is not the same as a British inch!


- FreezBee

 

[Sabertooth]

The Hebrew text says 5 cubits, and that's a pretty big guy (more than 2 meters tall)!

Since the story tells about the deeds of Benaiah, we must assume that the mentioning of the Egyptian's height is to make the deed impressive, so Benaiah would have been much smaller. But it does corroborate that the Egyptian cubit and the Hebrew cubit might have been somewhat the same.

But remember that even today an American inch is not the same as a British inch!


- FreezBee

I was assuming the measurement was given in "Hebrew" cubits. Not to be picky, but if the "big" Egyptian was typical for his race at the time, he would have been about four & a half "Egyptian" cubits. That is the approximate standard ratio for one's own body. If Benaiah was typical, in "Hebrew" cubits, he would have been 90% of that height, right at two meters. NIV puts the Egyptian at seven [American] feet.

All we really have is a ratio between the two men, not actual measurements, assuming Benaiah was typical for his race.

OT, I didn't know that about the British inch.

 

[FreezBee]

INot to be picky, but if the "big" Egyptian was typical for his race at the time, he would have been about four & a half "Egyptian" cubits.

I would assume that the Egyptian was supposed to be big, even for an Egyptian - Egyptian are not elsewhere in the OT mentioned as particularly larger than Hebrews. Think of him as a kind of Egyptian Goliath - I believe to remember that Goliath also used a spear the size of a weaver's rod!


- FreezBee

 

[bertie]

The hebrews were the guest of egypt for a very long time,.they built all the bricks for the egyptians.Dont you think that their cubit would be the same as the royal egyptian one....
This measurement would be in the form of a ruler or some similar device as we use would it not?
You couldnt have everbody using their own arm it would be the Pharohs or some such standardized no?

 

[Sabertooth]

The hebrews were the guest of egypt for a very long time,.they built all the bricks for the egyptians.Dont you think that their cubit would be the same as the royal egyptian one....
This measurement would be in the form of a ruler or some similar device as we use would it not?
You couldnt have everbody using their own arm it would be the Pharohs or some such standardized no?

REC [Royal Egyptian Cubit] as a brick manufacturing standard, interesting answer...

 

[Sabertooth]

Since a person is typically as tall as 4.5 of their own "cubits," this Egyptian was only half a head taller than the "Royal Egyptian" from which their standard cubit was derived.

 

[Nazaroo]

The average Hebrews before Moses' time were about three to four feet tall.
When they learned the secrets of Nazarite vows, they were able to grow substantially taller, and became much stronger.

Some Hebrew Nazarites were able to toss two-ton stone blocks to a height of 10 or 12 feet, thus building the pyramids.

I have a photo here that shows what my Nazarite/Biblical Food Law program can do for a person in just a few short weeks. Note the student here has only grown his hair for about three weeks.

 

[FreezBee]

Since a person is typically as tall as 4.5 of their own "cubits," this Egyptian was only half a head taller than the "Royal Egyptian" from which their standard cubit was derived.

Well, I suppose there is nothing wrong with that, if he had a comparatively large head.

The average Hebrews before Moses' time were about three to four feet tall.
When they learned the secrets of Nazarite vows, they were able to grow substantially taller, and became much stronger.

But what size of feet are we measuring by here?

Some Hebrew Nazarites were able to toss two-ton stone blocks to a height of 10 or 12 feet, thus building the pyramids.

Ooh, not sure I follow you here - were these Nazarites pre-mosaic or post-mosaic Hebrews?


- FreezBee

 

[Sabertooth]

...Ooh, not sure I follow you here - were these Nazarites pre-mosaic or post-mosaic Hebrews?

He's teasing...

 

[FreezBee]

He's teasing...

Nazaroo teasing? No, as the always serious scholar he is, this could never be the case. You are misjudging him, I'm sure

- FreezBee

 

[Bab2092]

I believe the tallest pharaoh they found was Rameses II who is 1.733 metres. Which is around 5'7. Though Rameses is a royal and might not count for the majority of the population. Though they have found mummies in egypt of young men (from around 15-20) being on 5'0. The Hebrews were probably a bit shorter. Though I've wondered the height of Saul? in the bible they say he was quit tall?

 

[inpursuit]

pretty big i would say