Recently, I have heard Christians give two completely different answers to this question. One camp says that we are to see ourselves as lowly sinners. In my 20s, my mother concerned that I may be getting too “new age” being away from college and probably listening to too much 700 Club, had my brother-in-law, a missionary, counsel me while driving me to the airport. I told him that I didn’t believe there was anything “new” to what I believed although it may be different than how I was taught. For example, when I pray, I close my eyes, and go within. He said, “When I go within, all I see is darkness and evil.” I said, “well, maybe you want to ask Jesus into your heart, the “Little light of mine?” He said, “The only good in me is Jesus.” I said, “I’m sad that you don’t see the good that is you. I can see it. But it makes me wonder - if people don’t have Jesus, do you only see darkness and evil in such people?” There was street preacher in Toronto, Dorre Love, that would say as people passed him, “A lot of demons out tonight...” He didn’t even know these people, and just viewed the world in general as evil.
Someone had posted the lyrics of I Believe by Laura Daigel, calling them Anti-Christ because she was singing of self-doubt that she would never measure up, and when she is feels she is lost, He reminds her she is His, when she feels weak, he tells her she is strong. I hear this, and it sounds like a song of hope, of encouragement. Instead, it was attacked. “The truth is, you will never measure up! We are lowly sinners!” Then this parable was quoted, or misquoted.
Luke 18-9-14
9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’
13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”
From this, they conclude that God wants us to see ourselves as lowly sinners, unable to turn our heads up to God.
The message that I get was, your attitude in prayer to God matters. The Pharisee didn’t once praise God, he praised himself. Well, he praised God for making him better than other people, better than other sinners, following all the commandments. His religion didn’t allow for mercy, and he condemned others while patting himself on the back. The tax collector probably didn’t raise his head because he was asking forgiveness, and acknowledging his sin, and humbling himself before God. So, if you go into church, and thank God that you are not like the drug dealers and addicts, the prostitutes, and such a great, holy person, it offends God. Once, a Christian said to me, “You know, in Christ I love you, I just hate your sin.” I said, “Thank you, sister. I love you as well. And ....uh, I hate you sin, too, I guess.” “MY SIN???? WHAT SIN HAVE I COMMITTED?” I assume everyone sins now and then, no matter how hard they try not to. What sin had she committed? None of my business, but I used it as a tagline as she did, and she didn’t take it as feeling loved, but as feeling judged. Why do you think she was so offended? My guess is she saw me beneath her.
One poster was saying that the message of the Gospel is that we are lowly sinners in needing forgiveness.
Think about that for a minute. Is that the message you understand from the Gospel? Did people not understand that they sinned and when they did, needed to atone, in the OT?
Finally, in seeing an article referring to the parable, a pastor gave examples of people he counselled. One had an affair and now their marriage was on the rocks. Another unmarried woman was now pregnant. Each of them said, “How did I get here,” and when asked how they thought they got there, said low self esteem. The one that had the affair was tempted because someone outside of the marriage made them feel good about themselves, the pregnant woman saying the same. I believe their was someone with an addiction who used a substance to make themselves happier. But the pastor says that it is not because they had low self esteem, but because it was too high. They arrived at that situation because they were lowly sinners, but not acknowledging that, found themselves in a bad situation.
One can have a healthy esteem while still acknowledging their sinful nature. All of this is really foreign to me, because having worked in counselling, the lower a person sees themselves, the less they care for themselves, ending up in abusive relationships because they believe they deserve it, have substance abuse to combat how much they hate themselves.
So, I can go before God, humble myself and ask forgiveness, but I also acknowledge that my soul is divine, and I am made in God’s image, and that is seen most often when I act in love towards others. I’m not patting myself on the back, but saying thank you, Father, for the love you have shown me by showing that love to others. I have seen Christians who are like the Pharisee, who, when asked if they have “gone and sin no more,” will say things like, “Well, I don’t intentionally sin.” Um, it’s called free will, and yes, you do. You just won’t admit it.
So, I am able to admit my own faults/sins, and it helps me to show mercy to others who sin against me, but I don’t believe God wishes for us to simply walk around in life with our heads down, full of guilt and shame, see ourselves only as sin, but as the beautiful children of God that we are that also bring joy and happiness. And I certainly don’t believe that the message of the Gospel is that we are lowly sinners than need forgiveness, but that Jesus came to save us, to show us how to forgive, how to love, how to be able to walk humbly without being self deprecating, and forgive the sins of the world.
Any comments?
Someone had posted the lyrics of I Believe by Laura Daigel, calling them Anti-Christ because she was singing of self-doubt that she would never measure up, and when she is feels she is lost, He reminds her she is His, when she feels weak, he tells her she is strong. I hear this, and it sounds like a song of hope, of encouragement. Instead, it was attacked. “The truth is, you will never measure up! We are lowly sinners!” Then this parable was quoted, or misquoted.
Luke 18-9-14
9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’
13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”
From this, they conclude that God wants us to see ourselves as lowly sinners, unable to turn our heads up to God.
The message that I get was, your attitude in prayer to God matters. The Pharisee didn’t once praise God, he praised himself. Well, he praised God for making him better than other people, better than other sinners, following all the commandments. His religion didn’t allow for mercy, and he condemned others while patting himself on the back. The tax collector probably didn’t raise his head because he was asking forgiveness, and acknowledging his sin, and humbling himself before God. So, if you go into church, and thank God that you are not like the drug dealers and addicts, the prostitutes, and such a great, holy person, it offends God. Once, a Christian said to me, “You know, in Christ I love you, I just hate your sin.” I said, “Thank you, sister. I love you as well. And ....uh, I hate you sin, too, I guess.” “MY SIN???? WHAT SIN HAVE I COMMITTED?” I assume everyone sins now and then, no matter how hard they try not to. What sin had she committed? None of my business, but I used it as a tagline as she did, and she didn’t take it as feeling loved, but as feeling judged. Why do you think she was so offended? My guess is she saw me beneath her.
One poster was saying that the message of the Gospel is that we are lowly sinners in needing forgiveness.
Think about that for a minute. Is that the message you understand from the Gospel? Did people not understand that they sinned and when they did, needed to atone, in the OT?
Finally, in seeing an article referring to the parable, a pastor gave examples of people he counselled. One had an affair and now their marriage was on the rocks. Another unmarried woman was now pregnant. Each of them said, “How did I get here,” and when asked how they thought they got there, said low self esteem. The one that had the affair was tempted because someone outside of the marriage made them feel good about themselves, the pregnant woman saying the same. I believe their was someone with an addiction who used a substance to make themselves happier. But the pastor says that it is not because they had low self esteem, but because it was too high. They arrived at that situation because they were lowly sinners, but not acknowledging that, found themselves in a bad situation.
One can have a healthy esteem while still acknowledging their sinful nature. All of this is really foreign to me, because having worked in counselling, the lower a person sees themselves, the less they care for themselves, ending up in abusive relationships because they believe they deserve it, have substance abuse to combat how much they hate themselves.
So, I can go before God, humble myself and ask forgiveness, but I also acknowledge that my soul is divine, and I am made in God’s image, and that is seen most often when I act in love towards others. I’m not patting myself on the back, but saying thank you, Father, for the love you have shown me by showing that love to others. I have seen Christians who are like the Pharisee, who, when asked if they have “gone and sin no more,” will say things like, “Well, I don’t intentionally sin.” Um, it’s called free will, and yes, you do. You just won’t admit it.
So, I am able to admit my own faults/sins, and it helps me to show mercy to others who sin against me, but I don’t believe God wishes for us to simply walk around in life with our heads down, full of guilt and shame, see ourselves only as sin, but as the beautiful children of God that we are that also bring joy and happiness. And I certainly don’t believe that the message of the Gospel is that we are lowly sinners than need forgiveness, but that Jesus came to save us, to show us how to forgive, how to love, how to be able to walk humbly without being self deprecating, and forgive the sins of the world.
Any comments?
