How and why we keep the Sabbath holy...

[Hupomone10]

the term was used "spiritual israel" in my opinion keyboard believed to the israel to their spiritual faith...

Oh, I think I do understand what keyboard meant, brother. I'm having a hard time understanding your sentence, but I do understand that some people refer to a thing called "spiritual Israel" which doesn't actually exist at all.

I just find it ironic that someone who doesn't even believe doctrinally that man even has a spirit, and therefore cannot have a spiritual life, would believe in a "spiritual Israel." That's one of those "oxymorons."

now i have a question for you, are you even aware that the jew was the chosen people by GOD? why not americans,german, Chinese,etc. where not chosen? because they lack of faith, they didnt believe God.

Yes, I'm very aware of that. I believe you are still the chosen people of God, because "the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable" (Romans 11:29). And by that I'm not saying all Israelites are saved, but that God is not through dealing with the Jewish people yet.

But no, I don't think for a moment that God chose the Jewish people because of their faith and didn't choose the american or german peoples (who weren't around then) because of their lack of faith. Americans are responsible for the largest missionary movements since the reformation and for much sound teaching in the body of Christ, and many people full of faith. Germany as well (ever heard of Martin Luther and Dietrich Bonhoeffer?). I think He chose Abraham exactly because He knew how obstinate and unbelieving the Israelite people would be, and there was no better people to prove that "God can do what we cannot do for ourselves" than this people.

Since you are from Israel, and quite possibly an ex-Jewish believer, I can understand your loyalty to the 4th commandment. Thus far, I've had no answers to what is meant by "observe" the Sabbath. maybe you will answer me...

How do you observe it, brother? Do you observe it as the Old Testament Scriptures command? And do you observe the other Sabbath? the Sabbath year every 7 years?

God bless,
H.

 

[numlock321]

im talking about the early days not today.. americans,germans,etc are not included.... because they dont believe God yet...

 

[numlock321]

by the way.. the yearly sabbath you were talking to has been abolished in the new covenant... not the weekly sabbath.. they are very different.. since christ fulfilled it on the cross.. the weekly sabbath was the day which God created all things and rested, we are to remember the sabbath for which we now there is God who created all things...

 

[visionary]

by the way.. the yearly sabbath you were talking to has been abolished in the new covenant... not the weekly sabbath.. they are very different.. since christ fulfilled it on the cross.. the weekly sabbath was the day which God created all things and rested, we are to remember the sabbath for which we now there is God who created all things...

yearly abolished??

 

[numlock321]

yearly sabbath.... since you now there are two sabbaths.. the "Yearly Sabbath" and the "Weekly Sabbath"... the "yearly sabbath" was abolished and was nailed to the cross...

 

[visionary]

What yearly? and where does it say it was abolished?

 

[numlock321]

"the sabbath year" you were talking to or it is also called yearly sabbath

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;


Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

 

[k4c]

Oh, I think I do understand what keyboard meant, brother. I'm having a hard time understanding your sentence, but I do understand that some people refer to a thing called "spiritual Israel" which doesn't actually exist at all.

I just find it ironic that someone who doesn't even believe doctrinally that man even has a spirit, and therefore cannot have a spiritual life, would believe in a "spiritual Israel." That's one of those "oxymorons."

Yes, I'm very aware of that. I believe you are still the chosen people of God, because "the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable" (Romans 11:29). And by that I'm not saying all Israelites are saved, but that God is not through dealing with the Jewish people yet.

But no, I don't think for a moment that God chose the Jewish people because of their faith and didn't choose the american or german peoples (who weren't around then) because of their lack of faith. Americans are responsible for the largest missionary movements since the reformation and for much sound teaching in the body of Christ, and many people full of faith. Germany as well (ever heard of Martin Luther and Dietrich Bonhoeffer?). I think He chose Abraham exactly because He knew how obstinate and unbelieving the Israelite people would be, and there was no better people to prove that "God can do what we cannot do for ourselves" than this people.

Since you are from Israel, and quite possibly an ex-Jewish believer, I can understand your loyalty to the 4th commandment. Thus far, I've had no answers to what is meant by "observe" the Sabbath. maybe you will answer me...

How do you observe it, brother? Do you observe it as the Old Testament Scriptures command? And do you observe the other Sabbath? the Sabbath year every 7 years?

God bless,
H.

Paul made a distinction between his countrymen , Israel of a flash, and the Israel of God. We as Gentiles are aliens to the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenant of promise. We are without hope and without God in the world. But then we are grafted in as a wild branch. Most of the new testament speaks of the Israel of God as opposed to Israel of the flesh. Most of the new testament speaks of the Israel of God as opposed to the Israel of the flesh. Romans 2:28-29 speaks of spiritual Israel. It's very important to understand this concept if you're gonna understand the new covenant. Remember the new covenant is made with the household of Israel. If you're not of the household then you're out.

 

[Hupomone10]

by the way.. the yearly sabbath you were talking to has been abolished in the new covenant... not the weekly sabbath.. they are very different.. since christ fulfilled it on the cross.. the weekly sabbath was the day which God created all things and rested, we are to remember the sabbath for which we now there is God who created all things...

yearly sabbath.... since you now there are two sabbaths.. the "Yearly Sabbath" and the "Weekly Sabbath"... the "yearly sabbath" was abolished and was nailed to the cross...

I would be interested in seeing Scripture to support this idea of one Sabbath abolished and not the other, differentiating between Sabbaths, so that I can know this is founded on something more than man's spin on the truth.

 

[Hupomone10]

"the sabbath year" you were talking to or it is also called yearly sabbath

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;


Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

This is evidence for my position, not yours. At the very best it is an assumption that he is here talking about one Sabbath and not the other. At the worst, it is erroneous interpretation with no basis on it applying to one sabbath (yearly) and not the other (weekly) except the need to justify one's theological comfort box and reaching for straws wherever they can be found.

Actually, if you interpret this that the Sabbath days are a part of what is talked about in verse 14, then this law as well as the others, is nailed to the cross of Christ.

If not, then we are told not to let anyone be our judge regarding Sabbaths. And I am content with either one. Either I am crucified to the Law including the Sabbaths as Paul said, or that's my freedom of conscience and no one has a right to judge me saying I should keep them. Either way, this scripture passage works for me.

Thanks for this reinforcement. I await your response to this,
H.

A

 

[Hupomone10]

Paul made a distinction between his countrymen , Israel of a flash, and the Israel of God. We as Gentiles are aliens to the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenant of promise. We are without hope and without God in the world. But then we are grafted in as a wild branch. Most of the new testament speaks of the Israel of God as opposed to Israel of the flesh. Most of the new testament speaks of the Israel of God as opposed to the Israel of the flesh. Romans 2:28-29 speaks of spiritual Israel. It's very important to understand this concept if you're gonna understand the new covenant. Remember the new covenant is made with the household of Israel. If you're not of the household then you're out.

No, the new covenant is made through faith and extended to Jew and Gentile alike with no partiality. God is not putting new wine in old wineskins. We are the body of Christ, not Israel, either spiritual or physical.

You also said "if you're not of the household then you're out." We're not part of a household just because we make up a new term such as "spiritual Israel" and go around telling people we're in it. That means nothing.

It's absolutely crucial to understanding the New Testament to understand the difference in N.T. scriptures between the three groups: the Jew, the Church (the body of Christ), and the lost. All three are addressed, all three have parts in the plan, and all three are separate entities to a certain extent. When Scripture says "he is a Jew who is one inwardly" he isn't trying to say that you are a Jew because you think you have a new cleansed heart. If you are saved in the covenant of grace, you are a member of the body of Christ, a new work not revealed in the Old Testament times.

God will continue His plans for Israel as well and will fulfill all the prophecies yet to be fulfilled regarding them just as literally as He has thus far fulfilled all prophecies literally. You cannot understand New Testament Scripture without correctly understanding this distinction.

H.

 

[k4c]

No, the new covenant is made through faith and extended to Jew and Gentile alike with no partiality. God is not putting new wine in old wineskins. We are the body of Christ, not Israel, either spiritual or physical.

You also said "if you're not of the household then you're out." We're not part of a household just because we make up a new term such as "spiritual Israel" and go around telling people we're in it. That means nothing.

It's absolutely crucial to understanding the New Testament to understand the difference in N.T. scriptures between the three groups: the Jew, the Church (the body of Christ), and the lost. All three are addressed, all three have parts in the plan, and all three are separate entities to a certain extent. When Scripture says "he is a Jew who is one inwardly" he isn't trying to say that you are a Jew because you think you have a new cleansed heart. If you are saved in the covenant of grace, you are a member of the body of Christ, a new work not revealed in the Old Testament times.

God will continue His plans for Israel as well and will fulfill all the prophecies yet to be fulfilled regarding them just as literally as He has thus far fulfilled all prophecies literally. You cannot understand New Testament Scripture without correctly understanding this distinction.

H.

Hebrews 8:8, 8:10

You have to be grafted in like a wild olive branch.

 

[visionary]

Hebrews 8:8, 8:10

You have to be grafted in like a wild olive branch.

wild... good identification.. it is all over the place.

 

[numlock321]

have you noticed "ordinances,which was contrary to us"? ... now since you dont believe sabbath in the new covenant...

here is a strong evidence that Christ came not to destroy the law


Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

now noticed verse 5:18

since we now that the earth and heavens are still here the above verse 5:17 is re enforced.. the Sabbath was not contrary to the new covenant. the Sabbath was a Memorial of Gods creation and to let us now also that there is God who Created all things.!

 

[numlock321]

"taken from The sabbath truth"

When some read in the New Testament about sabbath days that were shadows of the body of Christ and that passed away at the cross, they become confused and declare they mean the weekly Sabbath. They do greatly err and lead many uninformed people into error. Let us turn to Colossians 2:14-17 and read about the abolition of these sabbath days that were in the law and that enjoined meat offerings, drink offerings, new moons, and festivals: "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; ... let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holyday [a feast day, A.S.V.], or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days, which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."

There was nothing in the Ten Commandment law about meats, drinks, new moons, sabbath days (plural), or feast days. All these were in the law which the Lord told Moses to command to the people. The weekly Sabbath is not mentioned in these texts. Paul says plainly that he is speaking of "sabbath days which are a shadow of things to come," and not of the weekly Sabbath which was a memorial of something that happened in the past at creation.

The fourth commandment does not tell us to keep the seventh day as a type of something to come. It says: "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. ... For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."

There is all the difference in the world between a typical shadow and a memorial. A shadow points forward, and a memorial points backward. The contrast is as distinct as that between night and day. And to show that He never had the weekly Sabbath in mind, the Holy Spirit distinctly mentioned "sabbath days which are a shadow of things to come." Of course the word "days" in this text (Colossians 2:14-17) is supplied, but this is justified by the fact that the word "sabbath" in the Greek is in the plural. Anyone may confirm this by consulting any Greek lexicon.

The King James Version uses the word "holyday," and some may content that it means "the weekly Sabbath" and the expression "sabbath days" means "the yearly sabbaths." The American Standard Version uses "feast day" instead of "holyday." This is correct. For the word translated "holyday" here is from the Greek hoerte, and in John 5:1 this word is used to designate one of the yearly festivals of the Jews: "After this there was a feast [hoerte] of the Jews; and Jesus went up to Jerusalem."

This is one of the holy days that Paul spoke of as having been abolished. Thus do the evidences multiply that it is absolutely wrong to tell people that these verse prove that the weekly Sabbath was abolished. We should further observe that "shadows" point to Jesus as a Saviour from sin and we observed with that in mind. But the weekly Sabbath was made for man before sin ever entered into the world. The shadows pointing forward to His death as an atonement for sin certainly were not instituted until after sin. But the Lord's rest day existed before man needed atoning blood to save him from his guilt. Now since the weekly Sabbath was instituted before sin, just as was the marriage institution, it was not a shadow of Christ's death as a Saviour from sin; and His death never brought it to an end any more than it brought the marriage institution to an end. Both institutions came to us from the sinless Garden of Eden.

Paul's very language to the Christians at Colosse proves he had reference to the shadowy ceremonies which pointed forward to and ended at the cross. Notice carefully his words in Colossians 2:14: "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross."

As plain as he can make it, Paul declares they were "ordinances" that were nailed to the cross. They were ordinances that would be "contrary" to the faith of Christians to observe. In fact he declares that the observance of these would be "against us." Now for the use of some good common sense. Would it be contrary to Christian faith and practice and against Christian principle to refrain from idolatry, profanity, Sabbath desecration, dishonoring parents, murder, theft, adultery, lying, and coveting? How could it be "contrary" to Christian principle and "against us" to refrain from the immoralities and vices condemned by the Ten Commandments? How unreasonable to think that Paul was arguing thus! He was talking of another law which enjoined meat offerings, drink offerings, the observance of feasts, new moons, and yearly sabbaths.

 

[ricker]

I belong to spiritual Israel that is why I keep the Sabbath!

Why keep a literal sabbath if you are spiritual Israel? (especially since it is never commanded you). Celebrate a spiritual sabbath (rest) from your works in Jesus.

 

[k4c]

Why keep a literal sabbath if you are spiritual Israel? (especially since it is never commanded you). Celebrate a spiritual sabbath (rest) from your works in Jesus.

We are to worship God in spirit and in truth.

 

[ChrisCarol]

We are to worship God in spirit and in truth.

That would be:

John 14:6
Jesus *said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.


John 1:14
[ The Word Made Flesh ] And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 1:17
For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.
John 4:22-24



John 4:22-24

22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.




Romans 2:29



29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Philippians 3:3



3For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

John 8:45
But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me.

 

[k4c]

That would be:

John 14:6
Jesus *said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.


John 1:14
[ The Word Made Flesh ] And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 1:17
For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.
John 4:22-24



John 4:22-24

22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.




Romans 2:29



29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Philippians 3:3



3For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

John 8:45
But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me.

You show me your faith by what you say I'll show you my faith by what I do. Faith without works is dead.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Why keep a literal sabbath if you are spiritual Israel? (especially since it is never commanded you). Celebrate a spiritual sabbath (rest) from your works in Jesus.

Ricker, you never responded to the scripture I provided in post #56. Doesn't that show that the stranger (gentile) was blessed by keeping the Sababth the same as the Israelite and therefore under the same covenant promise?