How and why we keep the Sabbath holy...

[Merlinius]

This is for any non Adventist... what do you make of this verse?

John 5:28-29
the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and will come out—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation."

It seems, to me, to support not only soul sleep til Christs return but also speaks clearly on works being salvational... more specifically obedience to His Commands.

Here you go...

(Mat 27:52) And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
(Mat 27:53) And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

("soul sleep"? What is that? Couldn't find that in the Bible... by the way, the Bible isn't written to "support" private doctrines, word to the wise)

And Jesus commandments are clear to a Christian;

(1Jn 3:23) And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Peace

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

But first, since you evidently challenge my Rest in Christ, how about you show me in the New Covenant (New Testament) where I'm not in Christ's rest!

The onus is on you.

No, you are in a SDA room... our belief is predicated on the seventh day Sabbath still being required as loving obedient worship.


There is no 'thus saith the Lord' that told anyone to stop keeping the Sabbath as He taught...

 

[Merlinius]

Christ taught me how to keep the Sabbath.

As I shared earlier, I keep it 24/7. You are wise to not challenge me on it.

Peace

 

[ricker]

Christ taught me how to keep the Sabbath.

As I shared earlier, I keep it 24/7. You are wise to not challenge me on it.

Peace

Who taught the Galations and Ephesions and Corinthinans how to keep the Sabbath under the new covenant? The Gospels hadn't been written yet when the Epistles were given to the Gentile churches. Was Jesus's life under the old covenant or new?


14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away.

The Sabbath was part of the old covenant.

 

[numlock321]

first of all God established a day which all of us to rest... you now why? God gave us six days to work and on the seventh day is the day of rest.. it is very impossible to us humans to make sabbath everyday...

now for the question, where does in the new covenant christ himself taught us to worship sunday? prove it...

 

[k4c]

Who taught the Galations and Ephesions and Corinthinans how to keep the Sabbath under the new covenant? The Gospels hadn't been written yet when the Epistles were given to the Gentile churches. Was Jesus's life under the old covenant or new?


14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away.

The Sabbath was part of the old covenant.

Jesus' life is the new covenant.

The seventh day was blessed and called holy before the old covenant.

The seventh day should have been kept holy before Sini but fallen man was transgressing that's why God put everything in writing. But the Law on stone, under the old covenant, only controlled the outward actions of man through fear of punishment. Under the new covenant the punishement is taken away and the Law is written on the heart. Love, empowered by God's Spirit, is the motive now.

Gathering on the Sabbath is what the people of God do.

Jesus kept His Father's commandments, John 15:10

So Jesus did it, Luke 4:16.

Paul followed Jesus, 1 Cor. 11:1.

So Paul did it, Acts 17:2.

The followers of Jesus did it, Luke 23:56.

The Gentiles did it, Acts 13:42.

Almost a whole city did it at one time, Act 13:44.

They were still doing it in 70 A.D., Matthew 24:20.

They were still doing it in 364 A.D., which is why they were trying to stop them from doing it, Council of Laodicea in 364 A.D...CHRISTIANS must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.

They were still doing it in 1600's A.D. Welcome Visitors | Seventh Day Baptist | General Conference of the United States and Canada

And we're still doing it today...

Now let me tell you what you have. You have people telling you that Sunday is the Lord's day with no scriptural authority and not one Bible verse that says Sunday is the Lord's day. Hmmm! This is a no brainer...

 

[ricker]

first of all God established a day which all of us to rest... you now why? God gave us six days to work and on the seventh day is the day of rest.. it is very impossible to us humans to make sabbath everyday...

now for the question, where does in the new covenant christ himself taught us to worship sunday? prove it...

Where in the new covenant does it tell us to worship Saturday?

BTW, the 4th commandment in the old covenant commands resting on the seventh day, not specifically anything about worship.

 

[k4c]

Where in the new covenant does it tell us to worship Saturday?

BTW, the 4th commandment in the old covenant commands resting on the seventh day, not specifically anything about worship.

The life and teachings of Jesus teaches us new covenant principles.

1 John 2:6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

Paul understood this principle.

1 Corinthians 11:1 Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.

Jesus gathered on the Sabbath.

Paul gathered on the Sabbath.

Even the Gentile Christians gathered on the Sabbath.

Why don't you?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Ricker, are you ever going to respond to my post on Isaiah 56? You have been asking for scriptural text to show that gentiles (strangers) are to keep the Sabbath just as the Israelites did. Why ask questions if you are going to ignore the answers?

 

[numlock321]

now you asked where in the new covenant we must worship saturday,, first things first, sabbath is the seventh day "shabbath"... and guess what.. what day in a week was mentioned to be holy? sabbath!

being "HOLY" is not any ordinary day.. God himself told us that we remember the sabbath day and keep it holy! we must worship on the sabbath for it is holy...

 

[Hupomone10]

The words of Jesus set the standard for the new covenant. I know this whole debate is because of the seventh day. Take some time and read the teachings of Jesus regarding the Sabbath.

Actually I will do what you suggest, because above all things my journey with Christ is a journey of finding truth and applying it to my life.

Beyond that, I see from this response that you and others do not wish to engage and answer the question. It is easier to believe what we believe and serve the Lord with our limited understanding and "seeing through a glass darkly" (1 Cor. 13), and I include myself in that group, than to take the challenge I've suggested and follow an idea to the end of that road to see where it leads. That's risky to many. And honestly I think it's better for most believers stay in their secure doctrinal comfort box and continue following the Lord and living for Him than to be confused with different doctrinal perspectives and drift away from the Lord because of that. I'm seeing a lot of that on these threads.

We can agree to disagree, and just ensure we serve the Lord in sincerity, purity, and faith as best we know how, me according to my light, you according to yours.

Blessings on this Thanksgiving day,
H.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

now you asked where in the new covenant we must worship saturday,, first things first, sabbath is the seventh day "shabbath"... and guess what.. what day in a week was mentioned to be holy? sabbath!

being "HOLY" is not any ordinary day.. God himself told us that we remember the sabbath day and keep it holy! we must worship on the sabbath for it is holy...

Exactly... we do not worship the day but the One who has the power to make the day.

People get stuck on it being a legal issue where we see it as an obedience issue. We see the fourth the same as the other Commandments, we don't break them because God has given us His Love in Spirit and truth and we show that love by our obedience.

 

[Hupomone10]

... ok i will made this clear again not all laws were nailed to the cross but some are... the nailed ones was against to the new covenant.! think about all the laws that are against to the new covenant.. as far as i know the ten commandments was not being nailed including the sabbath.. therefore Sabbath is still the lords day and must be kept holy... can you make sunday holy? did God himself taught us about sunday making it holy?

I notice that you do not wish to answer the question in my post and would rather avoid the issue. OK.

If you stand back and read this above post of yours, I trust you can see that it is an arbitrary and subjective standard you are using to determine what commands of God's law are applicable and which ones aren't.

Let me reword it as someone coming from my perspective might say, and maybe you can see how arbitrary it is; and then maybe we can get back to my challenge in the post you answered...

"ok I will made this clear again: not all laws were nailed to the cross but some are... the nailed ones are not included in the commands given in the new covenant! Think about all the laws that are against to the new covenant (you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, that we might bear fruit for God Romans 7:4)
.. as far as i know the ten commandments were not repeated completely in the new Testament, the one concerning the sabbath was not.. the Sabbath was never in Scripture referred to as the lords day... you are never commanded to worship on the Sabbath but rather to rest on that day, so sunday as a worship day does not replace the sabbath. This makes null and void the statement "did God himself taught us about sunday making it holy?"

There is no difference in what you've said and what I said above.

So, please go back and let's compare the laws of God, one by one to determine which ones are to be obeyed and which ones you would arbitrarily include in your list of those "nailed to the Cross."

If you wish to avoid this 613 post treatise as we go through all the commands of God in the OT, we can do so if you agree that you get to arbitrarily choose which Laws are important to God and which ones aren't, that numlock's Self gets to decide.

It is when challenges such as this come along that we can see how illogical some of our beliefs are. However, I do not wish to destroy your faith; if your walk with God requires you to apply this arbitrary standard as to which commands of God to obey and which ones not to, it is more important that you walk with the Lord, even if with limited doctrinal understanding. The same goes for me.

Blessings on this day that we in the U.S. celebrate with thanksgiving,
H.

 

[Hupomone10]

first of all God established a day which all of us to rest... you now why? God gave us six days to work and on the seventh day is the day of rest.. it is very impossible to us humans to make sabbath everyday...

now for the question, where does in the new covenant christ himself taught us to worship sunday? prove it...

I don't want to get you sidetracked from answering my previous post, but do you think they kept the seventh day as a day of rest from Adam's day when they didn't know writing and reading and any way to record which day it was?

And do you think they kept the same seventh as sabbath through the generations of people who departed from God in the next 1,500 years as everyone turned aside from following God and had to be destroyed in the flood?

And do you believe Noah kept up with exactly which day the sabbath was actually on during all those months on the ark?

And do you believe the generations of folks after Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth kept up with exactly which day the sabbath was on, down to Abraham?

And do you believe Abraham, who wasn't even a believer but grew up in a pagan society in Ur of the Chaldees, somehow miraculously knew which day the seventh day sabbath was so he could pass that down through his generations so that Moses would eventually know which day it was?

And do you believe all those generations of slaves in Egypt for 400 years somehow passed down which day it was, in the midst of all their work when we are given no indication in the Scriptures that Egyptian taskmasters allowed them to do something as impractical as rest on the seventh day? Do you really believe the Egyptian Pharaoh would allow such a sabbath when he increased their hours of work when Moses asked him to let them go?

And do you believe Pharaohs' daughter practiced the seventh sabbath or kept up with it (even though I don't know where she would have gotten it from) so she could teach it to Moses?

Or should we come to the more obvious and practical conclusion: that Moses assigned the seventh day according to their calendar of the day, or was told by God the day in their calendar that He wanted them to observe as a day of rest, and that they kept it from then out, with no guarantee it was the original seventh day, and with no guarantee that the exact day didn't get lost during the time "everyone did what was right in his own eyes" in Judges, and during the Babylonian captivity when again they wouldn't have been allowed as slaves to sit back and relax one day? And if He had to tell Moses what day it was, that is because it was being given to the Israelites as a part of the Mosaic law which was for those many centuries their tudor to bring them to Christ.

I think I'll take the more obvious and practical belief, that there is no way we can know the day you are "observing" (whatever that means) as the Sabbath is the real Sabbath of God. And therefore, it renders completely useless the argument that Sunday is a wrong day to worship, much less that Sunday is a wrong day to rest.

Feel free to show from history how you know the day you call Saturday is the actual seventh day and sabbath of God, kept and not altered from the days of Adam and Eve. If not, let us agree that you do not know, that you along with everyone else have arbitrarily called it the sabbath; and that this is no different from others resting or worshiping on Sunday.

Blessings,
H.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

So, please go back and let's compare the laws of God, one by one to determine which ones are to be obeyed and which ones you would arbitrarily include in your list of those "nailed to the Cross."

If you wish to avoid this 613 post treatise as we go through all the commands of God in the OT, we can do so if you agree that you get to arbitrarily choose which Laws are important to God and which ones aren't, that numlock's Self gets to decide.

Does the fact that God wrote the decalogue with His own finger in stone mean nothing to you? Maybe God realized how many laws there were going to be and decided to deligate the writing of the rest to Moses?

And the fact that the decalogue was kept inside the Ark while the other laws were kept outside must have been because there wasn't the room to put them all inside, right?

Maybe there was a greater significance to the Ten than the rest...

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

It is when challenges such as this come along that we can see how illogical some of our beliefs are. However, I do not wish to destroy your faith; if your walk with God requires you to apply this arbitrary standard as to which commands of God to obey and which ones not to, it is more important that you walk with the Lord, even if with limited doctrinal understanding. The same goes for me.

If this is truly the case, then why are you coming into an Adventist room trying to show us, with your obviously apparent superior doctrinal understanding, the error of our understanding?

I think you have sufficiently made your case (as have the hundreds that have come before you). If you continue to proselytize this room with your beliefs, I will have to report you for violation of the forum rules. We tolerate many that come in here that question our beliefs, but only to a point.

 

[rainbowinthesky]

Responding to a post from the first page of this thread.

Did not Jesus say that He was the Lord of the Sabbath and that it was made for man?

Did He not also say that not one jot or tittle of that law would pass away?

He Himself came to fulfill that law and He has commanded us to do the same.

"Here are they who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus." Rev.14:12.

This verse is a description of the people Jesus will come to take home with Him in these last days.

sky

 

[ChrisCarol]

Salvation is more than an insurance policy out of hell or just getting your ticket punched on the glory train to heaven.

Can a fruitless faith save a person?

Jas 2:14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can his faith save him?

When a person in saved, by gace through faith, he comes alive unto God.

Faith is made complete when it is accompaied with works.

James 2:21-22 Wasn’t Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? You see that faith was active together with his works, and by works, faith was perfected.

This new life in Christ will be full of works.

Eph 2:10 For we are His creation, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time so that we should walk in them.

Titus 2:14 He gave Himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to cleanse for Himself a people for His own possession, eager to do good works.

Titus 3:8 This saying is trustworthy. I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed God might be careful to devote themselves to good works. These are good and profitable for everyone.

These works will performed by a power within you that is not of yourself.

Would that be like the ones I listed previous(below). It's a yes or no answer or in your opinion is there something else that you are not saying? How about you just say it as I have instead of beating around the bush.

I believe in life everlasting because of what He did not anything that I could ever do that would allow me to be in the presence of God. He loved me/and you so much that He gave His Only Begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.(do not try to add something to what He has already accomplished)

I have trusted God to be with me as my husband lay near death for 3 days?

I have trusted God as our son suffered the loss of his wife of only 5 years?

I have trusted God as my Dr. told me. you probably have a brain tumor which caused the seizure?

I have continued to trust God thru 13 years after my husband had a massive heart attack and is now having arythmia problems for which he gets a shock from his implanted defibulator.

and more...................................

 

[k4c]

Would that be like the ones I listed previous(below). It's a yes or no answer or in your opinion is there something else that you are not saying? How about you just say it as I have instead of beating around the bush.

I believe in life everlasting because of what He did not anything that I could ever do that would allow me to be in the presence of God. He loved me/and you so much that He gave His Only Begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.(do not try to add something to what He has already accomplished)

I have trusted God to be with me as my husband lay near death for 3 days?

I have trusted God as our son suffered the loss of his wife of only 5 years?

I have trusted God as my Dr. told me. you probably have a brain tumor which caused the seizure?

I have continued to trust God thru 13 years after my husband had a massive heart attack and is now having arythmia problems for which he gets a shock from his implanted defibulator.

and more...................................

You say that I beat around the bush because I just don't come out with a clear list of do's and don't's. It can seem that way because eternal life is based on a love relationship with God through Jesus Christ, not a list of do's and don't's. If we have Jesus we have eternal life but if we say we have Jesus yet we hate our brother we have no eternal life abiding in us.

1John 3:15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

Your list of things can and do accompany those who possess eternal life but they are not an end all list. I know alot of people who call out to God in their time of need but have nothing to do with Him when all is well. While others may say they know Him but deny Him by how they live.

Titus 1:16 They profess to know God, but they deny Him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, and disqualified for any good work.

God knows His own and you will know you belong to Him when you find yourself loving His righteousness and hating evil. You will find it hard not to keep the commandments because the commandments define love towards God and man.

Personally, to me, I believe you have a relationship with God that shows you are alive unto God. But being alive unto God and walking daily in that life are two different things. Remember what Titus 1:16 says.

 

[ChrisCarol]

You say that I beat around the bush because I just don't come out with a clear list of do's and don't's. It can seem that way because eternal life is based on a love relationship with God through Jesus Christ, not a list of do's and don't's. If we have Jesus we have eternal life but if we say we have Jesus yet we hate our brother we have no eternal life abiding in us.

1John 3:15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

Your list of things can and do accompany those who possess eternal life but they are not an end all list. I know alot of people who call out to God in their time of need but have nothing to do with Him when all is well. While others may say they know Him but deny Him by how they live.

Titus 1:16 They profess to know God, but they deny Him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, and disqualified for any good work.

God knows His own and you will know you belong to Him when you find yourself loving His righteousness and hating evil. You will find it hard not to keep the commandments because the commandments define love towards God and man.

Personally, to me, I believe you have a relationship with God that shows you are alive unto God. But being alive unto God and walking daily in that life are two different things. Remember what Titus 1:16 says.

Thank you. I just want to leave you with this verse:

1 John 3 23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

As He said another place: Matthew 22:

37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

How do I love the Lord with all my heart? As He has given me instruction:

Matthew 25:39-41


40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

May the love of God be between you and me and may His Spirit give us understanding.