How Are You Different?

[Anglian]

I would say it's mature Christian, as in my observation that description fits the wisest liberal, moderate and conservative Christians.

Dear Izdaari,

Thank you for the kind and honest response.

For a Faith founded upon repentance and humility and love it is odd that so many of its adherents seem to have problems with two of this trio.

It sometimes seems as though there is a strain of the old Manichean heresy (the one which believed that matter and the material world were bad and only the spiritual things were good) in modern Christian belief.

Of course one can look at this world and its works and despair, and the Scriptures certainly counsel us against getting too attached to it and its material goods; but it is still God's world and we are still His children, and in it there is much that is good and beautiful - and everyone of us can be redeemed if we will let Him into our lives.

What is sad is the number of times one comes across people who have been turned away from the Faith by the narrow and judgemental way some of us seem to have behaved in their eyes. He came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the chief, and I stand in such awe of that gift, of which I know I am not worthy, that all I want is for others to come to Him and to know His love and forgiveness.

In Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile - nor, I hope, Conservative nor Liberal.

In peace,

Anglian

 

[Simon_Templar]

I define myself as conservative because I hold the traditional beliefs and values of the Faith and of my culture.

I don't find it hard to be conservative per say, in todays world... more depressing and disappointing because I can see how far we have fallen as a people and as a society. Not just in terms of religion but in terms of culture, education, everything.

The more society slides into "liberalism" the more stark the contrast becomes. It is a sometimes startling phenomenon when out in "daily life" you happen upon conversations on politics and the like and find that the "common" "average" people among your peers essentially believe your view point to be extremist, and unreasonable. Especially when in truth, they have nothing but a charicature vision of what your view is.

 

[Nadiine]

I thought this was a good [old] thread --

I'm conservative politically and theologically.

I do wonder how one can be theologically conservative, yet politically Liberal?
How can one 'separate' their faith from their political views?

Can someone plz. explain that?

 

[GQ Chris]

I thought this was a good [old] thread --

I'm conservative politically and theologically.

I do wonder how one can be theologically conservative, yet politically Liberal?
How can one 'separate' their faith from their political views?

Can someone plz. explain that?

I am theologically and politically Conservative as well.



That's a fairly easy one to explain, because they choose to.

 

[Nadiine]

I am theologically and politically Conservative as well.



That's a fairly easy one to explain, because they choose to.

But... if you actually BELIEVE the conservative moral views, how do you vote in a person who's party opposes & fights the conservative morals?

This is what I don't get.

I view it as a compromise or contradiction to what is believed, am I wrong?

 

[GQ Chris]

But... if you actually BELIEVE the conservative moral views, how do you vote in a person who's party opposes & fights the conservative morals?

This is what I don't get.

I view it as a compromise or contradiction to what is believed, am I wrong?

No, you're not wrong. I just have to refer back to what Michael Savage says about liberalism.

 

[MrJim]

How am I "different"?

I haven't voted since Reagan 84 and don't plan to this one. It's not apathy but rather a trust in God's sovereignty...so that's a way that I'm different.

Many many Christians have come to understand the corrupt deviant nature of the US government~and many, like myself, think it's well past the point of no return. Some however think there is still hope so they try to work the side that they think is the most Godly direction. So sides are chosen, each thinking the other is wrong (ranging from "mistaken" to "you can't be a Christian and vote like that"), and so more division is fomented within the body, much to excitement of some, believing division is a good thing. Then the measure of spirituality becomes how much more "correct" one is over the other simply in choosing some politician that is in the process of saying and doing about anything to get elected and whether you have a D or R is the true measure of faith.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

But... if you actually BELIEVE the conservative moral views, how do you vote in a person who's party opposes & fights the conservative morals?

This is what I don't get.

I view it as a compromise or contradiction to what is believed, am I wrong?

That's a dilemma I'm used to but from a slightly different perspective: As a Goldwater conservative (aka hawkish libertarian aka neolibertarian), I almost always have to vote for someone who disagrees with me on a major portion of my worldview or not vote at all. The last major party nominee I completely agreed with was Goldwater, and he ran when I was 10 years old.

If I vote for a conservative Republican, he'll be much more socially conservative than me, and probably into the Republican version of big government, which I loathe only slightly less than the Democratic version. But we'll mostly agree on foreign policy.

If I vote for a liberal Democrat, he'll have a UN-centric "surrender monkey" foreign policy, probably be into gun control, and tend toward European-style democratic socialism. Since lib Dems are opposite to me on most things, it's rare I'd vote for one.

If a Libertarian is running, he'll have a utopian isolationist foreign policy, but we'll agree on most everything else. Except for foreign policy, Ron Paul is nearly a perfect match for me on the issues. The problem is I care a lot about foreign policy.

So if I won't compromise my principles, I don't get to vote at all... and not voting is against my principles too.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

How am I "different"?

I haven't voted since Reagan 84 and don't plan to this one. It's not apathy but rather a trust in God's sovereignty...so that's a way that I'm different.

Many many Christians have come to understand the corrupt deviant nature of the US government~and many, like myself, think it's well past the point of no return. Some however think there is still hope so they try to work the side that they think is the most Godly direction. So sides are chosen, each thinking the other is wrong (ranging from "mistaken" to "you can't be a Christian and vote like that"), and so more division is fomented within the body, much to excitement of some, believing division is a good thing. Then the measure of spirituality becomes how much more "correct" one is over the other simply in choosing some politician that is in the process of saying and doing about anything to get elected and whether you have a D or R is the true measure of faith.

I mostly agree with you, MrJim. I don't think Christians as a body should even try to agree on a candidate for the exact reasons you cite, and if I never hear a word about politics from the pulpit, that's the way I like it. The difference is I'm willing to vote for the lesser evil. The choices may be lousy, but I'm able to reach a consensus on it with myself. But if my church (and I just mean my local congregation) tried to agree on a candidate? It'd never happen, we're politically too diverse, and it would split us. Not worth it!

 

[GQ Chris]

how I'm different? I'm in the world, but not "of this world" and I am also Out of this World.

 

[MrJim]

how I'm different? I'm in the world, but not "of this world" and I am also Out of this World.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

I thought this was a good [old] thread --

I'm conservative politically and theologically.

I do wonder how one can be theologically conservative, yet politically Liberal?
How can one 'separate' their faith from their political views?

Can someone plz. explain that?

Ask Tony Campolo or Jim Wallis. They're both theological conservatives but political liberals. (I'm not personally familiar with Wallis' work, but I like Campolo's.)

For myself, I'm theologically conservative (mostly) and libertarian (except for foreign policy, where I'm usually in agreement with conservative Republicans). I think that lines up fairly well with God's will. God wants us to be moral, but there's virtue in it only if it's freely chosen, not coerced. And the same goes for charitable giving: it's right to do it, but it isn't right to force others to do it.

 

[GQ Chris]

 

[MrJim]

Ask Tony Campolo or Jim Wallis. They're both theological conservatives but political liberals. (I'm not personally familiar with Wallis' work, but I like Campolo's.)

For myself, I'm theologically conservative (mostly) and libertarian (except for foreign policy, where I'm usually in agreement with conservative Republicans). I think that lines up fairly well with God's will. God wants us to be moral, but there's virtue in it only if it's freely chosen, not coerced. And the same goes for charitable giving: it's right to do it, but it isn't right to force others to do it.

Campolo he was involved in a heresy trial IIRC...as long as those guys support abortionists they are suspect..

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

Campolo he was involved in a heresy trial IIRC...as long as those guys support abortionists they are suspect..

Aye, and the panel, led by J.I. Packer, found him "methodically naive and verbally incautious" but not heretical. That's from the link in my post. I don't agree with Campolo on politics, but from his writings, he seems like a very solid Christian to me.

Note also (from the same link) that "...Campolo has also criticized the more liberal mainline Christian denominations because ""they fail to emphasize a personal, transforming relationship with Jesus Christ."" I think we'd all agree with him on that.

 

[WannaWitness]

I knew a very Godly Pentecostal lady (she went on to be with the Lord a few years ago) -- very moral with strong personal convictions. She was very straightforward Biblically. She stuck to the King James Bible, always wore dresses, and didn't even believe in playing cards. This made her ultra-conservative theologically. And I remember her telling me she was a Democrat (therefore politically "liberal").

Here's an interesting link -- http://www.drurywriting.com/keith/democ.htm

I don't agree completely with everything in the above article, but I think this might, as a whole, explain why one might be "conservative" theologically, yet "moderate" or "liberal" politically. (I don't want to debate; I'm just simply providing a little food for thought to look at and take it as you wish).

As for myself, I simply don't think there is a "Christian" party. I think politics have a lack of morals no matter what the party is, and there isn't a politician around who's completely lily-white. What I do believe, however, is that all politicians need our prayers.

 

[Nadiine]

I knew a very Godly Pentecostal lady (she went on to be with the Lord a few years ago) -- very moral with strong personal convictions. She was very straightforward Biblically. She stuck to the King James Bible, always wore dresses, and didn't even believe in playing cards. This made her ultra-conservative theologically. And I remember her telling me she was a Democrat (therefore politically "liberal").

Here's an interesting link -- http://www.drurywriting.com/keith/democ.htm

I don't agree completely with everything in the above article, but I think this might, as a whole, explain why one might be "conservative" theologically, yet "moderate" or "liberal" politically. (I don't want to debate; I'm just simply providing a little food for thought to look at and take it as you wish).

thank you for the link, I'll read it when I get more time later today.

thanks for dropping that by

 

[MrJim]

There is an old-school democrat that is quite conservative~dems today are generally identified with RoevWade but that's just from the early 70/s...fair amount of Blue Dogs out there..

 

[Blank123]

i think we've all got our own definitions of conservative. for me if i call myself conservative its referring to my theological beliefs. I adhere to absolute truth and believe in the inerrancy of the Holy Scriptures and the Biblical principles all Christians are called to live out. In the theologically liberal church today thats becoming increasingly rare because hey its just mean to say there's such a thing as absolute truth, thats implying that someone else is wrong!

as for politics i think people rely on that way too much as an indicator of who people are in Christ. I'm not politically conservative but i know i am a daughter of The King and I love His Truth.

 

[Simon_Templar]

Ask Tony Campolo or Jim Wallis. They're both theological conservatives but political liberals. (I'm not personally familiar with Wallis' work, but I like Campolo's.)

For myself, I'm theologically conservative (mostly) and libertarian (except for foreign policy, where I'm usually in agreement with conservative Republicans). I think that lines up fairly well with God's will. God wants us to be moral, but there's virtue in it only if it's freely chosen, not coerced. And the same goes for charitable giving: it's right to do it, but it isn't right to force others to do it.

Actually I consider Campolo to be a flaming liberal theologically as well. Perhaps doctrinally would be a better term than theologically.